Triss vs Yennefer [NOW WITH SPOILERS. Oh, well.]

[Charcharo]

Allow me to disagree here. Objectivity must be based on "hard" facts. Numbers are great for this. One number could be dates and which came out first, so in that case you would be correct. However, if you consider the number of people who played the games and never read the books and viceversa, then it is clear for most people the Witcher series is a "gaming" franchise.

That is not a good argument. The downfall of our society is already happening.

Books are getting niche. A book will almost NEVER even COME CLOSE to a video game right now.

It is a SAD fact. But a fact nonetheless. A writer, even if he/she were divine, cant equal to a video game or a movie in 2015. They just cant.

And that is bad.

As for popularity... I dont like that. Do you know how tiny Witcher is compared to some games out there?

World of Tanks has more players playing at this moment than Witcher 1 and Witcher 2 sold combined in a few years. Wargaming can buy CDPR and the franchise and probably recoup the cost in a week...
And there are (only very few) companies even bigger than them.

RPGs are a small niche genre when compared to the big picture that is gaming. Witcher is not even top dog in its small pond. Popularity is not what we as a community should consider to be something given....

 

[Hungry_Lion]

How / When does Triss take advantage of Geralt? This is not my attempt to defending a character but just my curiousity in the lore.

In the books she corners him right after he and Yen have a big argument and he was feeling hurt. She uses magic to help her seduce him and then sleeps with him. Keep in mind that she didn't even love him at this point, she was just curious to see what Yen liked about him so it was a really crappy thing to do.

In the games there's the whole amnesia thing which was just shady as hell. She found him with no memory in the first game and convinced him that she was the sorceress in his life.

 

[Christopherrolf]

Concerning the 'Yen is a bitch' argument:

I went with Yennefer on my first playthrough due to her and Geralt's past. At first I also found her too bitchy, she was entertaining to a degree but she could get on my nerves. But as you progress there's a lot more nuance to her character, especially towards the ending. A lot of it is just posturing anyway, she acts lovingly towards Ciri, respectful towards Emhyr, and tender towards Geralt (increasingly so if he romances her) . She isn't a Morrigan-esque character that can only act with contempt and sarcasm to everything and everyone crossing her path.

Most of her bitchy facade towards Geralt is her sense of humour, which is made clear in many scenes, it's part of their role play and he is happy to play along. You can find it annoying or humorous - I mostly find it humorous. Geralt will take control when it matters.
Maternal instinct and a sense of urgency also plays a part in her aloof and no-nonsense demeanor, as she seems to be the only character whom (mostly) shows consistency in taking the main quest seriously.

She isn't entirely sympathetic, but personality flaws makes interesting characters.

 

[DepressedPerson]

Concerning the 'Yen is a bitch' argument:

I went with Yennefer on my first playthrough due to her and Geralt's past. At first I also found her too bitchy, she was entertaining to a degree but she could get on my nerves. But as you progress there's a lot more nuance to her character, especially towards the ending. A lot of it is just posturing anyway, she acts lovingly towards Ciri, respectful towards Emhyr, and tender towards Geralt (increasingly so if he romances her) . She isn't a Morrigan-esque character that can only act with contempt and sarcasm to everything and everyone crossing her path.

Most of her bitchy facade towards Geralt is her sense of humour, which is made clear in many scenes, it's part of their role play and he is happy to play along. You can find it annoying or humorous - I mostly find it humorous. Geralt will take control when it matters.
Maternal instinct and a sense of urgency also plays a part in her aloof and no-nonsense demeanor, as she seems to be the only character whom (mostly) shows consistency in taking the main quest seriously.

She isn't entirely sympathetic, but personality flaws makes interesting characters.

Great comment. I think criticisms that "Yen is a bitch" are quite superficial, and that a good game has interesting characters. Indeed character creation and development is something that really shines through in this game. Yen has a unique personality. She's not a "goody two-shoes" Cinderella-type princess who is submissive to Geralt. As you said, she has personality flaws, just like real people. Triss is also unique, but I think that she's much more nicer and pleasant compared to Yennefer. Personally from my own perspective, I prefer Triss. It's just my personality. But Geralt and Yennefer are meant to be together, I think, just like yin and yang.

 

[OutgoingHermit]

She isn't entirely sympathetic, but personality flaws makes interesting characters.

Yeah. Yennefer is a really well written character in the stories, and to just say "Well she's a bitch" is really missing the point. But it's a real stretch to say that her attitude is mostly just posturing. She's a very strong, intelligent and resolved person, but at the same time, she really doesn't have any respect for other people or their feelings/beliefs. Stuff like destroying the Garden, going behind Ermion's back, etc. is reminiscent of stuff from the stories like mind-controlling Geralt to have him beat up some guys who called her a tramp (their first meeting) or the whole dragon dilemma.

In the books and the games, all of the characters reveal through their actions that they fail consistently by the measure of at least one of the classic cardinal virtues. Geralt lacks prudence, Yennefer lacks justice, and Triss lacks courage. Scare crow, tin man, lion. I also think that's why Triss winds up being a more sympathetic character for a lot of (most?) people, even though both women do things that the reader/player thinks are unethical or just plain lousy. Most of us are willing to admit that we don't always have the courage to stand up and do what's right, but nobody wants to think (or admit) that they just aren't interested in acting justly.

 

[dksaj]

I picked Triss solely because of that DLC dress. Holy shit does that look good.

 

[Krull32]

I picked Triss solely because of that DLC dress. Holy shit does that look good.

hehe, fine feathers make fine birds

 

[Christopherrolf]

Yeah. Yennefer is a really well written character in the stories, and to just say "Well she's a bitch" is really missing the point. But it's a real stretch to say that her attitude is mostly just posturing. She's a very strong, intelligent and resolved person, but at the same time, she really doesn't have any respect for other people or their feelings/beliefs. Stuff like destroying the Garden, going behind Ermion's back, etc. is reminiscent of stuff from the stories like mind-controlling Geralt to have him beat up some guys who called her a tramp (their first meeting) or the whole dragon dilemma.

In the books and the games, all of the characters reveal through their actions that they fail consistently by the measure of at least one of the classic cardinal virtues. Geralt lacks prudence, Yennefer lacks justice, and Triss lacks courage. Scare crow, tin man, lion. I also think that's why Triss winds up being a more sympathetic character for a lot of (most?) people, even though both women do things that the reader/player thinks are unethical or just plain lousy. Most of us are willing to admit that we don't always have the courage to stand up and do what's right, but nobody wants to think (or admit) that they just aren't interested in acting justly.

I didn't write that 'it's mostly just posturing' but 'a lot of it is just posturing', it's a fine line but the latter conveys my meaning better. And the context was her interaction with the other main characters. That Yennefer lacks justice should be a truism.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I picked Triss solely because of that DLC dress. Holy shit does that look good.

---------- Updated at 06:09 PM ----------

Geralt lacks prudence, Yennefer lacks justice, and Triss lacks courage.

I'd say Yen's biggest flaw is that she lacks some basic aspects of empathy. A lacking feel for justice is just a symptom of that.

I agree with the other two although I would add lacking self-awareness in Geralt's case and the lack of principle in Triss' case.

 

[OptoNick]

Geralt lacks prudence, Yennefer lacks justice, and Triss lacks courage.

I want to loosely cite words of Marcin Blacha, lead writer at CDPR, which could also be applied to the books: "it's a game about emotionally handicapped people"

 

[wichat]

I want to loosely cite words of Marcin Blacha, lead writer at CDPR, which could also be applied to the books: "it's a game about emotionally handicapped people"

As All of us...

 

[kojac1984]

Not once can he disagree with her, not once he could he say no he likes witchering. Same situation triss says if you want i could drop the entire Kovir thing. Thank you for proving my point.

You prefer the proverbial ball buster good for you, just not everyone likes that.

Oh regarding the books my introduction to the franchise was the games as well.

You know why he practically can not deny the proposal? Because it was always the dream of Geralt, since the beginning of the relationship, which always caused the separation was the fact that she want to live in the city and be part of policy. Geralt always hated the city and politics. She always said he could do a Witcher work but he always fled.


For the final with Triss it does the same thing he always escaped while with Yennefer during the relationship.

 

[0nakita]

She uses magic to help her seduce him and then sleeps with him.

She used a little magic - like aphrodiziac. And at that moment Geralt needed someone, 'cos he was hurt, and Triss helped to calm a heartpain.
And how You know from books it wasn't a seduce Geralt loves women and it's easy to get in his bed. You need more than to hands to count all women that was with him.:drunk:

In the games there's the whole amnesia thing which was just shady as hell. She found him with no memory in the first game and convinced him that she was the sorceress in his life.

It was Trissefer not Triss. :disgust:

 

[kojac1984]

She used a little magic - like aphrodiziac. And at that moment Geralt needed someone, 'cos he was hurt, and Triss helped to calm a heartpain.
And how You know from books it wasn't a seduce Geralt loves women and it's easy to get in his bed. You need more than to hands to count all women that was with him.

It says nothing of aphrodisiac ... that's the idea of fan service.




Another is so easy that when she arrived at Kaer Morhen, she already arrived investing in it and he refused promptly. And it was all in refusing advances.

 

[0nakita]

It says nothing of aphrodisiac ... that's the idea of fan service.

In book says - with a little magic, so it wasn't so hard to get in his bed.

 

[kojac1984]

In book says - with a little magic, so it wasn't so hard to get in his bed.

little magic can be anything.


It is so easy that she could not take it normally.

 

[MsTriss]

She used a little magic - like aphrodiziac. And at that moment Geralt needed someone, 'cos he was hurt, and Triss helped to calm a heartpain.
And how You know from books it wasn't a seduce Geralt loves women and it's easy to get in his bed. You need more than

She didn't use the magic to seduce Geralt, she used the magic to somehow provoke and start the fight between them or to calm him after (Triss doesn't need magic to seduce anyone) for all we know, that little help of magic could've been the spell she uses to undress herself.

 

[kojac1984]

She didn't use the magic to seduce Geralt, she used the magic to somehow provoke and start the fight between them (Triss doesn't need magic to seduce anyone)

I'm sorry but she even said he used.


And you know why it's easy to sleep with another woman? because not is someone next to them. More Triss is next as friend and friend of the woman he loves.

 

[MsTriss]

I'm sorry but she even said he used.

Who's "he"? Are you referring to Geralt?

And you know why it's easy to sleep with another woman? because not is someone next to them. More Triss is next as friend and friend of the woman he loves.

Spoiler

Triss had watched them both and was jealous even though it seemed there was little to be jealous of. Their relationship quite obviously made them both unhappy, had led straight to destruction, pain and yet, against all logic… it had lasted. Triss couldn’t understand it. And it had fascinated her. It had fascinated her to such an extent that… …she had seduced the witcher – with the help of a little magic. She had hit on a propitious moment, a moment when he and Yennefer had scratched at each other’s eyes yet again and had abruptly parted. Geralt had needed warmth, and had wanted to forget. No, Triss had not desired to take him away from Yennefer. As a matter of fact, her friend was more important to her than he was. But her brief relationship with the witcher had not disappointed. She had found what she was looking for – emotions in the form of guilt, anxiety and pain. His pain. She had experienced his emotions, it had excited her and, when they parted, she had been unable to forget it. And she had only recently understood what pain is.

Spot on. Exactly what I wanted to say! Too bad they keep fighting all the time though (Referring to Geralt and Yennefer) he wouldn't have considered "other options" if their relationship was any better. Plus, Yennefer knows no shame, she slept with Geralt, the next day she slept with Istredd and even later on the second day she slept with Istredd again.

I'd say, they had a "flexible" relationship.

 

[ccchong187]

She didn't use the magic to seduce Geralt, she used the magic to somehow provoke and start the fight between them (Triss doesn't need magic to seduce anyone)

Except perhaps Síle de Tansarville.

Yeah, she definitely seduced Geralt with magic.

Spoiler

Triss couldn't understand it. And it had fascinated her. It had fascinated her to such an extent that... she had seduced the witcher - with the help of a little magic. She had hit on a propitious moment, a moment when he and Yennefer had scratched at each other's eyes yet again and had abruptly parted. Geralt had needed warmth, and had wanted to forget.