But not to that extent, sure some cyberware is mandatory like neck chip slot or that jack in your hand, but rest should be totally optional, also why they scrap humanity and cyberpsychosis from the game?
In the end you will turn in another Adam Jensen who will have access to all cyberware he want with no side effect and cons.
But not to that extent, sure some cyberware is mandatory like neck chip slot or that jack in your hand, but rest should be totally optional, also why they scrap humanity and cyberpsychosis from the game?
In the end you will turn in another Adam Jensen who will have access to all cyberware he want with no side effect and cons.
but you don't, you can't go full conversion borg or anything like that. they probably abandoned it after they found none of the mods they where going to include would ever get your score low enough for it to matter.
Never mind that calling someone with augments "less human" is fucking grim.
Referring to our previous discussion in that other thread... This is an example of narrative sacrificing gameplay. Not in a ”major” way, but nonetheless. An interesting gameplay prospect through a genuinely unique characterbuild is gone because the narrative demands a chip in your head (and a ghost). And I’m not sure if it’ll be ultimately for the better.
In that case, I'm right there with you. The only real point I was getting at in those discussions is such sacrifices have the potential to apply in either direction.
In regards to this thread.... I wouldn't consider a person less human for augmenting themselves with technology. As an example, a soldier returning from war and being equipped with a prosthetic leg or arm due to an injury isn't magically less of a "true" person. After all, when you really get down to it in technical terms "human" is a reference to human beings, aka homo sapiens, or the species. A human missing an arm or leg is still a human. Replacing the lost limb with an artificial one doesn't really change that. Particularly because one of the defining characteristics of "humans" is tool use and artificial enhancement, in some capacity or another (this is not to say things like tool use are unique to people, it's more meant to convey we're better at it in many ways relative to other animals and it's kind of critical to our survival...).
None of this is to say "humanity" loss wouldn't be a real possibility from artificial enhancement. I just think this view point gets applied a bit too liberally. Bob changed his arm. Oh my, how will he ever deal with the loss of his humanity? Yeah... no....
I'd also add it would probably be uncommon for a person to avoid various ubiquitous technologies. Especially for a person in V's line of work. Yes, it would be preferable to pick and choose how deep the player character enters the self-augmentation route with cyberware. it's understandable if the player character is unable to avoid it entirely though.
but you don't, you can't go full conversion borg or anything like that. they probably abandoned it after they found none of the mods they where going to include would ever get your score low enough for it to matter.
Never mind that calling someone with augments "less human" is fucking grim.
In that case, I'm right there with you. The only real point I was getting at in those discussions is such sacrifices have the potential to apply in either direction.
In regards to this thread.... I wouldn't consider a person less human for augmenting themselves with technology. As an example, a soldier returning from war and being equipped with a prosthetic leg or arm due to an injury isn't magically less of a "true" person. After all, when you really get down to it in technical terms "human" is a reference to human beings, aka homo sapiens, or the species. A human missing an arm or leg is still a human. Replacing the lost limb with an artificial one doesn't really change that. Particularly because one of the defining characteristics of "humans" is tool use and artificial enhancement, in some capacity or another (this is not to say things like tool use are unique to people, it's more meant to convey we're better at it in many ways relative to other animals and it's kind of critical to our survival...).
None of this is to say "humanity" loss wouldn't be a real possibility from artificial enhancement. I just think this view point gets applied a bit too liberally. Bob changed his arm. Oh my, how will he ever deal with the loss of his humanity? Yeah... no....
I'd also add it would probably be uncommon for a person to avoid various ubiquitous technologies. Especially for a person in V's line of work. Yes, it would be preferable to pick and choose how deep the player character enters the self-augmentation route with cyberware. it's understandable if the player character is unable to avoid it entirely though.
I just wanna point the fact that C2077 is the videogame adaptation of C2020, and that humanity loss is the result of that fact: in cyberpunk 2020 getting cyber change (possibly a lot) your perspective and that's just it.
Arguing against that because of logic would mean that the game is supposed to follow that logic, which it doesn't.
but you don't, you can't go full conversion borg or anything like that. they probably abandoned it after they found none of the mods they where going to include would ever get your score low enough for it to matter.
Probably more they didn't want to try to deal with what happens when your character goes cyberpsycho.
Because let's be honest, a LARGE percentage of players will get every piece of cyberware available then even if warned complain when their character goes bonkers and they can't control their psychotic mass murderer.
Empathy skill can go at 10max, then it makes 100humanity points, he was correct (unless they went of from the original rules and worked something else).
Probably more they didn't want to try to deal with what happens when your character goes cyberpsycho.
Because let's be honest, a LARGE percentage of players will get every piece of cyberware available then even if warned complain when their character goes bonkers and they can't control their psychotic mass murderer.
I don't think so, it could be a cool feature.
Your screen glitching as your character starts to shoot at random etc...
People aren't that dumb, nobody ever complained about frenzies in Vampire's games, it works kinda the same.
It's either that:
They didn't found an actual fun way of doing it/ hadn't the ressources to make it.
Or just that they want to strictly focus on the story and so... You don't want Psycho-Patrick doing some cyber rampage and screwing the storyline at some crucial moments.
The fact it's very heavy on narration kinda cut the psychosis out, I feel the game will be pretty "guided" and "scripted" (story wise), like Fallout 4
Worth noting: very very few PCs in Cyberpunk 2020 go psycho. They can see it on their stats - and Ripperdocs have a vested interest in making sure you don't go nuts.
It acts as a caution/limit and also as a Dark Future theme, but players, with only one life to live and a Team to help them, rarely go psycho.
Rarely, but not impossible. You still need to take into account the player losing his character - it's typically character death. Having that happen is rarely a small thing in a story.
I don't think CDPR could find a way to integrate it into V's story in a fun way. Simply put, V wouldn't reasonably go psycho, any more than a player would.
I just wanna point the fact that C2077 is the videogame adaptation of C2020, and that humanity loss is the result of that fact: in cyberpunk 2020 getting cyber change (possibly a lot) your perspective and that's just it.
Rarely, but not impossible. You still need to take into account the player losing his character - it's typically character death. Having that happen is rarely a small thing in a story.
I don't think CDPR could find a way to integrate it into V's story in a fun way. Simply put, V wouldn't reasonably go psycho, any more than a player would.
I have always been of the same opinion. HOWEVER, I think it would be great if there was some negative effect associated to (besides your bank balance) for heavy cybernetization.
I just wanna point the fact that C2077 is the videogame adaptation of C2020, and that humanity loss is the result of that fact: in cyberpunk 2020 getting cyber change (possibly a lot) your perspective and that's just it.
Arguing against that because of logic would mean that the game is supposed to follow that logic, which it doesn't.
I wouldn't dare to dispute any of this . It's clear humanity loss is an important element in the CP stratosphere. It's also clear cyberware plays a large role there. We're talking a hypothetical, futuristic world here. There are any number of ways to tie modification of a person via cyberware to humanity loss from a logical perspective. For instance, you could say it leads to those results due to the way the cyberware is integrated with the person in the hypothetical, futuristic world. It was more of a general statement.
Let me put it this way.... In Deus EX MD there is a lot of aug hate going around. In that game you could easily argue most of it was founded in blind fear mongering. Yeah, the augs went off the rails. It was not because they were augs. It was because someone did something malicious to make it happen. Augs were merely the tool to get the result. The real culprit there was the people responsible for the "incident".
Obviously, Deus EX isn't CP. The fact remains unless there is a concrete reason for enhanced people ending up subject to new behavior from the enhancement, on a psychological level, the issue of human vs less human is not really about the technology at all. It's more about how people have a tendency to judge, criticize and direct hate toward things they identify as different or do not understand. Even if there is a functional reason for the behavioral change, exploring the topic likely has as much to do with this tendency as the technology itself.
I really hope there will be augments that don't alter our look in any meaningful way.
Stuff like nanomesh woven through our skin making it more resilient while not altering our look.
Or gene-therapy that strengthens our muscles, but doesn't replace them.
I am completely in for bio-aug for this origin story, relying on genetics (and mutations (hint hint)).
With the NIK (AR interface that shares animations with the regular basic cyberware but also fits within the purist lore)
This faction as a whole is themed around doing what all augs do, without the actual implants.
What I have in mind is nothing Amish like, more like people using alternative tech.
Besides, the world in 2077 has no actual internet and everyone is relying on local networks, our character can come from a nomad clan that focuses on old world tech, has no implants, has muscle-fiber bioenhacners (gene theraphy) from 2050 or something and their focus is pushing our own evolution further trough such methods. Bone-thickening calcium injections and bone micro-breakdown in order to strengthen the tissue and get to let's say STR of 6 without implants.
They deem implants as something that weakens you and saps you of your natural strength due to your reliance on them.
Would be a pretty cool alternative playstile I think.
I mean we have the Animals who are stim junkines, why not have a bio faction that looks on implants as something that saps us of our humanity and natural evolution (even tough in 2077 they have become our natural evolution)
Obviously, Deus EX isn't CP. The fact remains unless there is a concrete reason for enhanced people ending up subject to new behavior from the enhancement, on a psychological level, the issue of human vs less human is not really about the technology at all. It's more about how people have a tendency to judge, criticize and direct hate toward things they identify as different or do not understand. Even if there is a functional reason for the behavioral change, exploring the topic likely has as much to do with this tendency as the technology itself.
@Watche_Doge I expect to meet at least one faction that rely on bio techs rather than cyber techs. But somehow I don't think that V will get the chance to be enhanced that way.
The fact remains unless there is a concrete reason for enhanced people ending up subject to new behavior from the enhancement, on a psychological level
That's C2020 position actually: Cyberpsychosis.
My only C2020 book, the core manual, doesn't extend over it's cause, just saying "When you start adding metal and plastic to people they start to change and it isn't pretty".
It is an effect linked to how C2020 world works, and C2020 world isn't really like reality, that's just it.
. It's clear humanity loss is an important element in the CP stratosphere. It's also clear cyberware plays a large role there. We're talking a hypothetical, futuristic world here. There are any number of ways to tie modification of a person via cyberware to humanity loss from a logical perspective. For instance, you could say it leads to those results due to the way the cyberware is integrated with the person in the hypothetical, futuristic world. It was more of a general statement.
