[TW2] The Problem with Invisible Tooltips

[Kindo.824]

[TW2] The Problem with Invisible Tooltips

Greetings,

One thing I have struggled with for a long time, as an amateur modder, is the issue of certain tooltips on items being invisible. Most (if not all) of these do show up when inspecting an item via a diagram or formula in the in-game journal; in there, all bonuses and penalties of an item show up in their entirety, while if you inspect the items themselves in your inventory, many of these are nowhere to be seen. This causes a problem especially for me, whose mod relies heavily on item re-balancing and tweaking; many of the bonuses (or penalties) I would like to add to a certain item, will go by unnoticed by anyone else, as the tooltips don't have them properly documented.

This is a bug (or several) that has been in the game since version 1.0, as far as I can tell, and rather than fixing this bug, version 3.0 (Enhanced Edition) seems to have accidentally hidden more tooltips that previously showed up as they were meant to (the ones I'm thinking of here are Bomb damage multiplier and Trap damage multiplier - I can almost swear that these showed up on items in 2.0). This is not only for "custom" items and "custom" bonuses that may not be available in a vanilla version of the game, as I have found certain attributes present on the default items, that simply won't show up in-game. The most commonly-known of these are the potions; almost all potions have a plethora of bonuses and penalties that you cannot possibly know, unless you inspect their respective formulas, first, in the journal.

What can we do about this? Well, there must be something missing in certain files - something that governs what tooltips will show up, and what they will look like. Since at least two previously-working tooltips were broken in the 3.0 update, it makes me believe that this can indeed be fixed, somehow, somewhere; only, I don't know how. Where in the game files would we start looking? I remember Lautreamont modified the tooltips of Geralt's skills for his Better Combat mod, so maybe they reside in there?

I don't know if I have the proper tools to start digging in .w2strings files, however, so for now, I thought I'd just keep notes here of confirmed "hidden" tooltips. In-game wording first, then game-file resource names in brackets. One more thing: I'm running the game with English text, and if this is related to the .w2strings files, it's possible the results are not the same in other localisations.

• Bomb damage multiplier (petards_damage_mult)
• Trap damage multiplier (traps_damage_mult)
• Throw damage multiplier (damage_throw_combo)
• Damage dealt when counterattacking (riposte_damage_mult)
• Damage dealt while attacking from behind (hit_back_bonus)
• Vigor loss when blocking (endurance_on_block_mult)
• Aard critical effects chance (aard_knockdown_chance)
• Chance of incinerating foe with Igni Sign (igni_burn_chance)

[I have many potions to investigate before adding their respective missing tooltips to the list, so I'll get back to that once I've had the chance to acquire them all in-game.]

 

[Presskohle]

Could you provide me with a savegame where you have these items (+formulas) in question in your inventory?

 

[Kindo.824]

Could you provide me with a savegame where you have these items (+formulas) in question in your inventory?

I'll see what I can do, tomorrow. I don't have all these items available in my current playthrough, but I should be able to work something out if you want to inspect them, yourself.

 

[Presskohle]

I don't need all items, just one of every category.

And for w2strings files, you need Gibbed RED Tools - I have the latest build (21-04-2012) if you need it, the one from the nexus is from last august afair.

 

[Kindo.824]

I don't need all items, just one of every category.

Would it be acceptable if I modded an item to carry all of these bonuses? Sounds simpler, but I'm not sure what you're planning, so I thought I'd ask.

And for w2strings files, you need Gibbed RED Tools - I have the latest build (21-04-2012) if you need it, the one from the nexus is from last august afair.

Ah, a newer version of RED Tools allow for unpacking of w2strings? Sounds super!

 

[Corylea.723]

And for w2strings files, you need Gibbed RED Tools - I have the latest build (21-04-2012) if you need it, the one from the nexus is from last august afair.

Can you post a link to the source for the latest RED Tools? Thanks!

 

[Presskohle]

Would it be acceptable if I modded an item to carry all of these bonuses? Sounds simpler, but I'm not sure what you're planning, so I thought I'd ask.

It's ok, I already had a proper save.

Ah, a newer version of RED Tools allow for unpacking of w2strings? Sounds super!

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yhnrtxan5z9fy8q

Can you post a link to the source for the latest RED Tools? Thanks!

https://github.com/yole/Gibbed.RED
You need to compile it yourself though, the author only posts the source code.

 

[Kindo.824]

It's ok, I already had a proper save.

Alright, no problem. I experimented a bit, myself, anyway; added all those stats listed above to a piece of armour, as well as a potion, and procured both items as well as their schematics. The tooltip of the items does not show either bonus, but they are all very nicely documented if I inspect the schematics in the journal.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yhnrtxan5z9fy8q

Thank you!

 

[Corylea.723]

I'm moving this to the Modder's Workshop sub-section, since that's where topics about how to mod -- as opposed to topics announcing finished mods -- are supposed to go.

 

[Presskohle]

I looked a little bit into your problem, kindo.

before:
http://i.imgur.com/oDNRj.jpg

after:
http://i.imgur.com/NamIu.jpg

First, I thought there is some kind of a filter within ctooltip in place - there is, but just for Damage/Armor and coloring purposes. The journal entry was not helpful either, it just makes an external interface call, directed to the localized strings (searched by key & Formulae); your values where simply not on the Recipe Effects/Items Abilities List.

So, simple answer: just add them to \globals\attribute_types.csv
http://i.imgur.com/fNqHl.jpg

Hope that helps.

best regards,
pk

 

[Kindo.824]

I looked a little bit into your problem, kindo.

before:
http://i.imgur.com/oDNRj.jpg

after:
http://i.imgur.com/NamIu.jpg

First, I thought there is some kind of a filter within ctooltip in place - there is, but just for Damage/Armor and coloring purposes. The journal entry was not helpful either, it just makes an external interface call, directed to the localized strings (searched by key & Formulae); your values where simply not on the Recipe Effects/Items Abilities List.

So, simple answer: just add them to \globals\attribute_types.csv
http://i.imgur.com/fNqHl.jpg

Hope that helps.

best regards,
pk

Oh, wow! I'll see what I can do, but let me thank you right away. It's a problem that's been around for quite some time, and to finally be on the right track to fixing them... it's amazing.

One has to wonder, though, how this oversight came to be, over at CDPR.

EDIT: Super! Simply adding them to the .csv file, as you so eloquently described, is enough to make the tooltips to turn visible, and I'm very grateful you found a solution. The only thing is that "Vigor loss when blocking (endurance_on_block_mult)" and "Backstab damage multiplier (back_damage_mult)" are coded to show up as red in the tooltips, as if they were penalties, when of course, they're not supposed to be. I've checked this with the bonuses added, and yes, when set correctly, they are beneficial. You mentioned that you came across colour-coding in the ctooltip.swf file, so I'm guessing there might be something one can do in there, but I wouldn't know. This is a different matter, really, but I'd still like to ask what your program of choice is for editing such files.

 

[Presskohle]

One has to wonder, though, how this oversight came to be, over at CDPR.

For 2 reasons, I think it was intentional. First, they describe those hidden effects vaguely in the short description and second..

The only thing is that "Vigor loss when blocking (endurance_on_block_mult)" and "Backstab damage multiplier (back_damage_mult)" are coded to show up as red in the tooltips, as if they were penalties, when of course, they're not supposed to be. I've checked this with the bonuses added, and yes, when set correctly, they are beneficial.

..because those are -by the games logic- "negative" values (100 or 1.0 is the base). We could change the color-coding, but in the process, it would f* up every "real" negative effect because the game makes no difference.

This is a different matter, really, but I'd still like to ask what your program of choice is for editing such files.

I use Flare, Flasm, SwiX and a proper Text Editor (Notepad++ is free & popular, I'm using EditPlus).

 

[Kindo.824]

For 2 reasons, I think it was intentional. First, they describe those hidden effects vaguely in the short description and second..

The only thing is that "Vigor loss when blocking (endurance_on_block_mult)" and "Backstab damage multiplier (back_damage_mult)" are coded to show up as red in the tooltips, as if they were penalties, when of course, they're not supposed to be. I've checked this with the bonuses added, and yes, when set correctly, they are beneficial.

..because those are -by the games logic- "negative" values (100 or 1.0 is the base). We could change the color-coding, but in the process, it would f* up every "real" negative effect because the game makes no difference.

Yes, I thought about that, as well. The weird part is that some of these bonuses were visible in earlier versions of the game (Bomb and Trap damage), while both those and others I listed, are still applied on vanilla versions of certain equipment; if they figured the tooltips were too vague, and decided to hide them away, why not also change the equipment that has these bonuses? The problem with the negative values is something else, of course. As you say, removing the red would do the same for the penalties you do want to show up in red. Hmm... :/

I use Flare, Flasm, SwiX and a proper Text Editor (Notepad++ is free & popular, I'm using EditPlus).

Thanks.

 

[Presskohle]

I don't know why they changed it. Maybe by mistake, maybe to avoid cluttering the tooltip.

The problem with the negative values is something else, of course. As you say, removing the red would do the same for the penalties you do want to show up in red. Hmm... :/

I didn't fiddle much around those .xml files, but what caught my interest, was this value:

Do you know what it does?

 

[Kindo.824]

I didn't fiddle much around those .xml files, but what caught my interest, was this value:
Do you know what it does?

Yes, if mult is set to true, it specifies that the values that follow are to be considered a multiplier of an already-existing value. In this case, it will raise the already-existing incineration chance by 15% (a multiplier of 1.15) - it will not add 15%, but increase (or decrease) the value that is already there. It's useful for things you don't want to increase something that the player doesn't already have, but to improve on one they do have.