TW3 Combat. CDPR folks, read please. Hope it reaches you.

[ungvaar]

TW3 Combat. CDPR folks, read please. Hope it reaches you.

Greetings.
As all the Witcher fans, I am thrilled with the announcement of TW3. Here's some general idea you may find interesting. Just 2 things:

1) A good combat system is defined as such, that allows the player to defeat nearly any foe without getting any damage IF the player is awesome. An example of such combat system is Gothic 2, Dark Messiah of M&M and Dishonored. Even an unskilled character ('unskilled' is a word that can't really be used when talking about witchers though, even if they are level 1) should be able to beat opponents using their weaknesses if the player knows how to control the character. Knowledge of monsters' weaknesses cannot and should not be a passive trait (i.e. if Geralt has an entry about this beast in his journal, he'll do +5 damage). Instead, a system of timely attacks and evades needs to be implemented.

2) Geralt should never ever turn his back to his foes. Not even when performing an evade. One of the few truly ridiculous things you did with TW2 was the part of combat where Geralt would roll away from enemies turning his back to them. An acceptable roll-evade system was implemented in Fable, where the hero, while rolling, would sitll face his enemy. However the whole rolling indefinitely business does not feel right when it comes to Geralt. I can't remember any time from Sapkowski's books where he'd roll around like that. Please, be awesome

UPD Also, one of the flaws was that character's greatness in combat was largely based on his enemies fighting as if it was their 1st time wielding a sword. Remember the LaValette soldiers? Those guys swung their swords like children, thus making it easier for Geralt to evade them. Which should not be the case. They're not witchers, of course, but they are trained soldiers and not some peasants.

Thank you very much

 

[GamaH]

Yeah. #2 is particularly important. Strafing, i.e., being able to sidestep or circle an opponent, and backpedaling are two things that NEED to be in, imo.

When I press the "S" (or whatever key is mapped to moving backwards) during combat, I think Geralt should take steps backwards while remaining in a combat stance, not turn tail and run. At no point in time should he stop facing the enemy, unless he's doing some kind of dodge move where he's spinning (in a 360) around the enemy or something.

 

[Kallelinski]

• Geralt’s dodge roll replaced by a pivot move
• Every button prss mapped to a single strike
• Each move takes a roughly equivalent time to perforom
• Can always interrupt your current action to immediately dodge or block
• Can block/dodge when out of stamina, but you’ll be staggered
• Team wants to make the combat “more intimate”

I would say, they already are doing what you want.

 

[tirim4]

They have confirmed that they have removed the rolling from the game in exchange for a pivot move. They have also said that hunting for information about monsters will be more rewarding as you will gain kowledge about them that will help you in combat, for example what part of the body to hit for critical damage (I don't know how passive this ability is though).

 

[GamaH]

Pivot move a la the spin he did in Witcher 1 when clicking away from an opponent?

 

[ungvaar]

• Can block/dodge when out of stamina, but you’ll be staggered

This should be changed as well. Of course, standing and blocking indefinitely is no good, but limiting the number of times that character can block is not right either. Blocking needs to be timed (like in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or in Dishonored) so that character's chance of successfully blocking depended on player and not on stamina.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

A good implementation of monster knowledge for combat i always wanted since TW1 was that when you learn about the monster's anatomy, like the vampire and its two hearts, like OP said instead of just doing more damage, reading the book actually unlocks a unique dedicated combat animation when fighting that monster, and it may require you to either press a special button as a combat modifier or it draws vigor or whatever.

Apparently they agree with me a little bit:
Critical strikes in areas that matter depending on how much you learn about said monster
You can disable a vampires poisoning attack by hitting its venom gland (Vampires are poisonous?) or skewer BOTH ITS HEARTS with a thrust attack (instant kill)

 

[eLeF1]

No rolling please, not only it looks ridiculous but it also wouldn't be used in a real fight by any sane person. Instead introduce proper footwork (sidestep and such) and effective blocking/parrying.

 

[johnduds]

They have confirmed that they have removed the rolling from the game in exchange for a pivot move. They have also said that hunting for information about monsters will be more rewarding as you will gain kowledge about them that will help you in combat, for example what part of the body to hit for critical damage (I don't know how passive this ability is though).

Can you link where you heard this info?

 

[tirim4]

Can you link where you heard this info?

There are scans of the Game Informer article on the internet, not sure if Im allowed to post them here but they're quite easy to find on google.

 

[ungvaar]

reading the book actually unlocks a unique dedicated combat animation when fighting that monster

This would be of course perfect. I doubt, however, that any modern developer would put additional time and resources into perfecting the combat system. But if they do implement something like this, it would bring the Witcher game one huge step closer to being more like all the awesome Sapkowski's books.

 

[Corylea.723]

There are scans of the Game Informer article on the internet, not sure if Im allowed to post them here but they're quite easy to find on google.

They've already been posted in this forum:

http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33787-news-and-rumours-about-tw3-was-tomorrow-is-the-day/page__st__80__p__918371#entry918371

and

http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33787-news-and-rumours-about-tw3-was-tomorrow-is-the-day/page__st__120__p__918406#entry918406

 

[tirim4]

They've already been posted in this forum:

http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33787-news-and-rumours-about-tw3-was-tomorrow-is-the-day/page__st__80__p__918371#entry918371

and

http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33787-news-and-rumours-about-tw3-was-tomorrow-is-the-day/page__st__120__p__918406#entry918406

Well there are scans of the complete article here: (the link is in german but it shouldn't be too hard to figure it out), though the images above summarizes it pretty good.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

This would be of course perfect. I doubt, however, that any modern developer would put additional time and resources into perfecting the combat system. But if they do implement something like this, it would bring the Witcher game one huge step closer to being more like all the awesome Sapkowski's books.

I know but in another part of where this info came from it says, TW3 has 96 combat animations for geralt only, while in TW2 he had 20.

So maybe they are doing exactly what i said.

 

[ungvaar]

Also, one of the flaws was that character's greatness in combat was largely based on his enemies fighting as if it is their 1st time wielding a sword. Remember the LaValette soldiers? Those guys swung their swords like children, thus making it easier for Geralt to evade them. Which should not be the case. They're not witchers, of course, but they are trained soldiers and not some peasants.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Okay i have a suggestion for combat and abilities as well.

It would be very cool in my opinion, if in TW3 you could learn and acquire traits and special characteristics by simply doing them, but more importantly practicing them.

Just like in TW1 you could discover potions by experiment (i want that back too), i would love if for example:

Geralt hits enemies in the back A LOT, simply because of your gameplay style and with time, you get a bonus in damage or faster back strikes or something.

Throwing knives could start somewhat inaccurate, but besides improving that with skills you buy with exp geralt could get a small boost eventually if you like using them a lot.

This bonuses and traits should take A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT to get, i dont want to hit two guys in the back after 15 minutes of starting the game and already get a bonus.

In TW2 you could learn monster info by just killing many of them, unfortunately though, you didnt need to kill a lot and the info came pretty easy. I think you needed to kill 12 of them, lets say in TW3 you need around 60 kills, and then 40 kills later a new info/level/bonus and so on.

If you meet such monster early in the game maybe 80 or 100 kills first considering how long TW3 might be.

 

[glorfindeil]

i thnk the fight animation in witcher 1 was mutch better, evades flips, salto voltes..., sword fight moves when geralt not always faced enemy, he made some hits staying whit back. or those awesome moves when fighting a group of enemies., the blood traces on ground and cuted of heads... it was awesome

 

[FoggyFishburne]

A lot of people are complaining about the rolling mechanic. Personally, I thought it was great. Thematic and badass. The fact that it isn't "realistic" is irrelevant, we're talking about a game here, not a simulator. We're supposed to have fun and be engaged by the combat system, not bored to death by it. I feel like I'm the only one who truly loved the combat of TW2. Oh well.

That said, I've got nothing against Red experimenting and taking the combat to the next level. They've removed the rolling and replaced them with a pivot move? That's great. As long as it works in harmony with the other mechanics and doesn't hamper the flow of combat, I'm in! The only thing I demand from them is that the combat is fun. It has to engage me and make me wanna continue playing the game and not fall asleep. So yeah, I'm interested to see how the new combat system will work. Can't wait to see it

 

[ungvaar]

A lot of people are complaining about the rolling mechanic. Personally, I thought it was great. Thematic and badass. The fact that it isn't "realistic" is irrelevant, we're talking about a game here, not a simulator. We're supposed to have fun and be engaged by the combat system, not bored to death by it. I feel like I'm the only one who truly loved the combat of TW2. Oh well.

That said, I've got nothing against Red experimenting and taking the combat to the next level. They've removed the rolling and replaced them with a pivot move? That's great. As long as it works in harmony with the other mechanics and doesn't hamper the flow of combat, I'm in! The only thing I demand from them is that the combat is fun. It has to engage me and make me wanna continue playing the game and not fall asleep. So yeah, I'm interested to see how the new combat system will work. Can't wait to see it />

Doesn't need to be too realistic, no. But needs to correspond with how Geralt's fighting style was described in books. AND needs to make sense. Problem with rolling was it made no sense whatsoever.

 

[Mothra]

I would like them to get back more to TW1 where you had a real RPG system beneath the combat.
If player skill alone can get you through the game (like in TW2) all those talents you invest make the fights only quicker to finish.
I actually played TW2 without investing any talent points besides training and getting vigor up to 4 and it was doable.....tedious but doable (this was on hard, not dark). Just spam those bombs, axii and roll like a madman.

- this does not mean that I am against the style in TW2 at all, I was just curious if I could pull it off -

In TW1 (especially with the FCR mod) this would be impossible.
A middleground between those 2 would be nicer imo......
e.g. without knowledge/talents you cannot block certain monsters/opponents moves, evades fail, etc.... or with knowledge NEW moves unlock and the effect they have is strenghtend (pain, bleed, blind, fear....)
Without the above and the right equipment you should not be able to penetrate a monsters' thick skin at all or get staggered by trying to.

Also: no talents should give you dmg reduction from backstabs. A backstab should be (almost) certain death imo. THAT would make combat much more tactical, first you would have to seperate/weaken/fear/blind the opponents so you can strike effectively.
This would also lead to getting rid of "potions before a fight" which was plain bad imo, you cannot just "guess" what opposition you will run into.

Additionally:
Start fights with your sword drawn. No more gangbanging on Geralt because we have to wait to draw our sword after cutscenes and if they still think it should be that way at least let him use signs without the sword drawn.

- this is all just me daydreaming, I really don't think we will see it in that way -

And no more cat potions, they are just plain bad. Witchers have cateyes for a reason.