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TW3 UI Aesthetics

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MrG721

Senior user
#201
Sep 1, 2014
I don't understand how people prefer colorless, simplified, sterile UI in the fantasy based game,they simply doesn't fit, Everybody knows that fantasy games are full of imaginary creatures, art, architecture, colorful craft and so on.
So called clean UI is much more suitable for Sci-Fi games like Mass Effects...
 
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Kinley

Kinley

Ex-moderator
#202
Sep 1, 2014
goran-srb- said:
I don't understand how people prefer colorless, simplified, sterile UI in the fantasy based game,they simply doesn't fit, Everybody knows that fantasy games are full of imaginary creatures, art, architecture, colorful craft and so on.
So called clean UI is much more suitable for Sci-Fi games like Mass Effects...
Click to expand...
And that's why I think W1's UI is the perfect example. I really miss W1's flourishes, it added a sense of style to the whole UI.

In terms of functionality W3's UI does seems to go in that direction somewhat (still need to see it work with M&KB ), but in terms of "looks" I do agree its rather dull. Now I know devs don't want to make the UI look like a Christmas tree, but add a splash of color in there.
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#203
Sep 1, 2014
goran-srb- said:
I don't understand how people prefer colorless, simplified, sterile UI in the fantasy based game,they simply doesn't fit, Everybody knows that fantasy games are full of imaginary creatures, art, architecture, colorful craft and so on.
So called clean UI is much more suitable for Sci-Fi games like Mass Effects...
Click to expand...
Kinley said:
And that's why I think W1's UI is the perfect example. I really miss W1's flourishes, it added a sense of style to the whole UI.

In terms of functionality W3's UI does seems to go in that direction somewhat (still need to see it work with M&KB ), but in terms of "looks" I do agree it's rather dull. Now I know devs don't want to make the UI look like a Christmas tree, but add a splash of color in there.
Click to expand...
No.
The UI isn't an in-game asset, thus it's not required to follow in-game aesthetics. That's what allows sans serif type to work so well in TW3, whereas a more literalistic approach would go for serif ,or even gothic/Renaissance reminiscent type. Unbound by such superficial considerations, DIN is able to interact with in-game visuals in a contrasting but highly appealing way.

Apart from DIN, there is very little clean looking about the UI. In fact, one of the most pressing aesthetic problems is just that, the contradiction between type and the other elements in the composition, which, though stylized, are not clean looking at all. There are countless gradients, rulers and other decorative elements scattered around in a cluttered, unfocused and non-hierarchical fashion. In some ways, it's antipodean to how a modern UI looks like.

But TW1 UI just calls undue attention to itself, with all the flourishes, arabesques and effects. It's as though someone accidentally turned Caps Lock on, forgot to toggle it off, and kept on typing. Thanks, but no thanks.

Until the UI merges into gameplay, until it becomes, so to speak, a mini-game, the map turns into an in-game object, for example, there's no obligation for it to follow in-game aesthetics. Therefore, the alleged but unfounded simplicity claim is certainly not the issue here.
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#204
Sep 1, 2014
goran-srb- said:
I don't understand how people prefer colorless, simplified, sterile UI in the fantasy based game,they simply doesn't fit, Everybody knows that fantasy games are full of imaginary creatures, art, architecture, colorful craft and so on.
So called clean UI is much more suitable for Sci-Fi games like Mass Effects...
Click to expand...
Well, my guess is that many people are just used to it. The UI is a typcial console UI with big icons, bit elements and a simple approach to enable easy usage with a controller.

For a sophisticated UI with small (and many) icons and complex geometries like in Witcher 1 you NEED the precision of a mouse, it's as simple as that.

The problem is that it's hard to combine those two approaches. But I think it was done rather well in Witcher 2 (apart from the list based inventory) and I don't know why they went for an even "cleaner" and more "modern" looking approach in Witcher 3. I agree that it imo doesn't really fit to the setting and the atmosphere of the game. The UIs of both W1 and W2 fit to the games a whole lot better.
 
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GHOSTMD

GHOSTMD

Senior user
#205
Sep 1, 2014
Im sure there Will a a mod to change that ;]
Click to expand...
There will be no need for a mod if CDPR listen here and do it right in the first place ;) (what i hope for)

I'd wish the Witcher 3 would have those "midnight"/"dawn"/"dusk"/"noon" symbols that can be seen in the meditation screen of the Witcher 1
Click to expand...
EXACTLY WHAT I METIONED with "CDPR has still 6 month left to bring up a good mix" aye?

TW1 feels a bit too "loud", to me. Just... too many things, too many images, too much color.
Click to expand...
Yes you re right @eliharel TW1 overdid it in a kind with all the colour and art in the UI
But what TW1 has to much, has TW2 and even TW3 to less don t you think?

I'll go with Witcher 3 design in all aspects - it's much cleaner.
Click to expand...
yes @jeeers you have the same point as Eli here i go with you in that:
TW1 is a bit TOOO OVERLOADED with art, but (as above quoted) you proove my point to.

TW3 is clean, nearby sterile and spartanic with his UI (so far)
To get you where am i atm... lets imagine you dive in the witcher 3 world... you feel the dirt, corrupt and dark
enviroment there you are fully into it... and then there comes up that "clean" surface....

For me this just not feels right... it would not "suit" into the feeling the world tries to carry out ;)

Once again i don t want a 1:1 TW1 UI here CDPR just have to bring back the touch of it.
for example the TW1 dawn, noon, dusk, midnight icons with the sandtimer in the meditation screen
or the 3D wolf head instead of that plain one, and NO this would not break that "cleanish" behavior of
the UI overall... tough it would bring back a bit of the TW1 touch ;) aye?


PS: please don t force me to use my incredible paint skills to build some examples for you :p :p
 
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Kinley

Kinley

Ex-moderator
#206
Sep 1, 2014
GHOSTMD said:
Once again i don t want a 1:1 TW1 UI here CDPR just have to bring back the touch of it.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.

TW3 just needs a bit of "character" I guess. So far (and I'm fully aware it's WIP) it lacks it severely.
 
GHOSTMD

GHOSTMD

Senior user
#207
Sep 1, 2014
TW3 just needs a bit of "character" I guess. So far (and I'm fully aware it's WIP) it lacks it severely.
Click to expand...
hehehhe thats why i cry like a little child about it @Kinley NOW we have the chance to complain about it and
bring attention of the art designers to it, at last for the PC UI. :D WIP means exactly that ;) how should the
Devs know about our concerns when we don t write them? ;) and i think i metioned my concerns here
very well... and i also brought up some good ideas (i hope)
 
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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#208
Sep 1, 2014
Kinley said:
Pretty much this.

TW3 just needs a bit of "character" I guess. So far (and I'm fully aware it's WIP) it lacks it severely.
Click to expand...
Character doesn't equate with mild Baroque. A simple UI can have just as much personality as TW1's. It's how you do it that either makes it or breaks it. DIN is a great example of how modern aesthetics can work wonderfully within TW3. So simplicity is not the real aesthetic problem, on the contrary.

A pre-judgemental attachment to a "fantasy-fitting" UI is groundless.
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#209
Sep 1, 2014
Jupiter on Mars said:
A pre-judgemental attachment to a "fantasy-fitting" UI is groundless.
Click to expand...
You do know that aesthestics are to a great extend based on taste anyway?


One of the reasons why I think the UI looks so "modern" is that it has not a single "round" form or circle. Every element is bascially a rectangle wihch imo makes the whole UI kind of lifeless or lacking personality. And the rectangles (e.g. for the inventory) are not even artistically covered (like e.g. in Skyrim), with its simplistic design the blocks are even more prominent.

From a geometrical/layout perspective the whole UI seems to be a bit inconsistent with a lot of unused space between it's components. Also the combination of elements is imo lacking. For example the explanation box doesn't really fit to the inventory box above it, neither in size nor in design nor in its usage of the color palette.

The color palette is the third "problem" with the UI. Why this kind of depressing red/brown combination? And why making it THAT prominent? Color just for the sake of color isn't worth anything. What's the purpose of this strong color palette which is at the same time very limited? I would personally prefer a much lighter or a transparent UI (again like in Skyrim).

In general, the UI imo just lacks "art". The only artistic element is the picture of Geralt in the middle. There rest is pure geometry. I just don't know why a game which is based on handcrafting every element of the game and which cries art at every occasion relies on simple geometric elements without further artistic treatment for the UI. I agree that it doesn't have to follow the same rules as the game itself but it's imo still looking inconsistent. For me, the UI is kind of immersion-breaking. With its combination of pure rectangles and the strong but limited color palette it really forces you out of the actual game experience. Maybe the effect would be smaller with at least a transparent background. But then again the simple geometric forms would even fit less to the game in the background...
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#210
Sep 1, 2014
LordCrash said:
You do know that aesthestics are to a great extend based on taste anyway?
Click to expand...
I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion here. But that claim is open for debate, namely to what extent and the nature of the extent.

I have given you a reason why the UI is not required to follow in-game aesthetics. I mean that it certainly can adhere to in-game aesthetics but it is not required to do so, as it operates outside of the game world. Designers have a choice in whether they want to make that distinction explicit or not. They are certainly free to opt.

So the focus should be on the aesthetic virtues of each, instead of crying from the get go «Oh, Dang, that doesn't look medieval enough", "What's this, Metro TW3?!"
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#211
Sep 1, 2014
Jupiter on Mars said:
So the focus should be on the aesthetic virtues of each, instead of crying «Oh, Dang, that doesn't look medieval enough", "What's this, Metro TW3?!"
Click to expand...
The focus should be on respecting other people's opinions instead of calling them out for "crying", don't you think?


Nobody said that the UI is required to follow in-game aesthetics. But some people here think that it should fit together or that a fitting UI would benefit the game IN THEIR OPINION.

Your statement "the devs are free to opt." is absolutely pointless here. Everybody knows that. We're here to give feedback and not to force anyone to do anything. In the end it's the taste and decision of CDPR that counts. We can only give some input based on our own taste and opinion.
 
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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#212
Sep 1, 2014
LordCrash said:
One of the reasons why I think the UI looks so "modern" is that it has not a single "round" form or circle. Every element is bascially a rectangle wihch imo makes the whole UI kind of lifeless or lacking personality. And the rectangles (e.g. for the inventory) are not even artificially covered (like e.g. in Skyrim), with its simplistic design the blocks are even more prominent.
Click to expand...
That's not true at all.
1) Dial menu is circular, 2) crosshair/lupe is a circle, 3) clock uses a circle, 4) "level" uses a half circle.
I won't bother listing them all.

I agree with you on rectangles.

From a geometrical/layout perspective the whole UI seems to be a bit inconsistent with a lot of unused space between it's components. Also the combination of elements is imo lacking. For example the explanation box doesn't really fit to the inventory box above it, neither in size nor in design nor in its usage of the color palette.
Click to expand...
True, there's tons of puzzling misalignments there.

The color palette is the third "problem" with the UI. Why this kind of depressing red/brown combination? And why making it THAT prominent? Color just for the sake of color isn't worth anything. What's the purpose of this strong color palette which is at the same time very limited? I would personally prefer a much lighter or a transparent UI (again like in Skyrim).
Click to expand...
Fully agreed.


In general, the UI imo just lacks "art". The only artistic element is the picture of Geralt in the middle. There rest is pure geometry. I just don't know why a game which is based on handcrafting every element of the game and which cries art at every occasion relies on simple geometric elements without further artistic treatment for the UI. I agree that it doesn't have to follow the same rules as the game itself but it's imo still looking inconsistent. For me, the UI is kind of immersion-breaking. With its combination of pure rectangles and the strong but limited color palette it really forces you out of the actual game experience. Maybe the effect would be smaller with at least a transparent background. But then again the simple geometric forms would even fit less to the game in the background...
Click to expand...
Might comment on this later on.

LordCrash said:
The focus should be on respecting other people's opinions instead of calling them out for "crying", don't you think?


Nobody said that the UI is required to follow in-game aesthetics. But some people here think that it should fit together or that a fitting UI would benefit the game IN THEIR OPINION.

Your statement "the devs are free to opt." is absolutely pointless here. Everybody knows that. We're here to give feedback and not to force anyone to do anything. In the end it's the taste and decision of CDPR that counts. We can only give some input based on our own taste and opinion.
Click to expand...
You're missing my point altogether.

First off, I respect but do challenge dissonant opinions. Great to see that you profess to do so as well. Therefore, you also respect opinions of those who think aesthetics is not subjective, either at all or just to a lesser degree. Though this is not own stance, I just pointed that out just to remind you the implied suggestion that its subjective nature is a tautology is not really accurate. Anyway, that was just a side note.

What I wanted to point out is that there is no inherent superiority in a fantasy-fitting UI when it comes to fantasy games, from a conceptual point of view. Thus, we're left with addressing the specifics in each UI, instead of just having to rely on a prejudgement call of whether it's fantasy-fitting or not. In this regard, contrast, and not agreement, is often a better way to underline. And we already have a great in-game example of that: DIN.

The problem is that they didn't follow through.
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#213
Sep 1, 2014
Jupiter on Mars said:
That's not true at all.
1) Dial menu is circular, 2) crosshair/lupe is a circle, 3) clock uses a circle, 4) "level" uses a half circle.
I won't bother listing them all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but not everywhere. Let's have a look at these screens:

View attachment 5741



The only substantical, not rectangular based element here is the clock and level display in the upper right corner (which is quite small compared to the whole rest) and of course the picture of Geralt...

True, there's tons of puzzling misalignments there.
Click to expand...
You want to elaborate on them?

First off, I respect dissonant opinions. Great to see that you do so as well. Therefore, you also respect opinions of those who think aesthetics are not subjective, either at all or just a lesser degree. Though this is not own stance, I just pointed that out just to remind you the implied suggestion the subjective nature of aesthetics is more or less a tautology is not really accurate. Anyway, that was just a side note.
Click to expand...
I agree but I think we misunderstand each other. I didn't want to say that aesthetics itself are completely subjective but what we see fit. There is imo a difference between aesthetics on a general (philosophical) level and our own opinion and taste what might aesthetically (or better visually) fit togehter. But then again that's (like you've said yourself) a highly philosophical and controversial issue.

What I wanted to point out is that there is no inherent superiority in a fantasy-fitting UI in a fantasy game, from a conceptual point of view. Thus, we're left with addressing the specifics in each UI, instead of just having to rely on prejudgement call of whether it is fantasy-fitting or not. In this regard, contrast, and not agreement, is often a better device to underline that which you're contrasting with. And we already have a great in-game example of just that: DIN. The problem is that they didn't follow it through.
Click to expand...
What's DIN?

I agree that there is no general rule what fits fantasy or not. It's a matter of taste. When I see that the UI is imo not fitting to its setting that's just my opinion. Contrast can indeed serve a similar purpose but even contrast has to fit. And then again contrast doesn't always fit...
 

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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#214
Sep 1, 2014
LordCrash said:
Yeah, but not everywhere. Let's have a look at these screens:

View attachment 5741



The only substantical, not rectangular based element here is the clock and level display in the upper right corner (which is quite small compared to the whole rest) and of course the picture of Geralt...


You want to elaborate on them?


I agree but I think we misunderstand each other. I didn't want to say that aesthetics itself are completely subjective but what we see fit. There is imo a difference between aesthetics on a general (philosophical) level and our own opinion and taste what might aesthetically (or better visually) fit togehter. But then again that's (like you've said yourself) a highly philosophical and controversial issue.


What's DIN?

I agree that there is no general rule what fits fantasy or not. It's a matter of taste. When I see that the UI is imo not fitting to its setting that's just my opinion. Contrast can indeed serve a similar purpose but even contrast has to fit. And then again contrast doesn't always fit...
Click to expand...
In that screen grab, you're forgetting the griffin sketch, which is prominent and organic-looking, but also small icons such as potions and bombs, both of which feature round shapes. So I think you mean composition or structure, which is very «boxy», almost has a spreadsheet-y feel to it. This is foremost established by the use of colour blocking on category titles, which is way overdone, as you have mentioned.

For misalignments, please review OP.

DIN is - courtesy of @adridu59 - the sans serif modern looking font used in, say, «Free City of Novigrad» or «May, 1272». I think it works beautifully (though I wouldn't mind a less extended version; wondering if FF DIN is as wide).
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#215
Sep 1, 2014
I was hoping for a more stylized presentation of the monsters, like they were sketched in sepia ink by an artist or with a woodcut design:



Deus Ex and DA:O are still among the best UI designs I've seen, balancing form and function very well, aside from minor issues with DA's functionality:





Deus Ex even allowed you to customize elements of the UI, and of course I always modded the hell out of DA:O. There were a number of mods that improved its scale and functionality. The care and attention to detail they put into UIs back then is not something you see much of these days.
 
Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
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Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#216
Sep 1, 2014
slimgrin said:
I was hoping for a more stylized presentation of the monsters, like they were sketched in sepia ink by an artist or with a woodcut design:

Click to expand...
Exactly.
The very same thought occurred to me. And it would make perfect sense. Geralt would take notes and sketch up the monster pretty much like a facial composite. Meaning the sketch would only appear on your bestiary once you had talked to villagers or other eye witnesses and they shared some relevant info. Or read some books on them.

Have you watched Kingdom Come: Deliveance latest update where they showcase the alchemy minigame?

And for heavens sake, do not overlay text on images. It detracts from both.
 
HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#217
Sep 1, 2014
Honestly I never was a fan of list inventories like DAO had. It was the case of Borderlands/Fable TLC/Oblivion (thank god for Darnified UI)/Skyrim/etc. If I'd have to say one game in which I really liked menu functionality that would be Morrowind. I could move windows around, resize them, it had grid based inventory, hover over functionality to get more info etc. I can definitelly see how some people would dislike that though.
 
S

Spititout

Senior user
#218
Sep 1, 2014
I think they should make HUD more like Skyrims, because lets be honest they pretty much revolucionized the HUD thing in todays
games especially for RPGs.
 
S

Spititout

Senior user
#219
Sep 1, 2014


I mean we dont really need that big compas thing anymore Skyrim made it perfect,
or why do we need to be told what day or weather time is it at the moment??
like we cant tell it by ourselves, or the creatures that dwell in those specific areas.

I think it would be pretty cool if Geralt told to us, like when we get into some area
where drowners are, and he says something like there are drowners or werewolfs
or any other creatures or dangers like he warns us etc...
 
HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#220
Sep 1, 2014
Because time of day and weather actually have an impact on gameplay. Minimap has been there since TW1.
 
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