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TW3 UI Aesthetics

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S

Scholdarr

Banned
#161
Aug 30, 2014
tw3fanapp said:
Now I understand. You want to press 1 for igni, 2 for aard and so on?
Well maybe you can, we don't know the possibilities of key bindings. On the other hand every sign has two modes. How would you approach that? And is that hotbar really the right way to do for a witcher game?
Click to expand...
Two sign modes are no problem. You should be able to assign abilities/signs freely to keyboard buttons (like 1 - 0). So it's up to the player to bind the signs to the buttons. The good thing with an actual hotbar is that you're not forced to only 10 buttons max. Games like Divinity Original Sin (although being turn based) offer up to 50 slots in the hotbar) for fast and easy selection...

Why shouldn't that be the right thing for a Witcher game? Why can you hit an enemy with your sword by just pressing a button but you have to inconveniently travel through menus to actually cast a simple sign? Imo that only leads to little motivation to ever use signs. They must be as quickly accessible as possible in combat to be of use and to not feel clunky.
 
M

mico11

Senior user
#162
Aug 30, 2014
tw3fanapp said:
Now I understand. You want to press 1 for igni, 2 for aard and so on?
Well maybe you can, we don't know the possibilities of key bindings. On the other hand every sign has two modes. How would you approach that? And is that hotbar really the right way to do for a witcher game?
Click to expand...
You could in TW2 so I don't see why you can't now. But you don't actually need to see a hotkey bar since there's not much spells you can put anyway. If you can change the sign with scroll button one by one, but also with 1-5 numbers for example then it's good.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#163
Aug 30, 2014
mico11 said:
You could in TW2 so I don't see why you can't now. But you don't actually need to see a hotkey bar since there's not much spells you can put anyway. If you can change the sign with scroll button one by one, but also with 1-5 numbers for example then it's good.
Click to expand...
Yup, it was there in the earlier games, I don't think there's any reason to think it isn't there again in TW3.
 
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#164
Aug 30, 2014
mico11 said:
You could in TW2 so I don't see why you can't now. But you don't actually need to see a hotkey bar since there's not much spells you can put anyway. If you can change the sign with scroll button one by one, but also with 1-5 numbers for example then it's good.
Click to expand...
5 signs -> 5 buttons
two modes for each sign -> 10 buttons
X bombs -> 10+X buttons
Y other items you can use -> 10+X+Y buttons

The problem with key binding without hotbars is that you have to remember your bindings at every time (and sometimes you just press the wrong buttons in the heat of combat anyway) and that you're usually limited to 10 keys max. So key bindings are cool but having a hotbar for quick and precise access would be even cooler imo (on top of keybinding)...
 
HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#165
Aug 30, 2014
Yeah, basically I want to press a key and cast the sign associated when I press it. I had them assigned to keys around WASD and the side and middle mouse buttons. Combat was really fun for be because of that, it had a nice flow (albeit somewhat unresponsive at times due to how animation blending worked). I want that back but with the ability to use gadgets the same way without having to pause. Heck I'd be OK if I could just press 1-5 to pick a gadget and then another button to use it.
 
T

tw3fanapp

Forum regular
#166
Aug 30, 2014
I would not like a magic hotbar for TW3, it's too hack and slay. And as stated, there are only 5 signs with 2 variations each.
 
M

mico11

Senior user
#167
Aug 30, 2014
I don't think that each mode will have it's own special button. Logical thing to dois signs to have a designated alternate sign button, so you select 1-5 and then use the alternate sign button or the main sign use button. Pretty sure that's how it is in the game.

As for the bombs there should be a button to scroll trough them , since you can only equip a few at a time.
 
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S

Scholdarr

Banned
#168
Aug 30, 2014
tw3fanapp said:
I would not like a magic hotbar for TW3, it's too hack and slay. And as stated, there are only 5 signs with 2 variations each.
Click to expand...
Too hack and slay?

So Dragon Age or Divinity Original Sin are hack and slay games???

I don't think that's a valid argument tbh.

mico11 said:
I don't think that each mode will have it's own special button. Logical thing to dois signs to have a designated alternate sign button, so you select 1-5 and then use the alternate sign button or the main sign use button. Pretty sure that's how it is in the game.

As for the bombs there should be a button to scroll trough them , since you can only equip a few at a time.
Click to expand...
That's how it is designed to be easy to use with controllers, not because it's the best choice in terms of gameplay (at least that's my opinion)...
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
M

mico11

Senior user
#169
Aug 30, 2014
LordCrash said:
That's how it is designed to be easy to use with controllers, not because it's the best choice in terms of gameplay (at least that's my opinion)...
Click to expand...
And what would it be if it was designed for PC...? : /

As younger I loved playing Gothic 2, and Severance, and Jedi Outcast, and Mount and Blade more recently . If they came out today as multiplatform you people would still point fingers and say how better they would be as PC exclusives and how much they suffered. Some games are action oriented and that's that. Why can't you just enjoy video games instead of complaining about how special the PC version is. If the game plays badly on PC people will call them out on that. But I don't think it will, I think they learned their lesson with W2 which was just rushed.

But no, EA deserves our allegiance more, pls take me 80$ super DLC deluxe edition and microtransaction money because of a simple redesign.
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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S

Scholdarr

Banned
#170
Aug 30, 2014
mico11 said:
And what would it be if it was designed for PC...? : /
Click to expand...
If it would be designed for PC you could use any sign, any sign mode, any bomb and any other item in your inventory by just clicking on an UI item once or by just pressing a bound key. Minimal input for direct action. Basically the same as it is with sword/melee gameplay.

Witcher 3 is a real time action game (from a combat gameplay perspective). Anything that breaks the flow of combat is actually a bad thing. Any time you spend time in some kind of menu or any time you spend with pressing buttons which don't cause direct effects is basically to be avoided from a design and gameplay perspective imo.

As younger I loved playing Gothic 2, and Severance, and Jedi Outcast, and Mount and Blade more recently . If they came out today as multiplatform you people would still point fingers and say how better they would be as PC exclusives and how much they suffered. Some games are action oriented and that's that. Why can't you just enjoy video games instead of complaining about stuff that don't matter. If the game plays badly on PC people will call them out on that. But I don't think it will, I think they learned their lesson with W2 which was just rushed.
Click to expand...
I just ask for using the options of PC and M/K "properly". Witcher 3 doesn't have to be PC exclusive. But I don't see why you shouldn't try to enable the best possible experience on each platform you release your game on. M/K arguably enables more options and input than controllers (due to much bigger precision especially in 2nd screen control and due to more keys available) so it's also kind of "downgrading" the PC version if you limit the gameplay to options that play well on controllers. It's the same logic that applies to graphics. Most PC users expect CDPR to give them even better visuals than possible on consoles. So why not asking them for "better" (or more direct, more suited) input options as well?

But no, EA deserves our allegiance more, pls take me 80$ super DLC deluxe edition and microtransaction money. Truly the master race wins again
Click to expand...
Is that the level on which you want to lead this discussion?
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
M

mico11

Senior user
#171
Aug 30, 2014
Man I feel like the discussion is going in circles. I already said, there were key bounds for spells in TW2. If it's not in TW3, if they didn't do a good job with the mouse controls , if the inventory feels clunky , letters are oversized, no tweaks from consoles, no drag and drop then they did a shitty job.

But I don't really believe that they did.I think it will feel good on PC. I really liked what i saw from the inventory system as a foundation for the new UI (maybe needs some visual tweaks),
 
A

archaven

Rookie
#172
Aug 30, 2014
HellKnightX88 said:
Rather than a hotbar personally I just want to be able to assign signs to hotkeys like we could in TW2 and being able to assign item slots to hotkeys. Basically a hotbar that never actually shows on screen. That way I won't ever have to pause during battle. (if I do then that means I didn't prepare well enough for the battles ahead).

IIRC the music didn't mute even when pausing. It doesn't make a lot of sense if it would.


To me the UI looks OK. Some things here and there I'd like to change like the return of the 3D medalion from TW1. But generally I'm more interested on being able to hotkey items and signs, I have all these keys on my keyboard, let me use them please, don't force me to pause the action in order to select a particular type of bomb. I don't really care about the radial menu much because it interrupts the action. I don't need them to tailor the UI to my needs as a PC gamer,I don't need it to have a different layout, I just want it to be functional. I'm glad they got rid of the lists and that they brought back the grid menu from TW1 but with the categorization of TW2.

I hope the bestiary section will be more similar to TW1 rather than have it divided in 2 like TW2; in TW2 you had a section in your journal where you could see creature descriptions and then you had another that was only accessible from the character skills menu (knowledge) that described their habbits and weaknesses in more detail. I never quite understood why that information was divided in two completely separate areas of the UI.
Click to expand...
I understand some like a clean UI. I find the hotbar very beneficial as I can't possibly remember each key bind to what item/actions. You have signs, different type of bombs, traps, items, consumables and possibly swapping different swords with different elements is a great addition. My preference would the hotbar would be shown during combat and hidden during adventuring. And also having an option to toggle it on/off would be great for people who doesn't want it.
 
A

archaven

Rookie
#173
Aug 30, 2014
mico11 said:
Man I feel like the discussion is going in circles. I already said, there were key bounds for spells in TW2. If it's not in TW3, if they didn't do a good job with the mouse controls , if the inventory feels clunky , letters are oversized, no tweaks from consoles, no drag and drop then they did a shitty job.

But I don't really believe that they did.I think it will feel good on PC. I really liked what i saw from the inventory system as a foundation for the new UI (maybe needs some visual tweaks),
Click to expand...
This is because SOME people want it to get locked and doesn't want PC to have it. It's that simple.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#174
Aug 30, 2014
I see very little actual disagreement over the last few pages - everyone seems to agree that hotkeys are good, that hotbars MIGHT be useful.

The disagreements appear to be about hypothetical game content that may or may not even exist, such as swapping out swords in mid-battle, mysterious "gadgets" that you may need to equip, or huge numbers of sign options, potions, bombs or traps to be used on the fly that would make hotbars a necessary feature instead of just personal preference. With the possible exception of doubling the sign options, I'm not aware of any information we've seen about the game that would indicate such a change, so unless you can point to specific interviews that say otherwise, it's probably better to stick to "I like hotbars" as a justification. It's a perfectly good justification.

The same goes for hotkeys, as the disagreement appears to be about a hypothetical scenario that, despite the fact that they were there in TW2, they won't be in TW3. If this were true, there may be reason to be concerned, but I'm unaware of any information given that would indicate that it's been removed as a feature.

So maybe it's time to lower the temperature a little and get it back to a discussion about the UI aesthetics?
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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A

archaven

Rookie
#175
Aug 30, 2014
Swapping out swords (Steel and Silver) is not anything new. There are swords with elements (fire/ice) in the TW2 if my memory serves me well. So swapping them in the midst of combat is very beneficial. There different types of potions, concoctions, bombs, traps and now a crossbow and in TW2 there's throwing dagger. Those are not mysterious gadgets. Besides, i can't basically remember which action/skills/items that tie to which key, having a hotbar is very important. If you want to call it personal preference, hey since when i wasn't stating my own opinion? Whatever i said, represent my own, personal opinion and don't represent anyone else. Now back to UI aesthetics. I personally feel it makes the UI more beautiful with the hotbar. Now i hope that is not off-topic?
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#176
Aug 30, 2014
archav3n said:
Swapping out swords (Steel and Silver) is not anything new. There are swords with elements (fire/ice) in the TW2 if my memory serves me well. So swapping them in the midst of combat is very beneficial.
Click to expand...
If you want to discuss the desirability/practicality of swapping out swords (other than the standard switch from steel to silver), I think the combat thread may be more suitable. It's never been part of the game before, and I think you may be jumping a few steps by making this an issue about hotbars.

Regarding the rest, yes, these may benefit from hotkeys, and if there are a lot of them, they may benefit from a hotbar, but some of the assumptions made seem to be moving from "may" to "must".

So calm it down please.
 
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#177
Aug 30, 2014
So let's have a look at the 35min combat video again for an assessment of the combat/action UI (not inventory):

First: what we've seen:

1) You can only use the active sign with the press of a button in the console version so far. If you want to change the active sign you must open the ring menu and choose another sign.

2) It seems that you must choose your active items in the respective category by choosing it in the ring menu. There is only space for five items in the ring menu. It seems likely that you have to choose the selection you want to use in combat before in the inventory (in the demo: crossbow + two sorts of bombs).

View attachment 5711

3) There is some kind of "mini hotbar" already in the alpha version. It appears only in combat in the left bottom corner with three slots. It seems like it's separated into "potions", "bombs/items/crossbow" and a third category which wasn't used in the demo.

View attachment 5712

4) It seems like you have to choose the potion in your mini hotbar in the inventory screen so you cannot change your selection during combat. Potions don't appear in the ring menu (which is probably according to lore restrictions).


Second: what does that mean for the PC version imo (or better M/K):

So it seems like key bindings for signs is generally possible (although it's against CDPR's new parity policy). At least that was already done in W2 so it would be a real step back if that won't be possible in W3. The ring menu is restricted to 10 slots, 5 for signs and 5 for items. Possibly all ten slots could be bound to keys on PC when using M/K. But there is also another possibility: the mini hotbar doesn't really makes much sense to me on PC when using M/K, especially the slot for the active item if you can bind items to keys. It reminds me a lot of Assassin's Creed Black Flag. There you could toggle with keys or the mouse scroll whell through two categories, one for secondary weapons and one for gadgets. I guess items could work the same way they worked in AC Black Flag. You toggle through your items and you use the active one with the press on the key for using items. That way your mouse wheel or toggle keys emulate/replace the ring menu selection.
Since CDPR thinks that platform partity means that the UI should be exactly the same on each platform I assume that we won't see any changes in design here. So it's unlikely to get a hotbar instead of the ring menu although it would be almost the same from a functionality perspective with the PC/hotbar version just affording one click (which you need to open the ring menu) less. Why would a hotbar be of more use on PC with M/K? Well, the answer is pure ease of use and convenience. You would see you key binding at all time in combat without the need to open the ring menu or toggle through categories. You would also always see how much munitions/item you'd have left.


So my final assessment/wishes for combat UI:

1) If they really don't want to change anything in the UI for the PC version a combination of (free) key bindings to both signs and items (probably according to the items stored in the ring menu) and of the possibility to toggle through categories "on the fly" in combat (similar to AC Black Flag) with the press of a button or with the mouse wheel would be a solution I could live with. But also only the selection via toggling (without hotkeys) seems possible although I doubt it since that would cause a lot of anger from PC players...

2) If they eventually decide that a hotbar is beneficial for the PC version you could just work with hotkeys for the items in the hotbar (or by clicking on them). The "full free assignable hotbar" (with e.g. 10 slots) would replace the "mini in categories separated hotbar" (with 3 slots) already in place. Toggling through categories would become unnecessary. Same is true for the ring menu made for controller use. A perfect (imo) UI solution for the hotbar would include a button to hide the bar for everyone seeking for full immersion. That way the hotbar key could work in the same way as the ring menu key, but the difference would be that you could let the hotbar visible the whole time in combat while you have to "pause/slow down" the game" to access the ring menu. That breaks the flow of combat while a hotbar (which could be turned on and off) would just enhance the ease of use and the functionality of the game in combat.

As a long year PC user I would really favor the second solution. While I could live with the first (which worked quite well in AC Unity) I think the second would mean an even better ease of use for people using M/K. A free assignable full hotbar would make the game more flexible. You don't like bombs? Cool, fill the hotbar with signs. You don't like signs? Cool, fill the hotbar with bombs. You don't like the looks of an hotbar during combat? Cool, assign your signs and items to hotkeys and make the hotbar invisible until you need it again or until you want to change your assignments.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Edit:
While where at it. Does somebody else also thinks that the the weather indicators in the upper right corner (left of the minimap) are way too prominent/big? I think a small icon like in Witcher 2 would be enough. I personally don't think that weather and daytime is that important to make it that prominent/big in UI...

Witcher 2:


Witcher 3:
 

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Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
A

archaven

Rookie
#178
Aug 30, 2014
I completely agree with LordCrash. If PC gamers don't get this i really hope someone would mod it. And i rather pay or donate some money to the modder :/
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#179
Aug 30, 2014
I'd propose the weather and creature info slides out as a tab when we pause the game and mouse over their icons. It's not obnoxious but it does kinda invade the play space. From what the devs said, time and weather are integrated into gameplay more than in the last games, so it seems a necessary addition.. I'm curious how the creature info will work as we explore. Undoubtedly there will more than one enemy type we encounter in each space, so how will it prioritize?

Edit- this presumes the mouse cursor will be enabled as it was in TW1.
 

Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
#180
Aug 30, 2014
slimgrin said:
I'd propose the weather and creature info slides out as a tab when we pause the game and mouse over their icons. It's not obnoxious but it does kinda invade the play space. From what the devs said, time and weather are integrated into gameplay more than in the last games, so it seems a necessary addition.. I'm curious how the creature info will work as we explore. Undoubtedly there will more than one enemy type we encounter in each space, so how will it prioritize?

Edit- this presumes the mouse cursor will be enabled as it was in TW1.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm wondering as well. And why do we need the game to tell us how the sky is looking? Can't we just look up?

LordCrash said:
(...)

Witcher 2:


Witcher 3:
Click to expand...
I'd prefer info on the bottom of the screen. Less intrusive.
 
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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