@All so called-professional-responsible sociologists and sex scene in videogame\toon-fragiles:I'm frankly tired and bored of this supposed theories about how children react to violence and sex scene on media, bigotism and censorship.I also work for children, so I may express my PROFESSIONAL and RESPONSIBLE opinion about (since I'm deeply involved in the matter, for Sauron-sake!)You may want to consider that children are NOT those stupid crash test dummies, totally unable to distinguish reality from fiction. You may want to consider that most of the videogames and toons (or comic books) might be "cathartic" with their violence and sex and whatever-you-call-bad-things scenes. Unfortunatly this matter requires a different thread I guess, since it's longly off topic. But I can tell that the most of kids do love to see an evil character to be punished even in the worst way (death), just to "purge" their own conception of suffered unjustice and evil. They surprizingly LOVE cruelty. Ai I've said I do not elongate here.Whatever it is, you may also want to consider that kids need just a grown-up to be close to them and talk\explain what they're watching. Provinding that they already perfectly conscious of what it's reality and not (you know, perhaps those kids may know that TW is a fantasy=not real). But of course, this is another issue: if u don't have the time to spend in talking\taking care of your own children, u cannot accuse the world\media to serve too much cruelty in a dish. I wonder what you say when you see a kid playing something more explicit, like GoW or Halo, Crysis, Call of Duty, Dante's Inferno, Resident Evil.... OMG there's plenty of cruelty and sex and mature contents outside there!!!!! *_*Good luck with your crusade ;-)
Are you sure? I am pretty certain (because it affected me) that at some point it didn’t work and given orens weren’t received.Also, why are you people so prude? Sex is something natural, why are you alienating it like that? This game shows many aspects of life and sexuality is but one of them. And it doesn’t hit you in the face with it, now does it? The game isn’t revolving around this to a major part.Flash said:
My only objection to the so called sex scenes is that they take up DVD space (say 100 Mbytes) that I believe could be better used to enlarge the total size of the game world. At some point in time--hopefully not too distant--developers will have at their fingertips storage devices capable of holding terabytes of storage, and there will be no limits on their "worlds" boundaries, but that time is not yet.In addition I buy games for the rare (to me) violence. There's been no shortage of sex in my life, but my total experience with real violence lasted only 3 or 4 terrifying hours in 1969. It's not something I'd want to actually repeat, but it's very interesting (to me) to take part in a very pale imitation of it in a game. Heads, arms, and legs chopped of may seem gross, but when you've seen a man converted to 30 square feet of blood, bones, brains, etc., it's more like Sesame Street.
Dan, If the game can fit on a DVD, does it really matter? If they remove the sex, it's not going to be replaced with anything but empty space, it's not going to reduce the number of discs. If downloading off something like Steam, ok, maybe. But in my experience, it doesn't take that long to DL a game on Steam anyway, so it would probably remove like a minute of download time. Big deal. I'm a straight girl, thus the sex scenes in the Witcher don't actually hold a ton of appeal for me. Geralt is a nice piece of man-meat in that rugged sort of way. (Though I'd rather see a sex scene with Ioweth 
) But he's the only character I'm you know, *interested* in, so... But I am not going to argue that they be removed. As mentioned on previous pages, I do feel the cards trivialized the sex, and created a situation where it was kind of separated from the plot of the game, and I think that wasn't what the devs were going for, so they changed it to more cinematic cutscenes. But I am completely fine with sex in the game. Your, opinion is not so all important that the devs should cater to you alone. They have a much larger audience than just you (or me, for that matter). many of whom think the sex is an important part of the game. But at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters, is what the devs envision, because you can't please everyone. As for the whole 'think of the children!!' argument that is always dredged up. It's not the game developers responsibility to babysit children. Period. We can't censor all games to be child friendly. Besides, I think the effect is being over stated. My sister and i played the Liesure Suit Larry games when wee were 11-12ish, and we're both fine.
) But he's the only character I'm you know, *interested* in, so... But I am not going to argue that they be removed. As mentioned on previous pages, I do feel the cards trivialized the sex, and created a situation where it was kind of separated from the plot of the game, and I think that wasn't what the devs were going for, so they changed it to more cinematic cutscenes. But I am completely fine with sex in the game. Your, opinion is not so all important that the devs should cater to you alone. They have a much larger audience than just you (or me, for that matter). many of whom think the sex is an important part of the game. But at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters, is what the devs envision, because you can't please everyone. As for the whole 'think of the children!!' argument that is always dredged up. It's not the game developers responsibility to babysit children. Period. We can't censor all games to be child friendly. Besides, I think the effect is being over stated. My sister and i played the Liesure Suit Larry games when wee were 11-12ish, and we're both fine.The cards in the first game added a substantial amount of STYLE to encounters that otherwise may have been bland. I never saw the cards as a "gotta catch em all" kinda bullshit, I simply slept with whoever I felt drawn to depending on the context of any situation in the game. Does anyone here remember Abigail's sex card? Holy mother of fock, I nearly shlt myself when I saw that one. I got sucker punched there. It gave Abigail a substantial amount of style, IMO. Those cards even told me more about personalities. The whole thing was just a really cool little side deal that I don't see too often in other games. Why would anyone want to sleep with everyone just to try to collect the cards? That doesn't even make any sense. You don't get a reward for collecting cards, and some of the women are simply not appealing. Can anyone refute this logic? I just don't see how this situation comes into play, and I'm all for the second one having another stylized version of an erotic scene. I don't give a damn if it's a card or not.
So true SlimI think that poster will find the new Bioware very appeaseing to his eye where as allt he women covered in granny panties and blood splashes across the screen if you blow your nose in their games now.I may only be 45 years old (which I gotta admit I think is 25+ years more then the guy saying hes 60 if we being honest, but I find the sex in The witcher refreashing and honest.Im Canadian and we learned long ago that sex is not the worst thing you can come across. Violence and brutality is much more suspect then nudity and consentual sex. American values drive me crazy and is one of the aspects I envy europe about. Their open minded vision on this topic.Now I gotta be honest, I wouldnt let my kids (if I had any) play the Witcher but I also wouldnt let them play DA:O, Mass Effect 1 or 2, Halo, Modern War and a ton of other games. Parents need to step up and do their jobs, computers and computer games are not designed to be their babysitters, for crying out loud!My brother has 3 kids, none of them into video games (other then co op wii games) because none of them allowed to play the violent ones or even play unattended on computer or game systems. Most computer games for 20-25+ year olds, not kids anyways.slimgrin said:
To Raye Gunn: Remember chapter 2 of TW1, the village on the outskirts of the city, where you met the Hell hound? Remember seeing the large areas on the other side of the numerous fences, areas you couldn't enter because your character was unable to climb a lousy fence? That was because there wasn't enough space on the DVD to render that area explorable. If the cartoon sex scenes had been removed the space left over would have enabled at least part of that area to be explorable. Maybe another dungeon could have been added.That's what I mean by a waste of space. As for the dear kiddies, I'm sure 90 percent of them wouldn't have seen anything they hadn't already seen before. Kids are really great at gathering information, especially if their parents don't want them to. I know; I raised four. The way I finally got all 4 to quit smoking was to just quit telling them they shouldn't smoke.
LOL, I stand corrected, what you want is Oblivion and Fall Out series where you can go everywhere you want, even if its not remotely connected to the game.See, I didnt want to jump the fence, I was more then satisfied with the playable area I had and I definately wouldnt have given up the romances and sex for more meaningless area.What they could have taken outta game was the few blood splatter effects, those were childish and not needed and probably in there more to pacify american style gamers then anyone else. I wouldnt have missed the blood splatter at all and if given the option will turn it off everytime as that does nothing to improve the game play or immersion in game.DanConnors said:
I already have both games, and they're great. I'm also into Dragon age and its spin offs. I like games with huge areas to play around with--the larger the area the better. When I slice my enemy's head off I like to see blood dripping from my sword/axe/mace. When I have sex I prefer to do it in person, and sex, as portrayed by a couple of cartoon characters, does absolutely nothing for me. If you enjoy it, fine. If you enjoy collecting sex cards for each of your sexual "conquests" also fine. It kind of reminds me of kids buying bubblegum so they could collect pictures of their favorite baseball players, but, hey, that's OK too.As for my age, I wish you were right.
Let's put the cartoon-sex away for a while.DanConnors said:
Concerning those fences - you would not have had much fun when you had climbed over such a fence, because this area behind it is actually just fields. It renders, but there is nothing interesting set up for sight seeing (it's merely more a 3D matte paint) in those areas - they are not even intended to walk on - there is no "navigation geometry". You can find the same thing inside Vizima Market District, some stuff really is just - scenery, like in a theatre. (I had to find it out the hard way when I tried to set up some actions there... FAIL)The first time I played, I possibly was even as annoyed as you was, when I tried in vain to get over these damn fences! I must admit, it's really tempting, especially when you've played something in a more open world before.But why it was set up this way, only a developer could answer (saving space for sex or more game story related?). ;-)
Geez, you're not my long lost brother, are you? Back to the toon sex:I honestly must admit - now you mention DA - I thought the cards in TW were a little bit more tasty than this mesh-sex (I'm sure there is a nude mod, but I played the granny-bra original one... please no links to the nude mod, I'd rather get blind! ) videos in DA. I just was always happy when it was over and when I could get back to slice some heads off.DanConnors said:
I dont think RPGs are the game style your looking for Dan (being serious here)I get the feeling, from what you stated that you want action games, immersion, emotional conflict, non violent resolution, these things dont appeal to you.You want exploration and action first and formost.See, I love the Geralt books, I just read a story where he was faced with attacking a cursed person/monster or thinking and talking his way out of the situation despite a queens request!He choose the later and I couldnt help but imagine how cool that same senario would be in a RPG.No blood, no action, no sword play, just thought, emotional connection between two sets of lovers and working out how all are served best with out resorting to violence.THATS a brilliantly written sequence for a master RPG!I get the feeling your on this new wave of so called RPG fans that like the Mass Effect 2, Fall Out 3, Oblivion. Games were talking and immersion removed and more action, faster combat is put in its place.To me, those will never be RPG titles. I dont deny you your style of gaming, I just wish you all would go back to the Action titles and quit making these demands on RPG companies in general. The two genres co existed for 2 decades now (talking computer games), I dont see why now people need to try and change RPGs into their action games? Why not instead go ask action game developers to write better backstories for your existing games?Like what is being done for Deus Ex3. Total shooter mechanics but with story and immersion to a degree that even me, a die hard RPGer is interested in it! But what you will never see me do is go to a action developer and tell them they need to focus more on the characters feelings in game at the cost the action.Sex in a RPG is not about 2 pixal characters bumping ugly, its about the emotional connection and developement of the characters involved! I get the feeling you dont understand this, all you see is the physical when RPGs see the immmersion, the development, the emotional connention of the characters. Its not about "getting off" on it. There is more then enough porn on internet for people that want to do that. The sec cards, the relationships (long and short term) are about creating a character, a personality, and forming a connection to those characters.Thats why to me (and probably most others here im guessing (but dont want to speak for)) the sex cards are far more important to have in game then the ability to hop some fence into a feild just because its there. I accept there is a playable and non playable area and will work with what im given as long as the developer holds up his/her end of the deal and gives me detailed and immersive characters that I can interact with (be it talk to, gamble with, drink with, or have sex with). Its all about the character and the immersion.This is what the new age fanbois that cheer about the dumbing down of RPGs today dont understand and what makes CDProjekt a breath of fresh air.
I deeply thank each and every one who bothered to drop in his/her opinion about my humble request. Please, dear friends, allow me some notifications:A] For Dear God sake, I didn't ask for the sex-scenes to be removed!! I, THE POOR MAN, ONLY ASKED FOR THE SEX-SCENES TO BE AN OPTION !!!!!!! What more logical than this? What could serve the personal taste (or personal ideals, in my case) more? AN OPTION, ladies and gents! What else could be more democratic? In many of your replies, I noticed the phrases: "period", "end of story", "that's it" etc. Well, nicely expressed -still remind me of dictatorship-like attitudes...B] One of you, dear friends, asked why don't I concern about the porno's (TV,Cine, Books etc), the other XXX games, the Nude-Olympics, the nudists at Canes-FRANCE, the couple next door who don't shut firmly their windows while "in mood" etc etc. I tell you why. Because, IT (I mean the honest, moral concern about the MESSAGES and the IMAGES, even toon-like, that put the children aotw under HEAVY BOMBARDMENT) should be started from SOMEWHERE. And why not from a superbly constructed PC game, very very VERY popular (especially among CHILDREN, maybe YOUR CHILDREN -and matie, don't get surprised when your little son exits his room whistling the main theme from TW!) and widely advertised and spread?C] All of you dears, admit the TRUE FACTS (scientific facts) that I shared with you. Did you notice the main question under my words? NO? Well, I'll tell you. The main question is: WHO THE HELL IS MAKING MONEY (REALLY BIG MONEY!) UPON THE CHILDISH SHOULDERS??? Think about it: 65% of the pc games' ADDICTS (what a deep tragedy...) are aged 9-14!!! (and, NO, dear friend: this 65% don't play PAC-MAN! they go directly for "the real thing"). What a wonderful world! (isn't it, uncle Louis?). Well, I have a say for those arguing "let it be, don't mess morality with entertainment, leave us alone, leave things as they are...": OK DUDES! Let us all leave the things, the situations, the songs, the games, OUR LIFE, as some "good fellows" want them (and planned them) to be. BUT, when you 'll wake up a certain morning, just to find out that our society, our world is full of MONSTERS (not virtual...), well maties, then CALL GERALT TO SAVE YOU!!!D] I, especially, thank the gentle, though tired, Lady "secondchildren". Yes, my Lady, this is my immediate impression: you have made your own struggles, your own crusades and now just feel tired; not disappointed (otherwise you wouldn't have wished me "good luck with your crusade") but tired. I want to express to you my heartfelt congratulations for involving with the children. The children... our last, our ONLY hope... Wanna know sth? I know I won't achieve sth significant. I just wanted to have my shot, THAT'S ALL. And, of course, as a well experienced sociologist (and not only) I very well know that it's more useful and effective for someone to drop on their knees and warmly pray for the world's children, than arguing in Geralt's forum... But, I told you: I just wanted to have my shot!So, I had it, and thank you all for this!E] "...Don't leave the children on their own... BRING THE BOYS BACK HOME!!!" Pink Floyd, the great ones. LOL (as Lots Of Love) to each and every one of you!
There's something in what you say; there has to be action in any RPG I buy. As for the question "Is it action or RPG?" there is a wide, indistinct line between the two styles (my opinion). My question is, does the sex actually contribute to game immersion?Like everyone else I hopped into the sack with Trish, the redhead, the witch, the bar wench, and probably a few others I've forgotten. The first time around it was amusing. The second time through it was boring. I knew exactly what to say to all of them to get them to go to bed. Also, even the first time through, it was just way too easy. I was not ugly as a youth, but I remember the pursuit of sex was practically a full time occupation (full time for the weekends at least) often with bitter failure as the only result. That's where the old saying "The chase is 90 percent of the fun." comes from. Remove the chase (as happens when you get married) and there goes most of the fun (apologies to my long divorced ex-wife).The violence, however was always different. Change the difficulty setting, and the fights get harder (or easier). Reach the highest original game setting and still finding it too easy? Download Flash's beautiful insane difficulty mods (thanks for those, Flash).As for, is it RPG or action? My opinion of the original gold box series by SSI was that they were mostly RPG. They were immersive, interesting, replayable, and, of course, absolutely sexless.
I feel like I can't even comment on this thread anymore, because i simply don't take it seriously in the least....I mean just ..........WOW. The reason you can't jump the fucking fence in the Witcher is not because the sex scenes took up too much space on the disc drives. Go look at the files in your program files, they took up no more than 50mb. Which doesn't change jack shlt about the game. I can't disagree with Dan Connors more about ANYTHING in life. You act like the people who are proponents of the sex in the game are jerkin it to this stuff. Not one time did I even get wood from these scenes, but I'm still VERY glad they're in there. Someone just sounds like he needs to play some more God of War and some less RPGs. O wait, God of War has sex minigames. Sorry. Bayonetta? Wait, her special move causes her clothes to come off.......Hmmm, let's thing hard about this one. NINJA GAIDEN BRO, here's your game. All blood and guts, and none of the subtleties that make us RPG lovers........love RPGs.
Yes, and one point I just can agree with Dan is, the girl hunt was not challenging enough, but perhaps that would also be getting a bit too far. Honestly, if I had had the option I'd have chosen neither Triss nor Shani, but sigh, Abigail didn't plan to stay with me, so what should I do?fchopin said:
To: Buster KunIf you feel you can't comment any more on this thread do us all a favor--don't.I can pick and chose my games without your suggestions. I enjoyed TW1 immensely, but not because of the sexual content. What I enjoyed was the dark and brooding atmosphere of the whole game, almost Gothic in quality. The notion that there were hidden, but very powerful, groups pulling most of the strings in the game, groups my PC could only dimly comprehend, and could do virtually nothing about, impressed me very much. To me that is the mature content of the game. The sex seems to have been put there to attract the teenage audience; I would classify it as adolescent content.My choices of favorite games are not limited to a single genre. I have greatly enjoyed games as varied as the Total War series, Baldur's Gate, Panzer Generals 1, 2, and 3, The 3 Fallouts, Oblivion, and, lately, the Dragon Age series. I believe limiting myself to a single style of computer game would have removed many pleasurable hours from my computer gaming.I know enough to realize that my opinions will have absolutely no effect on the next Witcher game. That's not what the forum's for. It's just another type of CRPG, a game where you play yourself.
I don't have anything to argue there. It's just that I was so discombobulated over the whole conversation/thread that I didn't even know where to start. Really my frustration was stemming more from the feminism side of things, I really don't like the insecure people that act like everyone is always trying to offend them. I can't stress enough that the cards were not there to be "collectibles," or to let some pre pubescent teens wank off to them. I think most people just fail to see this, which is kind of ridiculous. TBH I just can't believe that it's worth having a convo over. I mean, there are plenty of aspects more central to the core of the game itself that need to be discussed and talked about. It annoys me that people would attempt to tell the devs to remove a portion of the style from their game for whatever reason.
I'm not sure where you're getting "feminism" from, since the people who've been arguing that sex in games is bad seem to be mostly men. "Dan Connors" sounds like a man's name to me, and PRFPRF has referred to himself as a "poor man," so I think the main stop-the-sex posters are men.I'm a woman and a feminist and an American ... and I hope there's MORE sex in The Witcher 2.Buster-kun said: