(unpopular?) opinion: not fully resetting gwent after the HC launch was a bad idea.

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By fully resetting I mean wiping every players existing progress in levels, rank, any other unlocks (except maybe cosmetics that show you were a part of the beta) and most importantly everybody's full card collection. Bought kegs would of course have to be reinstated (not reimbursed, CDPR wouldn't have to actually give back the money just to be clear).

Not having done this has (1.) made Gwent problematic from a business perspective for CDPR (2.) made Gwent less enjoyable for a certain type of player (3.) elevated the threshold for new players, which contributes to (1.)

(1.) I don't have any official numbers or sources on this but putting some things together I'd say it's safe to assume Gwent isn't a monster succes. With just a few handfuls of ranked battles played last season (and no other activity) and an MMr of 486 I was globally ranked as at around 37,000. Meaning the people below me probably didn't play any Gwent at all and the first 10K or more of players above me also didn't play much more than a modest amount. Unless there's tons of people playing only casual or arena it's not looking too good for Gwent. My guess is that most people still playing now are here from the beta and there's little influx of new players. Now, after the jump to HC we got the full value of all milled cards even though there are now less cards to craft. Meaning players who had unfinished collections were able to get proportionally more out of their resources and were able to get closer to finishing their collection without having to do any effort. Than there are the players who've been sitting on tons of scraps since the beta and are now sitting on even more scrap. And of course the high level of generosity from CDPR in rewards and resources as another major factor. The result now is a stagnant player base that has zero motivations to buy kegs with real money. The recent economy changes, no more crafting premiums with scrap or full value mills, seem to be some indication that they're re-evaluating their business model and a first consequence of Gwent not making enough profit. More consequences will likely follow if nothing changes.

(2.) Generally there's 2 types of gamers. Competitive players who're only interested in the high level endgame content of any game and people who enjoy the road there unlocking things and slowly growing, and this goes for both multi- and singleplayer games. For the latter type of players (who came from the beta) most of the potential fun to be had in Gwent has been completely negated. Instead of the Gwent playerbase slowly exploring the new meta and moving from archetype to archetype, where every new begotten card offers new opportunities and players' decks evolve slowly, almost the entire gwent playerbase has immediate jumped to the endgame. Again, because of there now being less cards and more reward opportunities most players were able to craft the full collection from the start. And because it's overwhelming to make a deck when you've got all the cards to choose from not yet knowing what they do or how to play yet, I think a lot more players resorted to 'netdecking'. There's probably a lot of good ideas for decks that weren't explored enough or too quickly deemed not viable because there was no slow organic growth of a new meta in HC. These ideas might never see the light of day because no players traveled a route that led past them. In fact there were no "routes", everybody instantly arrived at the destination.

(3.) All of this results in a much higher overall difficulty for new players. In vintage Gwent I never had tier 1 decks, none of my faction collections were complete, missing a lot of golds and silvers and most of my decks even had Geralt and Tris still in them. And I never netdecked once. Despite that I was able to attain rank 18. Now most of my faction collections plus the neutrals are complete, I can make any deck I want within those factions. I made some straightforward but powerful decks yet I can't get past rank 25. Sure I'll admit it none of my decks are tier 1, because I don't want to netdeck, but they should get me a lot further. Seeing as I have access to all the cards within that faction to choose from and I didn't just throw something together but made an effort to combine the best possible cards. It seems to me you have to be a top notch player just to get past the first few ranks now. So for new players, starting out with those woefully inadequate starting decks playing Gwent must feel like hitting a brick wall. This obviously will not help Gwent and only worsen the things explained in paragraph 1.

Had CDPR done a full reset, they would likely see more revenue and attract more new lasting players. There would of course have been the risk of chasing away long time players, and I'm sure a lot of people will think a reset a terrible idea, but I think an equally large number of people would have appreciated a clean slate for everyone.

Thoughts?
 
Yes, very unpopular indeed. You can't just erase people two years worth of achievments. We are maybe forgetting that old players were new players with just a starter collection, just as the new players are now. And the new players, just as the old ones did, have to earn their cards and premiums.

How is it fair for old players to have grind twice something that they already had, when they also were supporting the development of a beta game?

Besides, it is not even hard to get a decent viable collection. You can't just start playing the game and pretend having all competitive decks for all 5 factions, none of us did, we worked for our cards, and played a few hours for getting them. The reward trees, and dialy quests give more than enough resources for getting all the cards you need in a reasonable amount of time.
 
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4RM3D

Ex-moderator
First of all, why does everything have to be either black or white? Yes, CDPR has been far too generous. That's one of the few things most people agree with. Yet, doing a 180 and resetting everything might be a bit too much in the opposite direction. A fairer solution would have been to not give full scrap value for the surplus of cards or just give 50% of the total collected resources or something like that, you know, a middle road.

Next, you talk about new player experiences, but those players are together in a bubble and don't really notice much from the beta crowd. Stripping long time players of all their (hard) earned resources will have a bigger negative effect on the old players, than a positive effect on the new ones. Not to mention, any new player can quickly make a top tier deck, anyhow.

Thus surmising that a full reset would have done more harm than good. Also, in light of recent events regarding economic changes, players are upset enough already.
 
Not having done this has (1.) made Gwent problematic from a business perspective for CDPR (2.) made Gwent less enjoyable for a certain type of player (3.) elevated the threshold for new players, which contributes to (1.)

There's one reply to all 3 points: the majority of old beta players already left (or still linger on forums hoping for something), because HC in its current state is a shallow form of Gwent we loved. So what you listed are not issues at all.

Isn't it enough they totally reworked the game we beta tested for almost 2 years?

But frankly, I am totally ok with a wipe if CDPR brings back beta Gwent. Not gonna happen, unfortunately.
 
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Yes, very unpopular indeed. You can't just erase people two years worth of achievments. We are maybe forgetting that old players were new players with just a starter collection, just as the new players are now. And the new players, just as the old ones did, have to earn their cards and premiums.

How is it fair for old players to have grind twice something that they already had, when they also were supporting the development of a beta game?

Besides, it is not even hard to get a decent viable collection. You can't just start playing the game and pretend having all competitive decks for all 5 factions, none of us did, we worked for our cards, and played a few hours for getting them. The reward trees, and dialy quests give more than enough resources for getting all the cards you need in a reasonable amount of time.

Well they kind of can and eventually they will, since all achievements and unlocks in an online multiplayer game are temporary anyway and completely under the control of the company, they only last until the developers/publishers pull the plug out of the servers.

Seeing as Gwent is practically a new game since HC it wouldn't really count as doing the same grind twice IMO. Why should players have to be rewarded in the current version of the game, only because of their skill and achievements in a now defunct version of the game. New meta, new rules, new required skills and strategies. You should only be rewarded in a game for what you achieve in said game, not in the previous game. At the start of HC none of the beta players had proven themselves yet were rewarded with everything carrying over. It's like for example new Call of duty 3 players would automatically prestige because they did so in Call of duty 2 whithout playing a single match in COD 3.
 

_Kili_

Forum regular
Also, since CDPR have specifically stated they will not reset players collections/unlocked stuff they would have lost all credibility that they once had if they would've reset beta players
 
Also, since CDPR have specifically stated they will not reset players collections/unlocked stuff they would have lost all credibility that they once had if they would've reset beta players

CDPR also stated "Skill beats luck" and that there will not be RNG cards in Gwent.

By the way, during the CBT they were avoiding the question about progress reset. And only announced there will be a reset 2-3 months before the end of the CBT. Perhaps they were looking for ways not to reset, but eventually decided knowledge of the game is enough of a head start.
 
Well they kind of can and eventually they will, since all achievements and unlocks in an online multiplayer game are temporary anyway and completely under the control of the company, they only last until the developers/publishers pull the plug out of the servers.

Seeing as Gwent is practically a new game since HC it wouldn't really count as doing the same grind twice IMO. Why should players have to be rewarded in the current version of the game, only because of their skill and achievements in a now defunct version of the game. New meta, new rules, new required skills and strategies. You should only be rewarded in a game for what you achieve in said game, not in the previous game. At the start of HC none of the beta players had proven themselves yet were rewarded with everything carrying over. It's like for example new Call of duty 3 players would automatically prestige because they did so in Call of duty 2 whithout playing a single match in COD 3.

You are asuming the game is a different one, when it's actually the same. This is not Gwent 2, is Gwent, Homecoming was a major update to the game, not the release of a new game. You can't just wipe the cards that people got not only by playtime but with cash, that's just wrong. Take your time, learn the mechanics, grind the game if you want to, and eventually you will have a decent collection, but asking for shortcuts sounds very selfish.
 
Horrible idea.

If they had wiped all my cards I would have immediately deleted the game and never visited this forum again. True story.
 
Seeing as Gwent is practically a new game since HC it wouldn't really count as doing the same grind twice IMO. Why should players have to be rewarded in the current version of the game, only because of their skill and achievements in a now defunct version of the game. New meta, new rules, new required skills and strategies. You should only be rewarded in a game for what you achieve in said game, not in the previous game. At the start of HC none of the beta players had proven themselves yet were rewarded with everything carrying over. It's like for example new Call of duty 3 players would automatically prestige because they did so in Call of duty 2 whithout playing a single match in COD 3.

It's a reward for "testing" the game in beta. That or consolation for the full mill/economy shenanigans/returning Gwent to it's roots. Depends how you look at it :). I'd add, as much as the game has changed it still relies on the same knowledge to play properly.

In regards to this thread overall...

I think the issue with new players is the quality of the starter decks. Those could probably be strengthened somehow.

The other issue is new players probably don't know what to build toward. The card pool is all over the place. Some cards are really good. Some are reasonable. A lot of them are complete shit :). Every time I enter the deck builder I can't help but run through the, "How about this? Nope, bad card....", "Maybe this card? No, that card sucks....", "Why does this card cost this many provisions? Bad card....", "Ah, here we go... this card is busted, in the deck it goes.", "Oh, cool... if I play this here and the other player doesn't stop it they're totally fucked... Let's do it."....
 
First, a bit of closed beta player perspective.
I have to agree that a complete wipe would have done a lot more bad than good. Especially since there already was one such wipe, when the game moved from closed to open beta. Now, I never had a problem with that (and from what I recall not many people did), but resetting everything twice would have been too much.

Even disregarding all of the above, it's a fact that open beta was a very long period of time, with players having hundreds of hours clocked. That's a lot of time spent playing the game, and it sure would have felt bad if all of that had been erased at launch. Well, not to everyone, but many, many players would have felt that way. Time isn't money, but it does have its value.
It was also stated (during open beta), multiple times, that a second full reset was not planned. While 'not planned' =/= 'will not happen', its being stated every time the question arose definitely had weight.

The transition that we got was, in my opinion, a good compromise. Resetting everything would have been bad, and not resetting anything would have been bad.
 
... This is not Gwent 2, is Gwent, Homecoming was a major update to the game, not the release of a new game...
Are you funny serious? There a chance you fell from the sky or something?

Jiminy Crickets.

About people complaining that players who played for TWO FULL YEARS should have had a "fair start" with newcomers: you realize how idiotic this sounds (especially after the dump CDPR took with HC76)? How about reseting our collections every month? That would be even more fair for newer players.
 
Are you funny serious? There a chance you fell from the sky or something?

Jiminy Crickets.

About people complaining that players who played for TWO FULL YEARS should have had a "fair start" with newcomers: you realize how idiotic this sounds (especially after the dump CDPR took with HC76)? How about reseting our collections every month? That would be even more fair for newer players.

Do you realize how giving beta players so much scrap has made the economy of the game unbalanced? So much that they had to go in and change how you can get premium cards? Doing a beta for so long was the first mistake. Changing the game so much to the point that it is a new game was the second mistake. Giving the beta players so much scrap was the third. They could have given them some premium cards, set amount of scrap or something and prevented this whole fiasco.
 
Do you realize how giving beta players so much scrap has made the economy of the game unbalanced? So much that they had to go in and change how you can get premium cards? Doing a beta for so long was the first mistake. Changing the game so much to the point that it is a new game was the second mistake. Giving the beta players so much scrap was the third. They could have given them some premium cards, set amount of scrap and prevented this whole fiasco.

I don't know why they chose to give players full mill value. I never wanted them to mill my cards in the first place. Honestly I am so used to CDPR making weird/bad decisions that it's completely normal now. Just waiting for the next strange thing they do.
 
I think the issue with new players is the quality of the starter decks. Those could probably be strengthened somehow.
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This. Honestly the starter decks are a joke. They in no way help the new players do anything. Another thing giving beta players so much scrap has lead to is that there is not really many options for budget decks on the net. Every deck you see if fill to the brim with golden and expensive cards, which makes it so difficult for new players to get some ideas to build a good cheap deck.
 
Do you realize how giving beta players so much scrap has made the economy of the game unbalanced?

What do you mean by unbalanced? I'm guessing this is hinting at the fact beta veterans don't have much use for gaining more in-game resources because they can't really use them. As cards get added, if it ever happens, this will likely slowly stop being the case. Likewise, they may be banking on new players having incentives to pay money so they don't have to be cannon fodder for months while relying on Peasant Militia, Wolf Packs and Bone Talismans.

So much that they had to go in and change how you can get premium cards?

I'd wager those changes were decided upon well in advance.

Changing the game so much to the point that it is a new game was the second mistake.

I mean.... any long-time beta player should have been used to it. Literally every major patch made it feel like a new game. So the arguments complaining about this from beta players have always been a bit odd. It's one thing if it's based on the argument the game play in HC sucks. Whether that is true is a matter of opinion. It's another if it's only because it's different.

Giving the beta players so much scrap was the third. They could have given them some premium cards, set amount of scrap and prevented this whole fiasco.

As has been pointed out doing so probably would have done more harm. People tested the game, stuck around through Midwinter, the extended wait for HC, potentially paid money while testing an unfinished product, etc. Keeping whatever they earned over that time only seems right.

Ideally the release of HC would have brought in enough new blood such that there would be enough instances of new players facing other new players. Instead of new players constantly running into fully fleshed out god tier decks. If the latter of the two is the case, and I'm not saying it is or is not, it's probably not a good sign.
 
Do you realize how giving beta players so much scrap has made the economy of the game unbalanced? So much that they had to go in and change how you can get premium cards? Doing a beta for so long was the first mistake. Changing the game so much to the point that it is a new game was the second mistake. Giving the beta players so much scrap was the third. They could have given them some premium cards, set amount of scrap or something and prevented this whole fiasco.
What you are saying here is ANYONE who plays this game for extended period of time puts all new players in disadvantage, so he deserves his entire collection to be milled periodically?

The first mistake of CDPR was they stopped releasing new cards, so veteran players can spent their resources.

Second is in HC we have less cards than we had in Gwent.

Third is THEY milled OUR hard earned cards for SCRAPS and a month later implemented the new Economy system (and this is what me and everybody else are so PISSED about - not for the system itself). Is this not an F off enough in our faces for you and anybody else, who says we have an "unfair advantige through playing OPEN Beta"?
 
What do you mean by unbalanced? I'm guessing this is hinting at the fact beta veterans don't have much use for gaining more in-game resources because they can't really use them. As cards get added, if it ever happens, this will likely slowly stop being the case. Likewise, they may be banking on new players having incentives to pay money so they don't have to be cannon fodder for months while relying on Peasant Militia, Wolf Packs and Bone Talismans.

I'd wager those changes were decided upon well in advance.

I mean.... any long-time beta player should have been used to it. Literally every major patch made it feel like a new game. So the arguments complaining about this from beta players have always been a bit odd. It's one thing if it's based on the argument the game play in HC sucks. Whether that is true is a matter of opinion. It's another if it's only because it's different.

As has been pointed out doing so probably would have done more harm. People tested the game, stuck around through Midwinter, the extended wait for HC, potentially paid money while testing an unfinished product, etc. Keeping whatever they earned over that time only seems right.

Ideally the release of HC would have brought in enough new blood such that there would be enough instances of new players facing other new players. Instead of new players constantly running into fully fleshed out god tier decks. If the latter of the two is the case, and I'm not saying it is or is not, it's probably not a good sign.

"probably" "I wager", so you dont know. What I am seeing is that beta players are not happy, for whatever reason which I do not care. The only thing I am seeing is that them being flush with scraps is becoming a problem for the game and new players. This is probably too harsh, but maybe them leaving the new Gwent will be a positive effect in the long run.
 
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