Usurper Balance Suggestion

[rrc]

There are multiple threads already discussing Usurper, but I want to create this new thread with what I think is the best balance/fix for Usurper. After Open PTR, I suggested that Usurper should have 0 mulligan and should always go first and destroys the TA and activate his ability (Making the opponent leader a good looking 3D model object which is totally useless). That way he always gets a mulligan. I still think it is the right thing to do with Usurper. But seeing that he has gotten 1 mulligan charge and with 50% probability to get 2 mulligan charges, he is an unfair leader (I am not saying he is OP or broken. But simply unfair. To get 2 mulligan charges, the same as most of the strong enemy leaders, while completely destroying their ability, is unfair).

So, my suggestion to fix Usurper is, "Give 3 additional mulligan charges to the enemy leader and cancel his/her ability for the rest of the battle". When Usurper builds his deck, he has the knowledge that his Leader is useless (Yes, useless in the sense, he doesn't have any synergy with any card). So, from the deck building, Usurper has an advantage. Enemy leaders have varying mulligans because of their innate and activated abilities and builds deck with respect to that. Now, when Usurper cancels that, it should be compensated in some way. After thinking a lot about Usurper, I think this is the best way to balance Usurper. He is still going to make the enemy leader useless, but at least the opponent now has more chance to draw the card he/she would need for the lack of synergy that has been imposed suddenly in the battle (which was not present during deck building).

So, it doesn't immediately kill the fun of the player who has to face Usurper; he/she can be content that at least they get +3 mulligan charges which would compensate the lack of leaders. This will also make Usurper players happy when they see another Usurper as they are both going to get +3 mulligan charges for free.

[This will make mandatory that all Usuper player run Letho which is also in sync with Usurper's game plan.]

 

[4RM3D]

A pre-emptive note: This thread is for specific suggestions only. For general discussions please use the following thread: Usurper is broken with 2 mulligans

 

[ardeathwing]

This also infers Letho should be changed too because he can simply crap all of your mulligans on turn 1.

 

[BoYoDes]

You realize he must be playable, right?

 

[DankTemplar]

I don't see a problem with Usurper beyond totally shafting certain leaders, like Arachas Queen. You get 1 mulligan and no leader combo potential.

The problem imo is Letho, stripping the opponent of all their mulligans is a bit much in combination with Usurper.

I think Letho of Gulet should just be changed to have a totally different effect, that aline would probably fix the anti fun that is Usurper.dek

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Give Usurper a completely different ability. Remove "disable leader" effects from the game. Fixed.

 

[jgolden234]

I tried playing usurper and it is not easy to win with. It is frustrating to run into as other leaders, but it is beatable because it tends to have low tempo. So while it is annoying I am inclined to say it is ok the way it is.

 

[Archan6el]

I really don't understand why CDPR seems to willingly introduce stuff that ruins fun for at least one player. Usurper is such a thing. With the recent buff of NG and all the "Banish" cards they now have, Usurper is very strong with the "Total Lame Package" of Couriers, Viper Witchers, Traheaern, Deithwen Arbalests and Cantarella. After many complaints about the BS Viper Witchers and Traheaern RNG, CDPR decided to introduce Courier so that they can get more consistent OP value, working quite well with Usurper to deny you your leader and strongest cards. Thank you CDPR for stimulating people who have fun taking fun from others. Why don't you seem to get that this is bad (in general)?

 

[ElricVIII]

I think an elegant fix to him might be changing him to have a 1/game order of "disable your opponent's leader ability this round."

This has a rattlesnake effect that forces your opponent to expend his leader ability in the early rounds or risk losing it completely on the third round. It can also be used to push a first round win if your opponent tries to set up an engine.

You would also need to increase his bonus provisions, as I assume the low value is meant to balance the loss of virtual provisions from a negated leader ability of the opponents' decks.

 

[Archan6el]

I think an elegant fix to him might be changing him to have a 1/game order of "disable your opponent's leader ability this round."

This has a rattlesnake effect that forces your opponent to expend his leader ability in the early rounds or risk losing it completely on the third round. It can also be used to push a first round win if your opponent tries to set up an engine.

You would also need to increase his bonus provisions, as I assume the low value is meant to balance the loss of virtual provisions from a negated leader ability of the opponents' decks.

Maybe the best and most fitting option for Usurper is to let him copy the leader ability of the opponent. Then he would be perfect for Assimilate decks.

 

[4RM3D]

Maybe the best and most fitting option for Usurper is to let him copy the leader ability of the opponent. Then he would be perfect for Assimilate decks.

So, what would happen in a Usurper mirror then? More importantly, it would render the leader useless in too many cases.

 

[Lexor]

I really don't understand why CDPR seems to willingly introduce stuff that ruins fun for at least one player. Usurper is such a thing.

All enemy leaders are "such a thing". Why does Crach "ruin fun" by decreasing strength of my units? Why does Meve "ruin fun" by making her units harder to kill? Why does Calveit "ruin fun" by playing two cards on the same turn? etc.

Just disable all leaders. /s

 

[Archan6el]

So, what would happen in a Usurper mirror then?

Nothing. Like now.

More importantly, it would render the leader useless in too many cases

It would make him less useless than he is now and not at all useless for Assimilate. You can even increase his provisions a bit.

All enemy leaders are "such a thing". Why does Crach "ruin fun" by decreasing strength of my units? Why does Meve "ruin fun" by making her units harder to kill? Why does Calveit "ruin fun" by playing two cards on the same turn? etc.

Just disable all leaders. /s

Ruin fun by disabling a leader ability and leader-deck synergy. I thought that was clear.

 

[Guest 4305932]

It would be worse than Anna in Assimilate

I really hope they will not change things because of perceived fun.

 

[RaynStargaze]

Since we are already bumping this thread from 2018.

I think Usurper is bad for the game. Period.

It makes some leaders straight up unplayable. Leaders like Crach, Unseen elder and whatever the fruit monster guy is whose leader abilities heavily rely on deck synergy to be useful. You cant play that deck. Ever.

if you think a leader is too strong just nerf it. Dont have this bandaid fix that isnt a real bandaid because even when leader synergy decks arent meta you still play usurper if you play NG.

Usurper is always optimal. There is no interaction with the board or anything else here. You just build your deck with no leader and at worst you remove whatever points your opponents leader ability gave him. Most of the time removing additional synergy.

Usurper is what Spellatel used to be (admittedly to a lesser extent). Just remove the aspect of deckbuilding and planning for your opponent and force him to play your game. And we removed spellatel so why is this guy here?

Thank lord nilfgaard is just kinda meh right now. Its the ultimate anti fun button

 

[4RM3D]

It would make him less useless than he is now [...]

Ruin fun by disabling a leader ability and leader-deck synergy.

Usurper might ruin the fun, but he isn't useless.

 

[Guest 4305932]

Usurper is always optimal.

Not really, you negate additional synergy and power for yourself as well and you lose a relevant amount of provision. I have never seen a prevalence of Usurper for NG decks

 

[RaynStargaze]

I still cant quote for some reason but @ Kallor

That is incorrect. It is always optimal because YOU can consider not having a leader when building your deck which means you can optimize for synergy without leader. YOU have OPTIMAL synergy for your deck. Only your opponent loses out.

 

[Guest 4305932]

I still cant quote for some reason but @ Kallor

That is incorrect. It is always optimal because YOU can consider not having a leader when building your deck which means you can optimize for synergy without leader. YOU have OPTIMAL synergy for your deck. Only your opponent loses out.

But what you can do without a leader you could do it better with a leader and you still lose provision on top of that. It's not always optimal. It can be great against leader focused deck but it's orrible against deck who can work around it. And everyone can deck build their deck taking Usurper in consideration

 

[RaynStargaze]

The provision system right now is not relevant enough to matter. Losing 6 provisions is almost meaningless. Balance hinges much more on individual power of cards that factions have at their disposal.

I dont know how to make the average forum user see that building your deck knowing you dont have a leader and denying every form of synergy your opponent could get (especially against leaders that heavily rely on synergy as i pointed out) is much much much better than having a leader ability could ever be (assuming some semblance of a balanced game).

It is good nilfgaard sucks like i said. If we give them good cards its going to be worse.

edit: Like think about it like this: You just told me that everything i can do with my deck i can do better if i build it with a different leader and synergy right? Thats right i can do that.
But then the other guy just picks usurper and i lose all of that and suddenly have cards that are plain bad because i lose out on a huge activator while the other guy just made an optimal deck in the first place. And if i build my NON USURPER deck WITHOUT LEADER SYNERGY in mind then i just lose to everything else.

Its literally a slightly less obnoxious spellatel.