Usurper is broken with 2 mulligans

[rrc]

I have been vehemently opposing the idea of Usurper from open beta, but as I have said before, he is a leader Gwent doesn't deserve, but what Gwent needs. After facing back to back (now nearly killed Eithnè) artifact-epidemic-scorch-regis-shirru I played Usurper for some time. Just to piss off the possible Eithnè opponents. He is not OP neither he is strong. He is just a pain in the back and annoying as hell when you face him. Just remember that the Usurper player was so pissed about some leader ability that he decided to play an unfun deck just to escape powerful broken leaders.

With 0 Mulligan, probably many didnt play him and they just wanted to give a chance.

Viper Witchers are annoying as hell, but not broken or OP. He is not even 4 provision card. I hesitate to add him as sometimes I get him in R3 and sometimes I banish their filler junk cards. He is a high risk and low reward card. If he is to be nerfed to send to GY or something, his provision should be reduced to balance out.

Letho.. a unique card. He is a freaking 11 provision card with 4 power. He is twice the risk than VW to be included in the deck. Just try to add him in the deck and see. I am sure you will replace him with some other card. So, if someone includes that card and manage to remove your 4 provision, he deserves that.

I always hated NG pre HC (with VW, Reveal, Handbuff), but in HC they are unique and nice. Everyone wants faction identity right? It is NGs faction identity, to mess up with other people's deck directly. When monsters can do 10 provision 10 power card and SK can do 8 provision 3 Mulligan cards, NG can mess up with enemy decks paying dearly for that of course (including leaders).

 

[Que-Hegan]

[...] Usurper player was so pissed about some leader ability that he decided to play an unfun deck just to escape powerful broken leaders. [...]

When it comes down to Usurper, it's not about winning or losing anymore, it's about to deliver a message "If i don't have fun, so do you"
P/s: @rrc: Did you just assume Usurper player's gender?

 

[ardeathwing]

So everybody agrees it's THE troll leader. Needed because, according to the guys that defend him, the game sucks and will always suck. So you want to troll every now and then when you had enough of the game sucking.
Such a great community we have.
Shame on all of you.

 

[Bracala]

I never said they weren't neutral. What difference does that make? That arguably makes it worse. A broken RNG card that only one faction can use?

That doesn't really make a difference either. Any card has a chance of not being played. That doesn't change the balancing or answer the question if it's good design.

Yeah. It's RNG like I said. That doesn't make the card any better. Do you think Gascon is a well designed card as well?

Use an artifact when people are teching against them? Not exactly a great counter.

Yeah every card with unique effect and design adds versatility to game which makes game better.

Whats wrong with using artifacts, there are many cards that can destroy artifacts including neutral. People complaining about artifacts should take lost like a real man instead of whining [nope] and blaiming developer . So don't complain boi be better.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2018

So everybody agrees it's THE troll leader. Needed because, according to the guys that defend him, the game sucks and will always suck. So you want to troll every now and then when you had enough of the game sucking.
Such a great community we have.
Shame on all of you.

No they don't its leader with unique ability . He together with Letho , Cynthia , Viper witchers,Infiltrators allows players to use different strategies like countering opponent tactics and messing with their deck.

Fact that this strategy exist adds great deversity to the game .You and others don't liking it is different matter.

Its pretty simple _

More diffferent strategies = better and more versatile game.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Yeah every card with unique effect and design adds versatility to game which makes game better.

That's definitely not absolute. Just because something is unique doesn't mean it's going to make the game better or more versatile. I don't know how a card which uses RNG to literally strip cards out of your deck can be considered good game design. All that is going to lead to is players getting angry that the other guy hit the RNG lottery and their deck was stripped of an essential gold card. I would argue that unbalances the game and makes it less fun for most players. That kind of RNG is also something the devs claimed they were going to avoid in their letter to the players. RNG cards like that is the opposite of "focusing on player skill". I'll ask again, do you also like Gascon?

Whats wrong with using artifacts, there are many cards that can destroy artifacts including neutral. People complaining about artifacts should take lost like a real man instead of whining [nope] and blaiming developer . So don't complain boi be better.

I have no desire to use artifacts when much of the time the other player is going to wipe it from the board which will cost me points in the end. I don't think artifacts are well designed cards either which is why the devs right now are trying to figure out what to do with them. They are considering adding armor to them because they don't fit well into the game right now. I would prefer they get reworked completely.

That's funny. I don't complain about losing to artifacts because in fact I haven't really lost to them yet. My main deck has multiple artifact counters so I think it's funny to destroy them. I just think they are poorly designed cards that make the game worse and take up design space. Those cards could be doing something good for the game instead of just being the trash that they are.

 

[Bracala]

That's definitely not absolute. Just because something is unique doesn't mean it's going to make the game better or more versatile. I don't know how a card which uses RNG to literally strip cards out of your deck can be considered good game design. All that is going to lead to is players getting angry that the other guy hit the RNG lottery and their deck was stripped of an essential gold card. I would argue that unbalances the game and makes it less fun for most players. That kind of RNG is also something the devs claimed they were going to avoid in their letter to the players. RNG cards like that is the opposite of "focusing on player skill". I'll ask again, do you also like Gascon?



I have no desire to use artifacts when much of the time the other player is going to wipe it from the board which will cost me points in the end. I don't think artifacts are well designed cards either which is why the devs right now are trying to figure out what to do with them. They are considering adding armor to them because they don't fit well into the game right now. I would prefer they get reworked completely.

That's funny. I don't complain about losing to artifacts because in fact I haven't really lost to them yet. My main deck has multiple artifact counters so I think it's funny to destroy them. I just think they are poorly designed cards that make the game worse and take up design space. Those cards could be doing something good for the game instead of just being the trash that they are.

Viper witcher banishing gold card may make opponent angry but on other side it will make user extremely happy part you are ignoring what is trash to someone it can be other man treasure. Viper witcher card effect being based on luck, so what ??? Entire game is based on luck and cards you got , don't really see any problem here.

I don't have reasons to complain about Gascon ability, you take the risk, you can be rewarded or punished for that nothing wrong with card.

Not sure what to say about artifacts only one I use are with Scoiatel because all traps are artifact cards.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Viper witcher banishing gold card may make opponent angry but on other side it will make user extremely happy part you are ignoring what is trash to someone it can be other man treasure. Viper witcher card effect being based on luck, so what ??? Entire game is based on luck and cards you got , don't really see any problem here.

I don't have reasons to complain about Gascon ability, you take the risk, you can be rewarded or punished for that nothing wrong with card.
.

Of course it's going to make the user happy to use an over powered ability to beat an opponent with RNG. I still don't see how that is good game design. Using RNG to win is basically just flipping a coin....Heads I win, Tails you win. Luck is certainly built into the game but you can have TOO much of it. There is a reason why playing war (That childs card game) is boring to an adult. Winning is entirely determined by the cards you get. Gwent should strive to have a balance between skill and luck. The devs said they wanted to focus on skill for a reason. Players did not like create cards because of their RNG. Gascon is such a blatantly badly designed card. Please try to imagine that every card in the game is like that. We just play cards and whoever gets the better point roll gets the win. Sounds fun right?

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I believe Ursurper is probably too strong. What he basically does is having self a deck without leader synergy and forcing the enemy to play without leader synergy too. And as all decks should rely on leader synergies, that means the opponents deck is significantly weakened. The fewer mulligans might even it out a bit, but I don't think that this is enough.

The only reason why Ursurper isn't a problem at the moment, is because NG bronze card set is pretty bad. The only real archetype that has bronze synergies is reveal and for that Morvan is a much better choice than Ursurper. Except reveal, NGs bronze include synergies with:

• tactics: 1
• artifacts: 1
• syping: 2
• enemy boosted units: 2
• lock: 2
• soldiers: 1
• messing with the enemies deck: 2
• messing with the enemies board: 3

Concerning gold cards:

• tactics: 2
• artifacts: 1
• spying: 2
• enemy boosted units: 2
• lock: 3
• soldiers: 3
• messing with the enemies deck: 11
• messing with the enemies board: 1

As can be seen NG archetypes are a pretty big mess, because all of them aren't that fleshed out yet and the biggest remaining one is best used with Emhyr because it relies on the Witchers.
If one the otherhand there was another fleshed out archetype with a bigger bronze pool, Ursurper might be a lot more viable and likely too strong.

 

[Bracala]

Of course it's going to make the user happy to use an over powered ability to beat an opponent with RNG. I still don't see how that is good game design. Using RNG to win is basically just flipping a coin....Heads I win, Tails you win. Luck is certainly built into the game but you can have TOO much of it. There is a reason why playing war (That childs card game) is boring to an adult. Winning is entirely determined by the cards you get. Gwent should strive to have a balance between skill and luck. The devs said they wanted to focus on skill for a reason. Players did not like create cards because of their RNG. Gascon is such a blatantly badly designed card. Please try to imagine that every card in the game is like that. We just play cards and whoever gets the better point roll gets the win. Sounds fun right?

I agree that Gwent should have balance between skill and luck and by luck I am not just refering to luck related on what cards you or your opponent got.There should be cards whose effect is related to luck and Viper witchers and Gascon are one of those cards. And there isn't many of those cards so I am not sure what is problem with them.

Also I like the idea that you are not completely in control over everything. You make great deck with great synergy but with viper witcher cards you are not completely in control because there is chance you won't be able to carry on with your strategy .

And when you think about it everything is about luck , Viper witcher can be counered by pure luck , if you draw main gold card you need viper witcher can't do you some serious harm.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I agree that Gwent should have balance between skill and luck and by luck I am not just refering to luck related on what cards you or your opponent got.There should be cards whose effect is related to luck and Viper witchers and Gascon are one of those cards. And there isn't many of those cards so I am not sure what is problem with them.

How is that balancing the game between skill and luck? We already have luck with card draw and mulligans. On top of that you think it's good to have cards with such wide variance in power determined by RNG? Where is the skill involved in that? These games don't need devs injecting more luck where luck is already prevalent. Flipping a coin to win is not fun or interesting.

There's more than enough of them for it to make a big difference in the game. NG is the biggest offender. Look at spotters for another card badly designed around RNG.

And when you think about it everything is about luck , Viper witcher can be counered by pure luck , if you draw main gold card you need viper witcher can't do you some serious harm.

Then there is still the variance in the other cards they could strip out of the deck. It's a bad mechanic without the RNG as the other player should not be able to go into your deck to steal your cards in the first place.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I have been vehemently opposing the idea of Usurper from open beta, but as I have said before, he is a leader Gwent doesn't deserve, but what Gwent needs.

Mind clarifying? If certain leaders are too powerful they need to be adjusted. Adding another leader to completely neutralize them is not a proper solution.

After facing back to back (now nearly killed Eithnè) artifact-epidemic-scorch-regis-shirru I played Usurper for some time. Just to piss off the possible Eithnè opponents.

People still play Eithne? Maybe they need to nerf it more .

 

[Pruny]

Usurper absolutelty counters filavandrel decks, abomination

 

[StrykerxS77x]

On the topic I can't really say that Usurper is a good idea. It just enhances the idea that this game is just a big match of rock paper scissors. If Usurper completely counters entire archetypes. I'm not on board with that.

If an archetype or deck is too strong then it should be balanced. We shouldn't need a leader to counter it.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

What about making Ursurper more about a tactical decision. He doesn't remove the leader ability, but if the enemy uses his leader, the Ursurper player gets a heavy advantage, so the enemy has to decide if he really wants to use his leader.

Ursurper, Order: Lock an enemy, sets its power to 1 and move all spying units from the enemy side to your own side. Charges: 0. Gain 1 charge, when the enemy leader ability is used for the first time during the round.

This way, the enemy player has to really consider, wether it is worth using his leader ability, or not.

 

[jgolden234]

Usurper absolutelty counters filavandrel decks, abomination

And arachas queen. She is super fun but I won't take her to ranked because of usurper.

 

[Archan6el]

Let's try this again.... I don't have any problem handling Usurper decks. The issue isn't about balance. It's about what is good game play and what is not. Bricking leaders is not, IMO. Removing mulligans is also not. Not that anyone runs that card. Milling someone after they passed and getting free CA out of it, or forcing their cards to banish, is also not good game play. Cards almost completely based on luck, like VW and Spotter, definitely are not. Even though they're both sub-par cards due to the variance, IMO.

All of above examples exist. Someone probably labelled them as "fun" mechanics. They're welcome to this opinion. I don't share it.

Fully agree with Restlessdingo32. The principle of any game is that you play; you think and perform all kinds of complex actions, which makes a game interesting. The core problem with Usurper and some of these cards is that they remove play from the game. Now, does that make the game better or worse? I already wrote in the thread about "Balancing Letho" (another one of these problem cards) an exaggeration to show that this type of leaders and cards are bad for the game: Usurper Ultra: Remove all abilities from cards in both decks and only play for strength points. Anybody interested?

 

[rrc]

Mind clarifying? If certain leaders are too powerful they need to be adjusted. Adding another leader to completely neutralize them is not a proper solution.



People still play Eithne? Maybe they need to nerf it more .

I am not saying Usurper is a very good leader. I still hate that concept. I gave the feedback multiple times (and I suggested that he gets 0 Mulligan charges and always goes first and has to destroy the TA to activate his ability. First part was done when game was released) I would rather face Big Monsters and lose than facing Usurper.

That said, people will play Usurper just to avoid broken leaders. If more people use Usurper, it just means a leader (or some leaders) need balancing.

All I said was, Usurper himself is not OP or very strong. He is just an annoying leader.

People still play Eithnè? All I am facing is Big Monsters 60% of the time, Adda/Foltest, Filandrevel.. (at Rank 13).

 

[Bracala]

How is that balancing the game between skill and luck? We already have luck with card draw and mulligans.

Every card game depends on luck and skill/ strategy in this case.

On top of that you think it's good to have cards with such wide variance in power determined by RNG?

I do .

as the other player should not be able to go into your deck to steal your cards in the first place.

It should and I am glad we can .Person can use this tactic to try and cripple opponent strategy. They said they want to make Gwent like real battlefield and they did it with those type of cards like Usurper, Letho,Viper witchers and others.

Real battles are won not just by strictly using your own strategy but also by countering opponents strategy.So Gwent should offer us those types of startegies to make it more versatile game.

 

[Archan6el]

Real battles are won not just by strictly using your own strategy but also by countering opponents strategy.So Gwent should offer us those types of startegies to make it more versatile game.

Lol, here we go again, typical Nilfgaard talk. Maybe think one step further? If we are to counter each other's strategy, what then is the counter for Usurper, Letho and VW? Exactly, there is none. That's why imo, they are game breaking in an unacceptable way.

 

[Bracala]

Lol, here we go again, typical Nilfgaard talk. Maybe think one step further? If we are to counter each other's strategy, what then is the counter for Usurper, Letho and VW? Exactly, there is none. That's why imo, they are game breaking in an unacceptable way.

Usurper counter is another Usurper.

Pitfall trap completely counters Letho and Viper witchers cards.