V is a gendered character

[isaktheviking]

...and when will we get a Male V.
Playing both a female voiced and male voiced character, it becomes clear that the player arc as written comes from a female perspective and framing. For a long while I wondered why male V was so unlikable, pathetic, and cringe in his approach to dialogue choices and quippyness, but it's all revealed by playing as female V. As a girl protagonist the quippyness, vulnerability, and relationship (and sexual tension) with silverhand all make perfect sense. V being a backburner character to Johnny and so malleable, while negative traits to male V making him unlikable, are par for course for female V. i don't dislike her on the female V play through, but it does drag down the game that they didn't rewrite male V to approach the linear sandbox objectives and relationships from a male perspective.

This is a problem many games face, where the writing and quest design favors one gender over the other where player gender is an afterthought tacked on long after the writing process. Sad to see CDPR fall into the same trap as a game like AC:Odyssey, where similarly Kassandra is unintentionally comedic by saying clearly male voice lines.

This causes some significant tonal whiplash because male-centric quest chains like Panam's are entirely different from the main progression of the game. There V in male gendered dialogue acts entirely differently than his interactions with other game characters and approach to dialogue throughout the other sequences.

Any one else notice this or find their male play through of the game lacking compared to the female play through from a story perspective?

 

[nadsh]

For a long while I wondered why male V was so unlikable, pathetic, and cringe in his approach to dialogue choices and quippyness, but it's all revealed by playing as female V. As a girl protagonist the quippyness, vulnerability, and relationship (and sexual tension) with silverhand all make perfect sense. V being a backburner character to Johnny and so malleable, while negative traits to male V making him unlikable, are par for course for female V. i don't dislike her on the female V play through, but it does drag down the game that they didn't rewrite male V to approach the linear sandbox objectives and relationships from a male perspective.

I think this boils down to your expectation of male characters being strong and in the spotlight, and female characters being weak and passive. The relationship between V and Johnny is exactly the same regardless of gender.

 

[isaktheviking]

I think this boils down to your expectation of male characters being strong and in the spotlight, and female characters being weak and passive.

And V being weak and passive as written is...

It's gendered and atonal for different character types. Story driven and very not RPG the game is, the dialogue does not account for male and female, let alone transhumanism inherent to the setting.

The relationship between V and Johnny is exactly the same regardless of gender.

Except it isn't. There is very different subtext for the same writing entirely wrapped around the characters gender or lack thereof throughout game play. The mod to fuck Johnny using scraps of scenes left in game is proof enough that there is female V- Johnny sexual tension in the writing. It comes through clear in a female playthrough while just making male V interacting with johnny seem... immasculine.

 

[Jack_point]

Nope it's defo a Female based story, watching some of the lets plays with male V and you can hear the tuber cringe as male V lol, pretty hilarious to watch. A lot of games lately are female centric is their design.

 

[Bartinga2077]

...and when will we get a Male V.
Playing both a female voiced and male voiced character, it becomes clear that the player arc as written comes from a female perspective and framing. For a long while I wondered why male V was so unlikable, pathetic, and cringe in his approach to dialogue choices and quippyness, but it's all revealed by playing as female V. As a girl protagonist the quippyness, vulnerability, and relationship (and sexual tension) with silverhand all make perfect sense. V being a backburner character to Johnny and so malleable, while negative traits to male V making him unlikable, are par for course for female V. i don't dislike her on the female V play through, but it does drag down the game that they didn't rewrite male V to approach the linear sandbox objectives and relationships from a male perspective.
View attachment 11162591
This is a problem many games face, where the writing and quest design favors one gender over the other where player gender is an afterthought tacked on long after the writing process. Sad to see CDPR fall into the same trap as a game like AC:Odyssey, where similarly Kassandra is unintentionally comedic by saying clearly male voice lines.

This causes some significant tonal whiplash because male-centric quest chains like Panam's are entirely different from the main progression of the game. There V in male gendered dialogue acts entirely differently than his interactions with other game characters and approach to dialogue throughout the other sequences.

Any one else notice this or find their male play through of the game lacking compared to the female play through from a story perspective?

Have not played with a male V, but playing with the TPP mod for a while now, I actually find that V is wholly male orientated by CDPR with the fullest intent throughout the entire game.

It starts with that sex magazine on the bed. To my accounts, V climbs stairs and ladders like a male, sits like a male and smokes like a male. The way she communicates with others, the tone, the speed, it's that of a male. And she is always the one that initiates conversations. Bout the only thing that could be female is her way of walking. Running, maybe, but definitely not her way of sprinting.

But still need to play with a male V to be sure. But yeah, to me, male V orientated.

 

[nadsh]

And V being weak and passive as written is...

It's gendered and atonal for different character types. Story driven and very not RPG the game is, the dialogue does not account for male and female, let alone transhumanism inherent to the setting.


Except it isn't. There is very different subtext for the same writing entirely wrapped around the characters gender or lack thereof throughout game play. The mod to fuck Johnny using scraps of scenes left in game is proof enough that there is female V- Johnny sexual tension in the writing. It comes through clear in a female playthrough while just making male V interacting with johnny seem... immasculine.

Right. Again, you have very strong assumptions about specific personality types being attached to one's gender. This is ridiculous.

The mod became popular because of the limited LI choices. River has a very small role in the game compared to Panam and Judy, and he's the only available choice for a straight female V.

 

[roelani]

This is entirely up to personal preference, but I HEAVILY prefer male V when it comes to performance, voice acting, line delivery and tone. You dislike the VA that's... too bad. But your conclusion is a little weird.

They wrote lines for both, they got two actors to play the character to reflect gender, but the character's STORY arc is the same regardless of which you pick at character creation. I'm not entirely sure what on earth you're even talking about. "approach sandbox from a male perspective"? What... does that even mean.

 

[Proto2149]

Alpha male drama, what would you expect?

 

[Jack_point]

This is entirely up to personal preference, but I HEAVILY prefer male V when it comes to performance, voice acting, line delivery and tone. You dislike the VA that's... too bad. But your conclusion is a little weird.

They wrote lines for both, they got two actors to play the character to reflect gender, but the character's STORY arc is the same regardless of which you pick at character creation. I'm not entirely sure what on earth you're even talking about. "approach sandbox from a male perspective"? What... does that even mean.

Point in question is the lines are a mirror image of both male and female V with very little if no difference. but it's player choice i know, and i far prefer the female story view.

Most hilarious moment was after act one and male v is talking to goro and victor, he just sounds like a child being sent to his room crying, but female V nails the scene.

 

[LordGavus]

I've played male and female V and i dont think the dialogue leans either way.
Though i will say i prefer female V voice acting.

 

[nadsh]

Point in question is the lines are a mirror image of both male and female V with very little if no difference. but it's player choice i know, and i far prefer the female story view.

Most hilarious moment was after act one and male v is talking to goro and victor, he just sounds like a child being sent to his room crying, but female V nails the scene.

That just sounds like a simple VA preference though, doesn't have anything to do with how the game handles males and females

 

[isaktheviking]

V climbs stairs and ladders like a male, sits like a male and smokes like a male. The way she communicates with others, the tone, the speed, it's that of a male. And she is always the one that initiates conversations. Bout the only thing that could be female is her way of walking. Running maybe, but definitely not her way of sprinting.

But still need to play with a male V to be sure. But yeah, to me, male V orientated.

Thats all rigging and animation, not dialogue focused. Of course in a singleplayer RPG the player must be proactive. The point is V, a clearly written quippy female stronk independent woman, handles herself like such regardless of gender. This also dovetails into lifepath, the nonsystem, where the ideal match for the games dialogue is female corpo V and the dialogue matches nothing else. Yes you "become" a streetkid, but the transformation only makes sense as a woman and as a corpo from the corpo intro into your main game.

You dislike the VA that's... too bad. But your conclusion is a little weird.

Entirely missing the point, I dislike the dialogue

They wrote lines for both

No/10
It's the same dialogue, written from a female framing, spoken by a male V. They could have approached a linear sandbox with gendered dialogue the same as they could have had more than one voice preset. As it sits you get to play as a white female V regardless of your characters race, gender, or lack thereof. Failure of game design and utilization of RPG mechanics. But hey, penis 2 amirite.

 

[roelani]

That just sounds like a simple VA preference though, doesn't have anything to do with how the game handles males and females

Yeah. I prefer the derpy, cocky asshole kinda vibe. Male V sounds like an immature little turd half the time, and I am here for that.

Post automatically merged: Jan 31, 2021

Thats all rigging and animation, not dialogue focused. Of course in a singleplayer RPG the player must be proactive. The point is V, a clearly written quippy female stronk independent woman, handles herself like such regardless of gender. This also dovetails into lifepath, the nonsystem, where the ideal match for the games dialogue is female corpo V and the dialogue matches nothing else. Yes you "become" a streetkid, but the transformation only makes sense as a woman and as a corpo from the corpo intro into your main game.


Entirely missing the point, I dislike the dialogue


No/10
It's the same dialogue, written from a female framing, spoken by a male V. They could have approached a linear sandbox with gendered dialogue the same as they could have had more than one voice preset. As it sits you get to play as a white female V regardless of your characters race, gender, or lack thereof. Failure of game design and utilization of RPG mechanics. But hey, penis 2 amirite.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but you ain't making much sense to me, so have a nice day complaining on the forums, friend. <3

 

[warner11]

Totally agree.

at first I couldn’t decide if it was just poor writing/poor voice acting with male V

but

the more I’ve played with a female V the more I agree with this point. I don’t think it’s a surprise that nearly all promo footage of the game utilised a female V.

regardless, the game does play better and the story feels like it makes more sense with a female V.

 

[EMT-Fields]

No I didn't notice this at all, and I mainly played as male V. The only difference I noticed between the 2, is Female V voice actor is more experienced than Male V and delivered her lines exceptionally better. Also I don't understand what you are referring to when you say Kassandra in Odyssey delivered "male voice lines" The only thing that was wrong with Kassandra in Odyssey is that the NPCs didn't treat her like they would a women in that era. That was the problem. Her having "male voice lines" doesn't make sense.

 

[lianjifei]

Only thing I can put into this topic is, male V and female V should have different move sets.
All the action in cut senses where you can see V in a mirror you can clearly tell they are the same with female V and that looks off for a edgy character V has been.

Other than that I would say they do need to give us option on V's personality.
It's not only male or female, is basically only 1 V even with different background and different choices we made in the storyline .

 

[Bartinga2077]

Thats all rigging and animation, not dialogue focused. Of course in a singleplayer RPG the player must be proactive. The point is V, a clearly written quippy female stronk independent woman, handles herself like such regardless of gender. This also dovetails into lifepath, the nonsystem, where the ideal match for the games dialogue is female corpo V and the dialogue matches nothing else. Yes you "become" a streetkid, but the transformation only makes sense as a woman and as a corpo from the corpo intro into your main game.

I didn't only spoke about rigging. I also mentioned V's way of communication. But you changed my post, meaning that you only seek confirmation for your own opinion, and are not so much interested in the opinion of others. I don't agree with you. I find V is fully male orientated. Let's leave it a that.

If you want a male V, would suggest you ask for one in the suggestions catalogue of the forum. Would raise your chances for it to be seen.

 

[isaktheviking]

Also I don't understand what you are referring to when you say Kassandra in Odyssey delivered "male voice lines" The only thing that was wrong with Kassandra in Odyssey is that the NPCs didn't treat her like they would a women in that era. That was the problem. Her having "male voice lines" doesn't make sense.

1. the scandal about Ubisoft and it's refusal/cludging of female led games and faux progressivism
2.The dialogue of Odyssey is 100% written for Alexios, not Kassandra. The symptom of this is noticing that no one comments on the warrior woman, but it goes much deeper.
Any time kassandra threatens someone it becomes inadvertently satirical because she's saying male voicelines. Now Alexious is straight out of deadly premonition, but it gets beyond stupid listening to such Jayden Smith lines in that game out of Kassandra's mouth.

Similar in reverse here. Cyberpunk2077 is a linear open world game written for a female main character with a white voice. Playing the game as such is pretty satisfying. Not perfect, but as good an experience as possible. Playing as anything else and the railroaded dialogue, choice decisions, and characterization makes V unlikable as there is fundamental discordance with Vs actions, player roleplay, and spoken dialogue. It wouldn't be bad if they sold it as a single player female led RPG, but they sold it as an immersive story driven RPG and people expect such. And that extends to things like the characterization in the writing.

Games can be written Agendered in dialogue framing, this one wasn't.

 

[hulkman2456]

Me, no. The dialog was written one way. They're not going to really do anything to favor one or the other. It will be neutral mostly. Mannerisms will feature male animations. Since again, not gonna spend the time to make female sitting animations and mannerisms. That all comes down to the actor. Female V is primarily a voice actor. That's why it feels better. Second, male V is putting on a accent. Making it harder for him to act. It comes down to how good an actor gets. That makes the lines better.

 

[Crusher93]

...and when will we get a Male V.
Playing both a female voiced and male voiced character, it becomes clear that the player arc as written comes from a female perspective and framing. For a long while I wondered why male V was so unlikable, pathetic, and cringe in his approach to dialogue choices and quippyness, but it's all revealed by playing as female V. As a girl protagonist the quippyness, vulnerability, and relationship (and sexual tension) with silverhand all make perfect sense. V being a backburner character to Johnny and so malleable, while negative traits to male V making him unlikable, are par for course for female V. i don't dislike her on the female V play through, but it does drag down the game that they didn't rewrite male V to approach the linear sandbox objectives and relationships from a male perspective.
View attachment 11162591
This is a problem many games face, where the writing and quest design favors one gender over the other where player gender is an afterthought tacked on long after the writing process. Sad to see CDPR fall into the same trap as a game like AC:Odyssey, where similarly Kassandra is unintentionally comedic by saying clearly male voice lines.

This causes some significant tonal whiplash because male-centric quest chains like Panam's are entirely different from the main progression of the game. There V in male gendered dialogue acts entirely differently than his interactions with other game characters and approach to dialogue throughout the other sequences.

Any one else notice this or find their male play through of the game lacking compared to the female play through from a story perspective?

That would explain why male V is acting so weird sometimes.