Vampire Bloodlines 2 Thread - All We Know So Far. Chat!

[Snowflakez]

Cyberpunk and the Bloodlines sequel are two vastly different games with vastly different budgets.

CD Projekt Red should be taking no notes from that particular book, as a fully voiced protagonist is far more immersive than one who is not. In a modern game it can be quite jarring when every character is voiced except the protagonist.

Cost is the primary reason why it sometimes is not done. While a silent protagonist is perhaps understandable when there are budget constraints, there is another price to pay - you sacrifice some of the immersiveness of the story you are trying to tell with your game.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

I find games without voiced protagonists infinitely more immersive. It's why I have thousands upon thousands of hours in the Elder Scrolls games, and about 60 in Fallout 4.

Now, if you just don't like silent protagonists, fair enough; taste is taste after all. But definitely not an objective "this is more immersive than this" type of thing, in my view.

I guarantee you cost wasn't the only consideration with the lack of a voiced protagonist in Bloodlines 2. Mitsoda explained his reasoning in the message you quoted, and cost isn't mentioned as the main factor. Obviously, it played some role, just as I'm sure going with FPP lowered costs for CP2077 for CDPR.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

It's kind of both. He mentions the cost, but more like a side result of the main problem - it's not possible to fit the voice for characters with wide customization, unless you spend tons and tons of money on many voice options, which is simply impractical. And even with that, someone won't like those options:

Protagonist is not voiced. I generally find that even with options to pick your voice, players never find a voice that fits the character they created. And yeah, it's a massive expense when the PC character has thousands of lines.

 

[lelxrv]

I have to agree that silent protagonist is mostly a choice due to budget/resource/development time constraints. I struggle to remember a game where it was a deliberate choice despite having resources. But I refuse to take a silent protagonist as a pure drawback or a compromise. It has it's positive sides, like aforementioned player agency. If a voice isn't decided for you, you fill the gap instinctively. It can help you personalize your experience.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I doubt Bethesda Elder Scrolls games had major constraints budget wise on voice acting. They have huge amount of it. But the protagonist isn't voiced, and it looks like a design decision.

 

[lelxrv]

I doubt Bethesda Elder Scrolls games had major constraints budget wise on voice acting. They have huge amount of it. But the protagonist isn't voiced, and it looks like a design decision.

They have to voice thousands of lines for every damn race and both genders. Preferably more than one voice, given than you can create variety of looks. I bet they considered it first and foremost. Resources, workhours. It's not the same as voicing Shepard in ME, for example.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

They have to voice thousands of lines for every damn race and both genders. Preferably more than one voice, given than you can create variety of looks. I bet they considered it first and foremost.

Point is, their budget is practically as big as it commonly gets for major gaming production. What else do you expect really, ten times that size? So much voiced customization is simply impractical.

 

[lelxrv]

Point is, their budget is practically as big as it commonly gets for major gaming production. What else do you expect really, then times that size?

In other words, money spent elsewhere? Means, budget and resources is the reason they didn't voice the protagonist?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

No, I mean someone like Bethesda could afford it, if they thought that was the proper design approach and not following it would turn players away. And they don't. Because it's the better design decision. Cost saving is a side benefit in this.

But sure, smaller production might not even worry about design merits, if money is a bigger constraint.

 

[Rawls]

Shupe no like silent protagonist. When Shupe speak, Shupe hear voice in head. Not choose what say and make non-Shupes understand with clairvoyance. Trollololo. Unintuitive choicy-designs remove Shupe from experience. Tastes like bad soup. Games better when Shupe hear Shupe talky talk. SHUUUUUUPE!

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

as a fully voiced protagonist is far more immersive than one who is not. In a modern game it can be quite jarring when every character is voiced except the protagonist.

Disagreed.

 

[Nyanko73]

Yea, i never understood this kind of hour equal dollar mentality. They're very different games. To make something like Bloodlines 1 (have you played it btw?) you have to keep things contained, even hub based. Small as a pudle, deep as an ocean type of approach to design, central to games that fit in some way shape or form to the immersive sim genre (Deus Ex HR/MD, Thief, Dishonored, Prey, even Bloodlines 1 which was more RPG than Im. Sims but borrowed heavily from them)

You might not understand but there is a reason why I used to never buy Tomb Raider games full price before they had decent time of play, because paying 60 bucks for a 12 hours game is a steal to me. Now that they are more like 45 hours, I am ready to give 60$. Anyone does what they want with their money mind you, but for me 30 hours of gameplay is not worth 60$, definitely not. Especially when you pay only 30$ for Divinity Original Sin 2 and it's 100+ hours of pure enjoyment.

 

[Sild]

You might not understand but there is a reason why I used to never buy Tomb Raider games full price before they had decent time of play, because paying 60 bucks for a 12 hours game is a steal to me. Now that they are more like 45 hours, I am ready to give 60$. Anyone does what they want with their money mind you, but for me 30 hours of gameplay is not worth 60$, definitely not. Especially when you pay only 30$ for Divinity Original Sin 2 and it's 100+ hours of pure enjoyment.

Ofc you're free to do whatever you want with your money.

But if everyone thought like that, we wouldn't have some of the most unique game experiences out there, including BL 2. Simplifying game price solely on length is not a good way to do it IMHO, since it encourages bad practices like artificial game time expansion just for marketing to brag "1000000h experience" mm hmm. Have fun with that. I'll probably get bored and just rush to the ending, if the game is good enough to keep me interested that long even.

 

[SigilFey]

Me like silent prota-gong-est best, but also like yappy prota-gan-it-ist. Nice to hear voice in head be like anything me want. But...also nice to hear voice sometime, too.

Game long or short is good. Actually...me like short game more than long. 30 hours good! Like to play whole story again again. Can get bored when game too long. Too much same. Too much repeat. Call of Dooty: Modest Warfern is one of Sig's favorite game. Can play whole game at once, like movie! Big funs!

 

[vyvexthorne]

You might not understand but there is a reason why I used to never buy Tomb Raider games full price before they had decent time of play, because paying 60 bucks for a 12 hours game is a steal to me. Now that they are more like 45 hours, I am ready to give 60$. Anyone does what they want with their money mind you, but for me 30 hours of gameplay is not worth 60$, definitely not. Especially when you pay only 30$ for Divinity Original Sin 2 and it's 100+ hours of pure enjoyment.

One thing to keep in mind is that each clan will hopefully play very differently from one another. In VTMB, Malkavian and Nosferatu were very different runs compared to the other clans.. if they expand on that and give all clans unique missions and interactions then you will be looking at multiple runs which could easily transform a 30 hour game into something much longer. That'll be something to keep an eye out as it gets closer to release. In all reality, the worst thing they could do is make every clan story the exact same so hopefully they realize that and are putting effort into something unique for each and every clan.

I personally enjoy 30 or less hour games..(like Bioshock).. because they are instantly replayable. You also don't get bogged down by a back catalog of games coming out while you try desperately to finish the 1000 hour game you are currently playing.

I do understand the money thing with incredibly short games (like Batman Arkham Asylum). I payed full price for that and was through it in about 12 hours.. Didn't help that it turned out to be a game I didn't really enjoy. Heaps of buyers remorse on that one. With any game you are wary of it's best to just keep an eye on it instead of diving in full price.. It's easy enough to hold off for a sale and buy it later.

 

[lelxrv]

Never regretted paying full price for a great 10-15 hour game. Uncharted series, Last of Us, Arkham series and the list goes on and on.

1 hour in one game isn't equal to 1 hour in another game. So counting hours or taxing based on that is misleading to say the least.

 

[RayBotty]

Not only can you turn into mist but as mist you can even enter the lungs of enemies to kill them.

 

[Sild]

Summary of the PC Gamer magazine article from another forum. Mostly stuff we already knew. Some new intersting bits like 13, 18 and others.

1. - Paradox already had plans to use Bloodlines in some form due to its value, but Hardsuit Labs worked on their own pitch for three months the moment Paradox acquired the IP
2. - Pitch presentation was so good Paradox immediately began talking pre-production
3. - First hub surrounds Pioneer Square
4. - Customise your appearance and background from the start
5. - Awaken on the floor of a courthouse, victim and witness to a mass embrace. Surrounded by members from different clans and factions you're to be trialed and almost executed, but a firebombing allows you to escape
6. - Start as a thin-blood due to them being at the center of political issue, and as a way to tutorialise your abilities and introduce you to the various clans and power structures, then joining a clan under unspecified circumstances later
7. - Five playable clans at launch, less than Bloodlines, but a focus on making every clan as distinct in play style as possible
8. - "If I'm someone who just likes to punch people in the face, we have a clan for you. If I'm someone that...in a normal roleplaying game, would play as a wizard or something, we also have a clan for that"
9. - Unique abilities and areas to explore depending on clan. Players who want to "see everything" will need to play as different clans
10. - Thin blood abilities include the ability to grow bat-like wings, transform into mist, and telekinesis
11. - End of tutorial has players choose one of these abilities, with its own sub-skills
12. - Levels design to be navigated in multiple ways, eg slip through a vent in mist form, use telekinesis to rip a fan out of the wall, fly over the gap, etc
13. - System Shock, Deus Ex, and Dishonored cited as primary inspiration for level design
14. - Gentrification and the divided between old and new a key narrative theme
15. - Mysterious woman contacts you via mobile phone, teaches you some of the tutorial stuff, like how to feed
16. - Feeding requires balancing draining the optimum amount of blood and not killing your target, else risk losing humanity
17. - Combat primarily in first person
18. - Able to equip two melee and two ranged weapons at any time
19. - At high levels can use devastating special moves, where the camera will zoom out to third person
20. - Meet another thin blood, who is killed by another vampire, then saying to you "You're not on my list"
21. - "Unsanctioned Seven" side quest has you hunting down the other thin bloods and learning about how vampiric life has impacted their mortal life
22. - First safehouse is an apartment sub-let by a reclusive vampire named Dale, who acts as a guide to the world
23. - Apartment safehouse belonged to the aforementioned murdered thinblood, pin board covered in notes and documents, the vamp trying to work out who caused the embrace
24. - Mitsoda wishes to retain the noir, black humor vibe of Bloodlines in characters and dialogue
25. - Game dialogue is fully voiced
26. - No quest markers on NPC heads, must be discovered by your own exploration and engagement
27. - Example of the above; a missing cat poster. Keep exploring Seattle to find greater density of missing cat posters, investigate the phenomenon, uncover the reason
28. - More broader choice than Bloodlines in choosing who you want to work for, different experience based on your faction alignment, can insult factions so badly they stop working with you
29. - Public displays of powers will violate the masquerade, as will feeding, etc
30. - Masquerade violations of violence will reduce civilian population at night as people are scared to go out, and heavier, frequent violations will see supernatural enforcers sent after you
31. - Can repair masquerade violations through specific tasks, like joining a clean-up crew to clear up masquerade violations from other vampires
32. - Clean-up crew run by a weird, desensitized guy named Bart, used an example of the black humor in the game. One clean-up crew mission has you clearing the mess left behind by a vampire + human romantic encounter; "if someone had exploded in a small hotel room, that's what that would look like. You're there to just pick up the pieces. Literally, pick up the pieces, and Bart just comments on whatever's there while eating his noodle soup"
33. - Background choices impact quest structure and options. Eg background of being a police officers, for a mission at the police station will allow you to walk straight in the door, but that comes with complications of its own as others recognize you
34. - Emotional resonance provides temporary buffs based on emotional state of victims fed upon. Eg, angry victims will provide a melee buff. Repeatedly feeding on angry people will provide a permanent passive bonus
35. - Built in Unreal Engine 4

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

See also this thread (actively updated): https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-we-know-so-far.1163043

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Most things copy from first VtmB and again melee in first person ffs.

 

[Sild]

I like first person (yes melee included). It's less cinematic than third person but I can live with that.

Maybe it's about time I resume my Dishonored 2 run.