Vanadain

[Elvenwyn]

Hi all! I'm Elvenwyn and have been playing Gwent since the closed beta.

I just wanted to give feedback on one of the new cards, Vanadain. I love playing Scoia'tael deadeyes. I thought Vanadain would be a good addition to deadeyes, but he seems to be a bit of an awkward card. The fact that he creates 2 waylays in hand means you need to have 2 cards to be replaced by waylays which results in bad draws and you not drawing the good stuff. He also gets taken out really easily. Only once was I able to get 8 deadeyes out of him. I feel he could be improved so he's less awkward to have in a deadeye deck.

Thanks.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Greetings, @Elvenwyn ! Nice to see another Scioa player. (I favour dwarves, personally.)

Post moved.

 

[John_Quichot]

I love me some Scioa too, but it think the new cards are really underwhelming if you compare them to the other factions. Also, Scioa received the fewest changes. Would really love to see some spicy changes. Since the nerf to Novigradian Justice and the absence of a good thin Scioa is in a difficult spot.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Scioa received the fewest changes.

Ay, that was a bit of a surprise. I'd have expected a bit more, too. However, perhaps changes may come in the next patch, when the second part of the expansion releases.

 

[Lokiat0r]

I love me some Scioa too, but it think the new cards are really underwhelming if you compare them to the other factions.

The Whisperers show some promise if you use Idarran and Teleportation to start generating an army of them. You can make an ST swarm deck that ISN'T treants or deadeyes now. It's fun, but so far my results haven't been overwhelmingly great outside of Dual Casting...

 

[Panos_Sigma]

ST main here too. Design-wise, I think Vanadain is the most awkward card of the expansion to use. I don't think he's suitable for a standard deadeyes elf swarm deck. He is 8p. Isengrim and Aelirenn are 8p too and are by far more reliable and valuable. So I can't see what you have to cut to fit him. Probably a better card.

He's maybe has a better use for a spell'tael or unitless deck, where you move to the bottom your 4p bronze trash units. But at the same time you also clog your deck with the same trash bronzes. Plus, when he's removed or locked you're propably stuck with two waylay cards which without a deathblow hit, are just 3pts specials. All in all, he's just a terrible card. Too much risk for an okayish reward (just like the new Francesca).

On a side note, I've noticed that for some reason Scoia gets the most mediocre or trash cards for every expansion. It has the worst defender, echo card, evolving card, location card, bronze witchers and so on... The only reason is not the worst faction by far, is because of NR.

 

[ya1]

Possible Vanadain rework:

Provisions: 10-12
Deploy ability changed to Zeal. Order. 2 Charges.

 

[EduFerraz]

Possible Vanadain rework:

Provisions: 10-12
Deploy ability changed to Zeal. Order. 2 Charges.

I have another idea.

Provision 10

Deploy - create and use a waylay
order - create and use a waylay
after 2 turns, spawn a deadeye

 

[Lokiat0r]

In general, I like the idea of a Deadeye spawning card, but Waylay is such a horrible trigger that it's not worthwhile... The only time you'd see any value is if you're facing another deck that spawns lots of tokens. 3 power bronze targets for Waylay have been power-crept out of the game and you will rarely see any played.

My suggestion:

6 power, 8 provisions
Counter 3.
When counter reaches 0 spawn an Elven Deadeye on this row and reset the Counter.
Decrease the Counter by 1 at the end of each turn and each time you play an elf.

EDIT - Further thoughts: Change Waylay to 3 damage, spawn a Deadeye, spawn a second Deadeye on killing blow. I think I'd take the chance and play a few of those... 5 provisions for 6 (conditionally 9) points on a bronze card doesn't seem out of line with the power-creep we've seen recently.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

From my perspective all the epics except pride of the Sea were kind of disappointing but Vanadain is definitely the most frustrating and in its current state due to its deploy almost unplayable.

The whole idea of the current approach is the following:
- Use an all in Waylay strategy in round 1 (at best two waylays in hand, two from Vanadain, 1 from scenario). Then you hope that your Vanadain survives and that you have enough damage giver to get the most of your Vanadain, And in the end you finish round 1 with Vernossiel (and maybe have some other cards benefitting from the elf tag). However the strategy can be easily interrupted. Simply block him, destroy him and so on and you will have a more or less useless hand. But this is in line with the Price of Power idea of having strong strategies which can be very strong but can also brick. Here it will most often brick.
- When you have him in round 3 you probably have all your saved gold cards which you do not want to replace by Waylay

In order to make this card playable I would suggest the following changes:
- Replace his deploy by Order: Move 1 card from your hand to the bottom of your deck. Add Waylay to your hand for each card moved that way. Charges (2)
- Reduce his body and give him immunity

 

[rrc]

I can't get over the fact that someone proposed this design and the whole design team brainstormed and accepted this card and printed it in the final patch. Easily one of the worst ever designed card in the game. Why would you play two Waylay which can (and at least 90% of the time will) play for 3 points with a promise of getting +3 points? Of course this can change if Waylay gets reworked or buffed. But without that, this is THE worst card in the expansion. The only possible reasonable explanation is, whoever proposed this card first, proposed along with the Waylay changes and Waylay change was dropped in the last minute.

Last two patches, if you see, even when devs discuss about ST, they are not even committal.. just quickly wants to pass on. ST keeps getting fewer and fewer changes, get more and more dead cards. Vanadain is the cherry on top of how commital the dev team is about ST and number-of-dead-card-in-a-faction.

 

[EduFerraz]

I can't get over the fact that someone proposed this design and the whole design team brainstormed and accepted this card and printed it in the final patch. Easily one of the worst ever designed card in the game. Why would you play two Waylay which can (and at least 90% of the time will) play for 3 points with a promise of getting +3 points? Of course this can change if Waylay gets reworked or buffed. But without that, this is THE worst card in the expansion. The only possible reasonable explanation is, whoever proposed this card first, proposed along with the Waylay changes and Waylay change was dropped in the last minute.

Last two patches, if you see, even when devs discuss about ST, they are not even committal.. just quickly wants to pass on. ST keeps getting fewer and fewer changes, get more and more dead cards. Vanadain is the cherry on top of how commital the dev team is about ST and number-of-dead-card-in-a-faction.

Or maybe he can get huge value with next cards coming in the others part of the expansion.

But, if thats it, devs should show vendavain only in the last part of the expansion

 

[rrc]

Or maybe he can get huge value with next cards coming in the others part of the expansion.

But, if thats it, devs should show vendavain only in the last part of the expansion

He can never get any huge value unless Waylay is changed or buffed. Waylay is a junk pathetic card which most of the time plays for 3 point damage. Any new set of cards can't change the fact that Vandain can play for 6+3+3 in three turns unless either he is buffed significantly (like 8 for 8P with Veil or immunity) or Waylay is changed/buffed.

The effort to make him playable should be on him and Waylay.

 

[DRK3]

Vanadain was a huge mistake.
Its design has potential, but being shackled to waylay is a death sentence while waylay remains unchanged.
Why? Waylay is pretty bad, even 4p elves are often better than it, so its nots like you're getting a significant upgrade with vanadain's deploy ability.

The devs should have looked at waylay's playrate, im sure its one of the least played ST cards - for a reason - and realized designing this card wont make waylay popular, it will make the new card unpopular.

 

[jmoyano92]

Vanadain really needs something like "Zeal. Order. Charges: 2 plus his current ability". This way you can use him or not on deploy. Sometimes your hand will be full of golds in third round so you don't want to get rid of any card. Also in this way if he survives and don't get lock you can use his charges on next turns and play Waylay for full value. He's useless in his current state. Not worth it. He needs exact the same treatment as Munro Bruys.
Something like this:

Vanadáin
Elf

Zeal.
Order: Move 2 cards from your hand to the bottom of your deck. Add Waylay to your hand for each card moved that way.
Whenever you play Waylay, Spawn an Elven Deadeye on this row.
Charges: 2.

Also please CDPR buff useless bronzes/golds cards that never see play. There a lot of cards that are unplayable and not worth it. Examples:

-Tuirseach Axeman (rework)
-Disgraced Brawler (Reduce Bloodthirst by 1)
-Aguara: True form (too expensive for a meme rng card)
-Sihil (buff or lower provisions)
-Dandelion: Vainglory (rework)
-Gregoire de Gorgon (too expensive, one less provision)
-Chironex & Unicorn (reduce 1 provision)
-Gascon (rework or lower provision, he's completely useless and expensive)
-Mandrake (reduce 1 provision)
-Saer Qu'an (too expensive to be always removed, reduce 1 provision)
-The last wish (reduce 1 provision, it can ruin your best golds)
-Wolfsbane (reduce 1 provision)
-Gimpy Gerwin (reduce 1 provision)
-Skellige Storm (reduce 1 provision)
-Tesham Mutna Sword (5pts removal for 7 provisions that fills 1 row space? too expensive, reduce by 1 its provisions)
-Yoana (useless card with cool ability, she needs a buff. Add 2 armor, Veil or reduce by 1 her provision cost. Buff her with one or two of those options)
-Elf and Onion soup (reduce 1 provision)
-Johnny & Sara (buff a bit, they are always removed, maybe add Veil idk)
-Summoning Circle (rework or reduce 1 provision)
-Tempest (rework or buff)
-Thunderbolt (too expensive for 6 points, reduce 1 or 2 provisions)
-Arachas Venom (conditional, reduce 1 provision)
-Mastercrafted Spear (reduce 1 or 2 provisions)
-Wyvern Scale Shield (reduce 1 or 2 provisions)
-Elder Bear (reduce 1 or 2 provisions)
-Offering (conditional, can brick easily except for NG & NR, reduce 1 provision maybe? I'm not sure about this one)
-Armorer's Workshop (reduce 1 provision)
-Brokvar Archer (Buff, I like his ability and range limit but he needs a buff. Reduce his provision cost by 1. He's bad and conditional for 5 provisions)
-Caravan Guard (rework or buff, conditional)
-Drummond Warmonger (reduce Bloodthirst condition by 1 or 2)
-Epidemic (buff, reduce 1 provision cost or rework)
-Sandstorm (useful only against Endrega Larvas before their buff-nerf, completely useless now so what about a rework into another weather effect? Maybe Sandstorm with an Ofiri-Zerrikanian expansion and new faction for the future? bad and expensive conditional ability in its current form. You can reduce by 1 its provision cost as well)
-Sapper (useful only against Yghern-Dracoturtle-Big Brothers, useless in every other scenario. Rework)
-Scout (useless card, reduce by 1 his provision cost or rework)
-Svalblod Cultist (since Svalblod Priest is a better card reduce her provision cost by 1)
-Swallow (rework or buff, we have already Pact for the same purpose with 1 provision less, so this card is useless an expensive)
-Traveling Merchant (reduce 1 provision cost, useless card for 5 provisions)
-Tuirseach Veteran (since Bear Witcher is a better version of this one, reduce Tuirseach Veteran's provision cost by 1 into 4)
-Will o' the wisp (rework or reduce 1 provision cost, useless and conditional for 5 provisions)
-An Craite Warcrier (Buff, add 1 armor)
-Cutthroat (Buff, useless card even for Vampire decks)
-Dimun Pirate Captain (Buff. Increase value by 1 on Deploy and Bloodthirt abilities)
-Dimun Pirate (can brick and cost you a gold. Reduce provision cost by 1. Main reason is because Bear Witcher is a better and solid card for the same provisions. It's also a buff to pirate archetype, which is not that great honestly)
-Highwaymen (conditional and useless, buff a lot or rework)
-Inspirational Ballad (useless card even for a Tridam Infantry, rework)
-Iron Falcon Knife Juggler (Buff)
-Ofiri Merchant (useless card even against NG Viper Witcher Alchemist, -I already tested-, If they want your card they will play Cantarella so is 100% useless against NG. Rework, Buff or even better add more neutral synergies for this card in order to work and being able to manipulate your deck and give useless cards like Spring Equinox to Mr. opponent)
-Undying Thirst (please rework, useless even for Vampire decks)
-Wolf Pack (Buff or even better, rework)
-Peasant Militia (Buff or rework but do something about this one)
-Oxenfurt Scholar (just give the card to NR faction and buff or rework this poor guy. useless card)
-Mourntart (buff this archetype, It's useless and risky, not enough points to win)
-Toad Prince (reduce 1 or 2 provisions, Adda is cheaper and better removal with easier condition, and she's not great either, just okey or decent, so yeah buff the Toad a bit)
-Idr (buff him in order to buff Mourntart archetype, this guy is always locked, maybe addind Zeal with a condition idk)
-Tatterwing (reduce 1 provision cost or increase its base power by 1 idk)
-Maerolorn (reduce 1 provision cost)
-Hideous Feast (reduce 1 provision cost, because it needs 2 units on board to be viable)
-Naglfar's Crew (Buff his base power a bit or reduce by 1 his provision cost)
-Vran Warrior (Buff or reduce by 1 its provision cost)
-Cockatrice (Rework or Buff),
-Hybrid (Buff or Rework)
-Ice Troll (Buff a bit)
-Siren (Rework)
-Werewolf (Buff or Rework, useless since Woodland Spirit Leader change)
-Nekker (Buff a bit, add 1 armor maybe, they are so bad. Do the same with Nekker Warrior)
-Wild Hunt Warrior & Wild Hunt Navigator (Buff them by 1 point more, maybe 1 more base power idk)
-Vattier de Rideaux (buff him a bit, he's cool and trash at the same time imo. I like the row restriction and his 3 base power though so idk... and his 11 provisions are fair I guess, but he is not that good, especially when you're running out of locks. His archetype needs some buffs. Most of the time there are not enough points in order to win)
-Shilard Fitz-Oesterlen (Not sure about this one. He's awesome against Monsters... against other factions... not so much. Maybe reduce his provision cost by 1? He's not that great in round 1 either cuz they can mulligan later on the affected unit... unless it is their win condition or an important card)
-Doadrick Leumaerts (reduce by 1 his provision cost, same as Istredd)
-Mangonel (conditional and useless as removal because opponent can play around it, so reduce by 1 its provision cost)
-Menagerie Keeper (reduce by 1 her provision cost)
-Rot Tosser (reduce by 1 its provision cost, main reason is because Blightmaker is way better and flexible than this card with the same ability, besides NG soldiers are not that good and opponent can play around putrid cow)
-Spotter (reduce his provision cost for obvious reasons. Useless at 5 provisions, bring back Reveal NG with some improvements/changes or rework this card)
-Ard Feainn Light Cavalry (Rework or Buff a lot, useless card)
-Combat Engineer (Rework)
-Deithwen Arbalest (Rework or Buff a lot, bad card)
-Nauzicaa Brigade (Buff or Rework)
-Ointment (Buff or Rework, useless card)
-Van Moorlehem Servant (Rework)
-Sirssa (reduce by 1 her provision cost)
-Milva (Reduce by 1 her provision cost)
-Cat Witcher Mentor (Not great ability except when you use him along with Gaetan, reduce his provision cost from 5 to 4)
Cat Witcher Mentor (This card is awful and completely useless. Rework)
-Panther (Reduce its provision cost by 1)
-Waylay (Reduce its provision cost by 1)
-Blue Mountain Elite (Rework. Useless and conditional)
-Cat Witcher Adept (Rework)
-Dol Blathanna Bomber (Buff a bit)
-Dryad Enchantress (Useless card. Remove her deploy ability and change it to Order. Much better and useful this way)
-Dryad Grovekeeper (Buff or Rework)
-Dwarven Skirmisher (Buff his base power I guess)
-Elven Scribe (Rework)
-Elven Wardancer (Buff a bit, she's bad an has conditional ability)
-Hawker Healer (Buff, maybe increase her boost ability by 3 and heal by 5 idk)
-Hawker Support (Buff increasing 1 value point)
-Vernon Roche Spy (Reduce by 1 his provision cost, same as Joaquim)
-Mad Kiyan (Rework, bad card)
-Prince Stennis (reduce by 1 his provision cost)
-Sabrina's Inferno (Buff this meme archetype or reduce by 1 its provision cost idk)
-Vissegerd (Give him 1 armor)
-Bloody Fail (Rework)
-Lyrian Landsknecht (Increase by 1 point both Order and Inspired abilities)
-Redanian Elite (Rework)
-Rivian Pikeman (Buff)
-Siege Master (Rework)
-Temerian Infantry (Buff, Rework or Reduce by 1 his provision cost)
-Field Medic (Buff a bit)
-Redanian Knight (Buff a bit)
-Temple Guard (Rework or Buff)
-Eternal Fire Inquisitor (Reduce by 1 his provision cost)

 

[harry078x]

I've tried to make him work but I agree it's very difficult to get the most out of him. Maybe twice did I get full potential out of him 6+9+9 but most often I find good use for him when hand buffing Aelirenn and then getting her out of my hand

 

[Celadyl]

I can't get over the fact that someone proposed this design and the whole design team brainstormed and accepted this card and printed it in the final patch. Easily one of the worst ever designed card in the game. Why would you play two Waylay which can (and at least 90% of the time will) play for 3 points with a promise of getting +3 points? Of course this can change if Waylay gets reworked or buffed. But without that, this is THE worst card in the expansion. The only possible reasonable explanation is, whoever proposed this card first, proposed along with the Waylay changes and Waylay change was dropped in the last minute.

Last two patches, if you see, even when devs discuss about ST, they are not even committal.. just quickly wants to pass on. ST keeps getting fewer and fewer changes, get more and more dead cards. Vanadain is the cherry on top of how commital the dev team is about ST and number-of-dead-card-in-a-faction.

totally agree, I was reaally scratching my head when I saw that waylay actually wasnt changed at all after this card has been announced. when you play vanadain and 2 waylays without being able to get deathblows (and without vanadain being locked or killed) you're playing 18 points for 18 provision in 3 turns and you actually need to keep 2 bad cards in your hand to shuffle them back lol.

 

[Anaeto]

I personally would like sociatel devotion tall punish cards for elves and gift and thinning packages. Vanadain can be reworked to play waylay from deck if waylay gets buffed to 4p cos im not jamming two waylays at 5p in my deck. He can keep his engine value. I like it. This way vandain thins your deck and gives more reason to play waylay. I also would like a leader buff for guerilla tactics to boost and dmg by 3 per charge not 2. The movement ability is very niche and results in a 6point leader too often and some times even less if the target has armor.
Also would like the invigorate leader to have 3 charges 3 boosts per charge and 17 provisions

 

[Breli]

A bit off-topic but: I would like to see a general re-work of ST.

NR was reworked twice since homecoming now. NG and Monsters also got a significant overhaul IIRC. Skellige/Syndicate never needed one so that doesn't count.

Specifically I'd like to see some cross-subfaction synergy that allows to mix and match a bit rather than going all-in elves or dwarves. Harmony used to do that maybe even too successfully since it essentially allowed playing a "best of" ST. Natures Gift also allows that which is why it seems to be a preferred leader ability right now. I proposed a "Fighter" Tag similar to Soldiers/Warriors some time ago to create cross-sub-faction synergies/abilities. And yes, I know, it doesn't really fit the lore but I don't care.

As for Vanadain: Well, lets hope there is something coming in the next two card drops. Otherwise this design is really mysterious ...

Edit: And please please come up with something else than "lets spawn some more tokens" ...

BR

Breli

 

[Jollyrogerxberg]

Since the topic is still up, my two cents.

first on the offtopic: ye a rework is about time. Symbiosis and the cats gave some live but still waiting on the rework of all the sleepy bronce. btw SK had its rework despite beeing a well working faction. not a full overhaul like NR (2nd) and NG but the beastmaster and the archer, GS and the boats/pirates got some real changes throughout the times. the only scoia "rework" was making handbuff bad by nerfing poor sheldon.

VANADAIN: oh boy!
when I saw this card i immidietly noticed 1 way how this could be good (and a thousand ways to fail).
Time to shine: Walk with me on this path of imagination...
Imagine playing an elf/trap deck and really mean it. We have gambit in the deck. Our hand is a bit too full of traps that we don't want to play R1 and we are on blue coin.
fringe scenario: Jam feign death, activate gem. Complete scenario with Vanadain and send two traps of choise to the buttom to asure Gambit value.
BAAM! Vanadain value on the spot and the handfix.

Now back to reallity: Imagine not drawing this highend combo R1, tutor it?
Drawing Vanadain R3 and all gold hand, Trade Golds for Waylay? Noway! so Vanadain is our last say? bad

Spelldeck to push gord? i think i just rather play more tempering
full elf? cutting a save value card like aelirenn or toruviel? No!

It seems like defs tricked themselfs. Seeing the playrate of waylay, thinking this card is liked by players, but its only spawned by scenario.

Let's hope they catch up with this with the coming parts. Either a change of waylay or some crazy weird super strange disguised support.