Venendal Elite Completely Ruining Ranked Play

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

Venendal Elite Completely Ruining Ranked Play

The entire reveal strategy has gone way too far, completely unbalanced overpowered cards like the Venadel are obsurd to include in the game, the whole reveal thing makes it feels like your opponent is legally cheating.

But this card in particular is a ridiculous. A Bronze that can set any of your golds to 1!!!! That's unfair enough but what if you running high level golds?

Oh yeah plus it copies the power of the stolen unit.

:hmm:

It's a Bronze you can have three copies of BTW.



I'm not one to complain much but this really is a completely unbalanced op card, the other cards that reveal and steal are bad enough but this bronze hurts really bad, so bad I have to give up ranked till it's fixed.

I mean at least target 10 power max or only other bronzes for gods sake.

:troll:

I was on a streak this completely ruined my momentum, there's just no counter for it, please fix.

 

[Philologus]

It does seem unbalanced, doesn't it? The NG reveal archetype is powerful because there is no way to affect your opponent's hand, or to conceal cards (at least for the other factions). NG can manipulate cards in your hand, and there's nothing to be done for it.

You seem outraged because it can hit gold cards, but I think the reveal archetype that involves Spotters is OP. Unless you can stop the strengthened Manticore or NG Knight from going back into the opponent's hand, you have to hope for a Scorch and/or Gigni in R2 and R3. Even then, you are not likely to hit every target because your opponent will alter the strength of said spotters with other boosts.

 

[ZenaRose]

Yeah you are right, but bronze witcher 5 body plus 11 damage is even more unbalanced than Venedal :/ Rip gwent

 

[Philologus]

Yeah you are right, but bronze witcher 5 body plus 11 damage is even more unbalanced than Venedal :/ Rip gwent

THAT is absurd too, especially given that NG runs the Ointment card.

 

[dragoonzen]

Venadel elite is amazing when you have one and there is no reveal cards in your opponents hand to swap power. Especially in the third round..

 

[DRK3]

I agree, Venendal Elite is getting close to being my most hated card, the Nekker, its ridiculous, and its not because there are other OP bronzes in NG that stops this one from being OP too.

When im facing reveal, at initial mulligan i already mulligan my high pt cards and valuable cards (poor Olaf never stays) so as venendal elite cant hit them.

 

[Esmer]

I agree. The card should not be able to target golds (like spotters can't).

Even when it targets bronzes it's around 20 points swing (-10 for you and +10 for the opponent).

Reveal archetype has some completely overpowered cards, but all of those are combo-oriented. So it's very frustrating to play against reveal when it works, but it's also frustrating to play as reveal when you can't get your combo pieces.

 

[KasumiGoto]

It shouldn't affect golds. The fact that it can totally negate Olaf AND steal his strength is ridiculous.

 

[Sheva007]

If venadel elite doestn affect gold cards, its going to be a dead card.

By the random nature of the reveal mechanic, you dont know what are you going to reveal from the enemy hand.

so lets say, you play Voorhis, and you reveal 2 footsoldiers from your hand and 2 cards from the enemy hand, being a gold card and a spell. Thats it, your venadel elites in your hand are dead cards.

so the best way to balance the card is to change it from swappin power to "reduces the strenght of a targeted revealed card by 5 (never less than 1) and venadel elite is strenghtened by that amount"

allowing it to still target golds.

 

[ZenaRose]

When Venedal hits its own Cantarella its 23 point bronze, so your argument is invalid

 

[Philologus]

When Venedal hits its own Cantarella its 23 point bronze, so your argument is invalid

And this is the way i see it used most often.

Venedal Elite is even better than Dudu in one respect: it affects a (revealed) card in-hand, and thus there's no way to defend against it.

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

Now reveal, one of the weakest archetypes is OP too? Reveal is a strong round 1 deck and that's it. Game over. Keeping up with their tempo isn't hard, what with the powercreep and all. Even if you don't win round 1 you can bleed them, leaving them with nothing for the other 2 rounds.

 

[Sheva007]

Now reveal, one of the weakest archetypes is OP too? Reveal is a strong round 1 deck and that's it. Game over. Keeping up with their tempo isn't hard, what with the powercreep and all. Even if you don't win round 1 you can bleed them, leaving them with nothing for the other 2 rounds.

Not only that, its very funny to play reveal and the revealed cards in your opponents hand being a Hattori, a Barclay, and a Iortveth Meditator, making your venadel elites completely useless.

"But it hit my Olaf!!!one!one!!eleven!!! Please nerf!!twelve!"

Sigh. The problem with the community is that people is not really interested in balance, but rather in destroying the cards that counter your deck.

 

[iamthedave]

Not only that, its very funny to play reveal and the revealed cards in your opponents hand being a Hattori, a Barclay, and a Iortveth Meditator, making your venadel elites completely useless.

"But it hit my Olaf!!!one!one!!eleven!!! Please nerf!!twelve!"

Sigh. The problem with the community is that people is not really interested in balance, but rather in destroying the cards that counter your deck.

100% this. I was on the other end doing this to a reveal player. I don't think they were happy when they found out the highest power in my hand was 5.

Venendral Elite isn't even what buffed reveal, it's just a handy tool. The real buffs seem to be Mangonel damaging on play, and Henry allowing you to reload scorpions (as well as scorps doing a bit more damage).

If you are up against reveal you have to accept one of two things: either you must play your power cards earlier than you'd like, or you have to make sure they aren't in your opening hand.

And you should probably expect to lose round 1, too. Round 2 onwards is tough for them. I don't see a problem with reveal as an archetype currently. It's strong without being overpowering, and plenty of decks can beat it easily. Just killing its mangonels turn 1 really messes up it's strongest play (round 1 mangonel into voorhis and golems)

 

[Esmer]

If venadel elite doestn affect gold cards, its going to be a dead card.

No, it's not: there's Venandel + Cantarella combo, plus even when used on a 5 str bronze, Venandel provides 9 str swing.

Moreover, there's little RNG in reveal. In almost every game against reveal they knew my whole hand. Only Morvran + Cahir reveal 8 cards.

Here's the thing: reveal was always strong, but inconsistent and didn't have strong finishers. The midwinter update added consistency in a form of Vrigheff (plays a machine from your deck). Plus there's Nilfgaardian gate to play Vrigheff. Then there's Henry van Attre who acts partly as a finisher, partly as a tempo.

Basically, the power of reveal is evident by the fact that none of the current reveal decks plays Cynthia: a very strong card that alone provides 15+ str and reveals the best target for Venandel (unless she hits a spy, of course).

As for the finishers reveal was lacking, they now use Nova, Yennefer: Enchantres into scorch, and even good old Villie, because it's pretty much impossible to get CA against reveal's crazy tempo, so they have the last play in turn 3.

 

[Esmer]

And you should probably expect to lose round 1, too. Round 2 onwards is tough for them. I don't see a problem with reveal as an archetype currently. It's strong without being overpowering, and plenty of decks can beat it easily. Just killing its mangonels turn 1 really messes up it's strongest play (round 1 mangonel into voorhis and golems)

Yes, reveal is partly strong because everyone plays tempo to counter dwarves. Historically in Gwent control beats engines, engines beat tempo and tempo beats control. But in case of NG reveal they are a mix of tempo, engines (Mangonels), and control (Bonhart, Scorpions, Mangones, Scorch, GIgni). That is why the deck seems so strong when it works.

Anyway, the topic is not about reveal (I think it's finally in a right place), but about the fact that Venandel can target golds, while Spotters can't.

 

[W12]

Reveal is in a "sweet spot" now. Not weak, nor owerpowered. You can easy tech against it, play around.

 

[Sheva007]

No, it's not: there's Venandel + Cantarella combo, plus even when used on a 5 str bronze, Venandel provides 9 str swing.

Venandel + Cantarella is strong, yes, i´m not denying it, but the moment you nerf venandels to not affecting Gold cards, noone is going to play venandel, and no, noone is going to play venandels excusively for playing it in combo with Cantarella. As for the second part of your quote, its just laughable, since a 9 str bronze card nowadays is pure shit.

Right now its a high risk/high reward card. When it works, it works wonders, when it doesnt work, when you draw a venandel elite in R3 with no revealed cards, its an autoloose, or when you dont have high strenght revealed cards in your opponents hand, it varies from a subpar card to a complete disaster.

Some people compare it with Spotters, which is not really a valid comparison, Spotter is way more reliable, since you could reveal 1 card in your hand, whichever you wanted, usually it was a vanilla Geralt, and buff all the spotters with it. But you just had to reveal 1 hand from your card, with no RNG involved, since you knew which card you were revealing. With Venandels, however, you depend enterily on having Cantarella and whatever card you choose to reveal from your opponents hand. If you cant see the difference between the 2 cards and keep comparing them... well, i dont know what to tell you.

You want to change it so its not so devastating when it works? Ok, i get it, i dont like bronze to be so potentially powerful either, implement the change i suggested, give VE the same treatment Bekkers Twisted Mirror received. Put a maximum of strenght swap.

Venendal Elite - 2 strenght

Reduces the strenght of the targeted revealed card by a maximum of 5, the Venendal Elite boosts itself for the same amount.


And then you have a more reliable card for reveal players, that doesnt kill the card, and doesnt hit like a truck in the best case scenario. That would be a reasonable change.

But no, to all of you saying "it shouldnt affect gold" what you are looking for is to destroy a card you dont like to play against, lie to yourselves if you like guys but you are not lying anyone else.

Is that simple.

 

[KasumiGoto]

Reveal isn't even weak right now. I play against NG (not only reveal) waaaayyy more often than dwarves.

 

[Khreygond]

Basically, the power of reveal is evident by the fact that none of the current reveal decks plays Cynthia: a very strong card that alone provides 15+ str and reveals the best target for Venandel (unless she hits a spy, of course).

I use it. It all depends on what you are going for. I also use Shilard for example which is amazing.

Granted Reveal netdecks use Yennefer: Enchantress and Villen and usually forego Cynthia but these also use Drought which really has not much of a place in a reveal deck.

In short, no, reveal is just where it needs to be. An alright Tier 2 deck that offers a lot of consistency and can have a lot of tempo with some control and engines like pointed out in another post. It is frustrating to go against sure but if you need some advice, then make them use their strong plays (mangonel + Voorhis) on R1 and accept the fact that unless you put A LOT of effort, you are probably going to lose that round, saving your cards for later

There is another issue with the combo you are describing (that is Venendal on Cantarella). It defines when to play Cantarella. No matter what, you need to play the Venendal first, and that may prove CRUCIAL, as the longer the round goes the fewer your options and the more you might need a specific card. I have foregone the Venendals completely as they don't often provide enough points if you use them on anything but the spy and using them on Cantarella often hurts you more than you might expect. For example you might have played the leader and not have any other revealers in your hand and then Cantarella draws you a Daerlan soldier and a Fire Scorpion. This happens a lot if you try to use Venendals on Cantarella or wait for the Venendal on her.