Venendal Elite Completely Ruining Ranked Play

[DRK3]

For people complaining that Venendal can be a dead card if obtained on R3 or when you dont have valuable revealed targets - so what? there are many other bronzes who work like that, its called 'risk and reward' ex. reaver scouts, they easily bring another one of your units, but if those units were killed, he's a dead card, you have to consider that risk.

And maybe you havent noticed, but revealing your opponent's entire hand had become really easy, to the point sometimes you had more reveal options but only your own hand as target - so what did CDPR did? Created this new 'conceal' mechanic so you can never 'reveal too much' as you can keep revealing those fire scorpions to hit again, etc.

Sure, there are decks that are pretty resistant to Venendal, and one of those decks might be the most popular atm, but does that make the card "balanced" when its still OP against most other decks?

 

[x1Cygnus]

Reveal is probably the only deck type that I really dislike; the games are almost card for card replication by different players and when my hand is entirely revealed by near end long R1/mid R2, if they think they're going to lose, they often just quit and move on to someone else... so I've gotten kinda adept at pulling rabbits out of hats against reveal decks in R3.

Secondly, being able to do damage with cards that are still in their hands and not on the board is just wrong: reveal fire scorpion / damage / conceal fire scorpion with Henry VA who damages your units if they so choose or boost their own - and he's not even a gold card!! / reveal fire scorpion again / damage / play fire scorpion out onto board and do even more damage. When you're playing ST and/or some NR variants, this decimates your deck to almost nothing as most cards are 6 or 7 power or lower.

Reveal is genuinely the only deck that I truly dread playing; the games run to script and they're boring as hell. As someone else said, it feels like authorised cheating when they can see your entire deck and you can't see theirs.

IMHO Venendal Elite is just one of the many symptoms of a game that's in poor health.

 

[Mancoon1980]

Nothing I hate more recently than playing against a reveal deck. First play 30 points 3 guardians and 3 cards revealed and attacked by ballistics.

then within the next couple plays my whole hand is revealed.. Then I start getting my valued swapped then opponent given me a 1 point silver spy... It just gets worse from there.. No one should be able to reveal a whole hand and interact with it... I feel guilty when I use Regis and consume a card from deck.. Also irritating when my gold dual card gets swapped to a 1 point unit.. So irtitating.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

I don't think they're an op card at all. They're usually dead cards in round 3 and they require a fair amount of set up. How can people complain that these cards are op when Beastmasters and Dwarves just spew out points without any drawbacks?

I actually find it dumb how Venendal Elites can steal the power of Golds but Spotters can't boost themselves by Golds.

 

[Mancoon1980]

I dislike those cards too but I can still compete against them. Agitators, 2 point spys, and beast master should be doomed. I can handle them once but gets boring while they constantly get resurrected

 

[Sheva007]

I actually find it dumb how Venendal Elites can steal the power of Golds but Spotters can't boost themselves by Golds.

I´ll explain again why these 2 cards are not comparable.


Spotters, first:

- Spotters were usually paired in deck with Geralt. In order to make your spotters a 20 card bronze all you needed to do was reveal your Geralt. 1card, and you would use your 3 spotters with it, so the setup needed to pull that off was minimal

- Spotters would benefit from cards from your hand, or from the enemy hand. Its the same, its only boosted for the power of a revealed card.


Elites:

- Elites cant be used repeteadly with the same card. Once you debuff one card with one of your Elites, the next one will need to look for another suitable target, if any, unlike Spotters.

- Elites wont target cards from the player´s hand, except for Cantarella, of course. So the pool of "suitable targets" for Elites is much smaller than the one for Spotters was (and still is)


Another viable nerf for spotters would have been "An spotter cant target an unit already targeted by another of your spotters". They decided to go with the gold restrictions, which was not really that big nerf, since you still have Cantarellas to target, you have Nilfgaardian Knights (if you play them), and several other juicy targets in the bronze and silver slots of your deck, not to mention the enemy´s hand.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

Sheva007 , that actually makes a lot of sense, thanks.

 

[nunqmuo]

Totally agree. Venedal Elite is a broken card. Not only they get strength from your cards they deny you your point. Hit 10 str unit with VE? 19 points bronze right there. And 10 is not a max they can get. And it also sucks that you can not do anything to prevent it. You cant conceal your cards. So you either forced to play sub optimally by playing revealed units earlier or suffer 20+ points swing. Reveal decks is already have advantage of being able to see opponents hand and plan and play around it. Also why spotter was nerfed (no Geralt for you bro) but VE is not? Another inconsistency out of many. So I think they should be nerfed to being able to COPY strength of bronzes and silvers (no 1 point Sasha), no golds. Or SWAP str with bronzes only.

Cheers.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I really don't agree. Reveal isn't even good right now and when I do see decent reveal decks that card is either not included or not important. It's an inconsistent card that players can many times just play around.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Reveal isn't even weak right now. I play against NG (not only reveal) waaaayyy more often than dwarves.

I'm assuming you are talking about ranked so what MMR?

 

[DCeiTFuL]

I agree that its hit or miss with VE. Not really OP. But it proves this game is moving away from its original message which was " skill beats luck" . Unfortunately its the other way around now with these types of cards. Like all these " create" cards.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I agree that its hit or miss with VE. Not really OP. But it proves this game is moving away from its original message which was " skill beats luck" . Unfortunately its the other way around now with these types of cards. Like all these " create" cards.

Luck was always going to be a defining factor unless they figured out how to fix the coin flip. But yeah they did add more with create.

 

[DeFuZe]

THis card should be silver, problem solved. Now ppl who will want to use it will have to think twice before picking a silver to replace. The power of this card is too good to be a bronze. I mean Ve+Cantarella is already silver worthy powerfull .

 

[4RM3D]

Venendal Elite has been in the game for a few patches now and while a lot of players thought the card would be OP, when the card was finally released, it turned out alright. Nothing has changed since then, except that NG Reveal has become more popular and, because of that, more players experience the effects of the card in question.

Venendal Elite is a very situational card. First of all, the Cantarella combo looks good on paper, but usually isn't that strong in practice because when you play a CA spy at the right time, its strength doesn't matter, which results in Venendal Elite being a simple 12 strength bronze. Also, this combo requires both cards in hand, which is unreliable to begin with.

The other use case of Venendal Elite is targeting the opponent's card. Even if you manage to hit a 10 strength unit, you still only play an 10 strength bronze. It's true that you've denied your opponent value, but depending on the situation, the opponent can circumvent this. For example, (s)he can mulligan away the card, or can play it in a bleeding round. Only when you can hit an important silver or gold card with Venendal Elite, it when it truly shines. On average, Venendal Elite doesn't provide as much of a power swing as you've would initially thought. Finally, the more Elites you run, the lesser its value becomes. That's why it's recommended to only use one, two tops, which is another indication as to why the card isn't too strong.

 

[ZenaRose]

Even if you manage to hit a 10 strength unit, you still only play an 11 strength bronze.

Total BS, if VE hits 10 str unit its 19 points play. If it hits its own spy its 25 points play (yes bronze Ciri Nova)
Stop defending 20+ points bronze cards, they killing gwent balance (already killed)

 

[Khreygond]

Did you even read the rest of his post? There are tons of ways to play around that card

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

When im facing reveal, at initial mulligan i already mulligan my high pt cards and valuable cards (poor Olaf never stays) so as venendal elite cant hit them.

Jeez man, is that the length i'm going to have to go to to protect my hand.



That's too much, especially just to counter some bronzes.

Developers you need to look at the extremes people are going to, it's just not right.

 

[4RM3D]

Total BS, if VE hits 10 str unit its 19 points play. If it hits its own spy its 25 points play (yes bronze Ciri Nova)
Stop defending 20+ points bronze cards, they killing gwent balance (already killed)

You cannot simply add those numbers together without looking at the circumstances. I have explained in my post why your math is wrong.

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

Not only that, its very funny to play reveal and the revealed cards in your opponents hand being a Hattori, a Barclay, and a Iortveth Meditator, making your venadel elites completely useless.

"But it hit my Olaf!!!one!one!!eleven!!! Please nerf!!twelve!"

Sigh. The problem with the community is that people is not really interested in balance, but rather in destroying the cards that counter your deck.

This is about balance, it's abilities are just too powerful for a bronze.

And with the amount of cards that reveal units now, the opponent will always get a couple of decent cards to steal from. I've lost count the amount of times almost my entire hand has been revealed.

All they need to do is play Cynthia to reveal the highest unit in opponenets hand, then they can steal it's health next round.

:surprised:

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

Even if you manage to hit a 10 strength unit, you still only play an 11 strength bronze..

That's all well and good but i think the discontent is mainly stemming from the fact it can target golds, which will more often or not ruin a ranked match.

Or at the very least but the targeted player at a severe and unfair disadvantage.

Leave it as it is, just stop it from targeting golds.

If it hits a high level gold, that almost a scorch plus it steals the power. That's a better ability then most golds.

:sleepy: