SHALLAHJUSTICE;n10259752 said:
Well written and true, for the most part.
All those annoying cards you mentioned except axemen are gold and silver, Venedral is a bronze my friend, you should not have to work around it like the other cards you mentioned.
Plus all those cards you mentioned are fairly straightforward to workaround and don't require you mulliganing valuable game winning cards.
Rag Na Roog = clear skies / Ciri = Igni / Axemen = compression /locking
Venedral elite = Mulligan the most important and high level cards in your hand.
I love all these powerful cards and i'm all for new and interesting abilities, but the Venedral ability is simply too powerful for a bronze.
Alright, let's stick to bronzes I don't like playing around.
Wild Hunt rider, Wild Hunt hound (if you don't draw weather clear these two cards suuuuuuuck to be up against), nekkers, siege support, the other siege guy, that NR knight who gets a massive boost if he's played from the deck, the regular knight who gets a massive boost if he loses his armour, the knight who buffs his pals if he has armour, Anything with the word 'Impera' in the title, vrihedd dragoons, that dwarf who buffs if he gets hurt or boosted (not a regular play but a pain in decks designed to exploit him), and others.
And your argument is a terrible one.
If you mulligan those game winning cards, it's so you can draw them again later, and if your deck is well constructed you probably will, since you'll be drawing tons of cards out of your library during the first round (most decks do a fair bit of this for greater reliability in future rounds).
But here's the thing, unless your hand is STUFF with 15+ point gold cards, you need to mulligan maybe one card. Almost every other card, if it gets revealed, you can just play it. If it's a tech gold, so what if it gets venendralled? The tech is the real power of the card anyway. So they reveal Villen. Fine. Play him. What's the elite supposed to do now? Every time you do this, the elite becomes a weaker and weaker play. And this assumes they even manage to reveal your power cards, which isn't a guarantee.
You talk about 'revealing your entire hand'. How exactly? A reveal deck's power play involves the following: Revealing a minimum of 2 Daerlan Foot Soldiers and maybe 2 cards from your hand for golems. The next play is usually revealing fire scorpions or one scorp and a card from your hand for the third golem. At this point they've played three cards - mangonel, Moovran and probably an alchemist or maybe vattier - and revealed a maximum of 3 cards from your hand, unless they're deliberately nerfing themselves and not revealing their own cards. Vattier gives a little more leeway, they might have a look at 4 cards from your hand. 5 at a big stretch.
How likely is it that you've a) played no cards they revealed at this time and b) that they have revealed every single power card in your hand and c) you are completely unable to play any of these cards to make them immune to Venendral?
Please, explain to me the hand of cards that would demand you mulligan every single power card in your hand instead of simply playing them if they got revealed. We'll exclude Olaf, because he's an auto-mulligan against reveal as he's hard to set up on the first round.
Philologus;n10260362 said:
Yes, there is a difference, but it's not a significant as you keep insinuating. The Cantarella combo aside, the fact is that VE usually targets a high-value card in your hand, regardless of its point value. So yeah.. you can go ahead and mulligan it next round, but if you don't get it back in R3, then VE has indeed performed a power-swing equivalent to double the value of the card drained. And the probability of re-drawing a card in R2 and R3 is much lower than for R1, even with multiple copies of said card.
So in other words, if you mulligan the VEd card the chances of redrawing it are quite low?
Your argument is still based on a fair bit of ifs and buts. The circumstances have to be right for VE to have any effect on the board whatsoever, and let's remember that unless VE hit an 11+ target it's a net tempo loss, as far as bronzes go these days.
So the core argument remains: a situational bronze card that is good sometimes after being set up with multiple other plays is sometimes equal to average bronze plays in the game and is occasionally really really good when the stars align.
Broken, indeed.