Vincent Van Moorlehem vs Veil

[DrunkHemplar]

How are Tyrggvy and Vincent the same Prov cost but one destroys any unit INSTANTANEOUSLY as long as they have any status EVEN VEIL or shield, but the other card that used to do that in 2 turns (Tyrggvy) now does even less and VVM has gotten the best new targets in the new Ciri: Nova, defenders and evolving cards, so Guaranteed value if you're not a complete moron.

Different factions are different, NG generally has few wombo combos, has more standalone cards, is themed more on control, etc.

SK is more about the combo and thus, their design and provisions won't be equal.

Vincent being able to instantly kill any unit with a status is good but not broken; either be more careful with your status effect targets or run a deck that doesn't use beneficial status effects very often.

Or soak the Vincent play, count the provision and play the long game, trying to drain NG of their power plays.

 

[Guest 4368268]

Vincent is busted and will continue to get more busted every patch. It's amazing that they let stuff like this go untouched for months. I could make a long winded case but other people have done a good job here already of describing everything wrong with it. But yeah, a 5 point body that insta-kills anything with one of the 100 statuses currently in the game is silly.
Another example of a "why not include it in your deck" card that will never brick and often just wins you the game even if you don't use set-up.
The card is abnormally oppressive, even by NG standards.

 

[Lufstoospooje]

I've only been playing a couple months and there is nothing more annoying than how NG seems to be invulnerable to criticism and nerfs. And they aren't the one trick pony all it's defenders make it out to be. Double-ball, poison control, assimilate and spy engines, deck removal, lock/sieze control and removal... and Vincent is viable in all these cases.

I would literally pay to not have to play them anymore. It's not fun and it's overwhelming how many people play them and no wonder with all the capabilities they have. To claim there is no advantage in NG's favor in terms of versatility and power is incredulous.

 

[Gyg]

(...) or run a deck that doesn't use beneficial status effects very often.

That is my main issue with NG. It restricts decks that are playable. Sure, their winrate maybe isn't outstanding, but every other faction must adjust to NG, forteiting cards and archetypes. New Ciri card is nice but possibility of NG matchup means it's meme card.

 

[ya1_]

Tyrggvi nerf was a hammer. Not much constructive thought behind it. So no use comparing.

It's not fair that Vissegerd was nerfed and Vincent wasn't, but Vissegerd nerf was also bad. As would be any potential Vincent nerf in a similar manner. These cards are faction flagships, they define play styles. Taking away some value, ok, but any changes to functionality (like Vissegerd) are not good unless the whole faction is overperforming.

New Ciri card is nice but possibility of NG matchup means it's meme card.

Or a possibility of MO with Oneiro into Heatwave. Or Wildcard SY. Or any which deck, honestly, with a top range to dominate over your non-existent top range. Ciri is a meme card either way.

 

[Shagric]

Tyrggvi nerf was a hammer. Not much constructive thought behind it. So no use comparing.

It's not fair that Vissegerd was nerfed and Vincent wasn't, but Vissegerd nerf was also bad. As would be any potential Vincent nerf in a similar manner. These cards are faction flagships, they define play styles. Taking away some value, ok, but any changes to functionality (like Vissegerd) are not good unless the whole faction is overperforming.



Or a possibility of MO with Oneiro into Heatwave. Or Wildcard SY. Or any which deck, honestly, with a top range to dominate over your non-existent top range. Ciri is a meme card either way.

visseguard nerf is absolutly justified and he is still playable - just not as a finisher - which is exactly what we are asking for Vincent.
and on the ciri topic: you are compairing a core card to any NG deck to tech-choises or specific archtypes. that is EXACTLY the point of this thread. make vincent a tech choice like he is supposed to be. MO would be happy if they could play a different card instead of heatwave, but they dont have one, so they have to pay a price for the techcard.

I dont know what you mean with wildcard.. Coin gain into philippa? or bank into purify? why would you add the tutor then? Noone asks for NG not to have an answer.. they still have a better heatwave (Yenn:invo) and a good purify that is run in almost every deck. I dont get why you keep behaving like NG does not have at least 3 answers for every problem.

 

[ya1_]

visseguard nerf is absolutly justified and he is still playable

It's arguable but I strongly believe that it was not. Vissegerd was too strong as a card in the vacuum but NR was not too strong as a faction in the meta. Vissey was relegated to Seltkirk league, except that Seltkirk is actually good in Inspired Zeal, while Vissegerd relies on Uprising where it's either a sitting duck or depends on zeal giving units so extra conditions and telegraphing. It's a cut, probably, no longer good. NR was the most nerfed faction this patch.

BTW SK still dominates silly. Shift to Particidal Fury gave it even more removals for Vissey. BTW, on topic, SK leader into Mad Charge is yet another card to destroy any unit unconditionally. So Vincent is really nothing to write home about.

I dont know what you mean with wildcard..

Leader into Slander into Graden = destroy any unit (and leech its base power value for 5 coin)

MO would be happy if they could play a different card instead of heatwave, but they dont have one, so they have to pay a price for the techcard.

Heatwave in MO = Vincent tempo - 1 (4 from Etherial lol). And no conditions. And they do have Imlerith Wrath, Crones, Parasite, Adda with 3 extra removal range from the Phantom, etc. They got plenty for all the point slam they do.

 

[Shagric]

you should always balance cards in regards to the state of balance that is your goal and not in compairison to other factions, otherwise you will powercreep the shit out of the game (which is happening anyway because you have to make new expensions attractive - this will just multiply the problem). visseguard was to strong, he got a nerv and he deserved it. you do not have to argue about the power of faction xyz - just compair him to other cards in the his faction that would be fighting for his spot.. none even came close..

Slander does not work on ciri, she has veil. looking at the title of the topic, you should get the hint?

you add Ethereals 4 point body to heatwave and say it does not have a condition. i think you understand that contradiction yourself since you loled right after..

 

[ReaperTek]

Source: reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/i9n2ct

 

[Celadyl]

View attachment 11055854


Source: reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/i9n2ct

I think that was in Bushy's stream and it was not the real slama but a troll afaik. later burza69 joined..

 

[Draconifors]

I think that was in Bushy's stream

The OP says it was in Specimen's.

 

[Sensimilius]

I think if Vincent was to have Rupture the same as Tvirgui (idk if I spelled the name right lol but u know who I mean) had before he was nerfed it could be good. :]

 

[Anciluart]

I think if Vincent was to have Rupture the same as Tvirgui (idk if I spelled the name right lol but u know who I mean) had before he was nerfed it could be good

So...nerf rupture in one faction to move the unnerfed rupture to another faction?

 

[Celadyl]

I think if Vincent was to have Rupture

sounds kind of shit.. on the other hand, the status would buff thirsty dames

 

[Guest 4368268]

The thing about Vincent is that in a competitive NG deck as he is now will always be included.
It's nice to be able to protect certain cards from damage with a shield and from poison with veil and now you give one faction a 5 point body to punish you for it and even if you don't play into it he'll still find easy value with his Vincent regardless.
He's basically the hard defender counter (bar the SY match-up) and alternatively now the killer of the 7p veil engines.
In the Dwarves match-up he kills a resilient unit. In the ST match-up he kills a Hamadryad.

In the mirror he can kill a Hefty Helge. Against NR he kills whichever bronze Adalia procs. With every faction there's just a card that's an easy Vincent target. Of course it also procs the beloved Masquerade Ball. I don't like these strong control cards that always find value because in my 'game philosophy' running control should be a conscious choice because there ought to be a big risk factor there. That risk factor should be your strong control card bricking as it's being played around. When that's not there you just slap in control cards and maybe they hit expected value and maybe they just win you the game.

Forest protector is a very strong auto include card essentially because of the nature's rebuke interaction. That's a 5 point body that deals 5 damage and if it kills whatever it targets it gets boosted by 2. So a ceiling of 12 direct points (removal value notwithstanding) Compare that to the ceiling Vincent has. You can make the argument that Vincent is riskier because of the condition but that's the thing, that argument just gets weaker and weaker as more cards with statuses roll out and I think the argument is weak with the current meta anyway.

Imagine you're playing an immortals deck (might be painful to imagine, but try ) you build around a certain idea/card and you already have a 1001 ways to lose the game. Now there's this hyper punish card (which is auto-include) going around. Some will argue (well you trade up in terms of provisions, so you actually win in this scenario) but that's just not true when it shuts a big part of your strategy down.

TL;DR I think the 5 point body is too strong and it just finds great targets way too easily.

 

[ShinAkira00]

He's basically the hard defender counter (bar the SY match-up) and alternatively now the killer of the 7p veil engines.

The irony here is the same faction with Vincent, the perfect defender counter also has the perfect counter for SY defender as well with Mage Infiltrater so they have no trouble with SY defenders either. If they don't even have infiltrater Braathens allows them to "Randomly" create one. I put random in quotes because Braathens only has 3 disloyal units in the pool to draw from so it's not random at all. And as an added bonus it can counter Endrega Larva. It's quite obvious the devs intentionally design these cards to keep NG in that position of dominance. I don't think it will change because they think it's somehow good for the community.

 

[Guest 4368268]

The irony here is the same faction with Vincent, the perfect defender counter also has the perfect counter for SY defender as well with Mage Infiltrater so they have no trouble with SY defenders either. If they don't even have infiltrater Braathens allows them to "Randomly" create one. I put random in quotes because Braathens only has 3 disloyal units in the pool to draw from so it's not random at all. And as an added bonus it can counter Endrega Larva. It's quite obvious the devs intentionally design these cards to keep NG in that position of dominance. I don't think it will change because they think it's somehow good for the community.

Yep and that is only made more frustrating to many players because NG happens to be the very faction they're running a defender for. I know NG is their designated control faction and that's fine, but when you're just printing out faction specific cards with the purpose of "here, now you can deal with larvas" or "here, now you can deal with defenders" I don't think you're helping the health of the game.

 

[Payus]

Vincent simply must pay Tirgvvi's state a visit. And stay there.

 

[Philido]

Vincent simply must pay Tirgvvi's state a visit. And stay there.

Nah, he needs to keep his current deploy. In the end all gentlemen have their vices.

 

[Payus]

Nah, he needs to keep his current deploy. In the end all gentlemen have their vices.

He could get order with zeal if there's 2 statuses on the enemy board.
Or just -1 power/-2 power. Provisions are okay.

I agree that all gentlemen have their vices, tho.