Visual customization - Whats the Point?

[Bartinga2077]

"VISUAL CUSTOMIZATION - WHATS THE POINT?"​

Immersion?

"Did the decision to cut third person cutscenes leave the visual customization in a non-sensical, superfluous state?"
Guessing here but it has all the toe tail marks this could be correct.

I'm using the TPP mod, so always see V's appearance, but as much I love the game, were it not for the visual customizations feature, would've quit the game a long time ago. Much more, wouldn't even have bothered buying it. So I'm happy it's in it still. Knew upfront a modder or two would pop up with a TPP mod soon after release, and happy I was seeing that was the case.

Games without any character customization are over and done with lightning quick with me. Super boring. FF7R's a good example. Same costume the entire game through, and pretty lame ones at that. 1 playthrough, I was done. €60.00 down the drain.

It was a bad decision choosing "FPP only", if you ask me, but at least a good decision leaving the visual customization in.

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

I kind of think of it like an old pen & paper RPG where you'd normally have a scrappy drawing or approximation of your character.

Whatever the intent or reason behind not showing the player's V in third-person gameplay, I find the visual customization contributes to the internal roleplaying I have going on in my head; outside of the invetory screen I'm OK with V's appearance lacking external representation, however there is full body awareness which is nice in a first-person game (though proper shadows and reflections would be nice...) I can easily visualise my V in conversations and how NPCs view them.

 

[Kizu_KCM]

the same thing happens with vehicles, what is the purpose with a fast trip every 2 blocks.

 

[msxyz]

CDPR should be wise to introduce some quick 'customization' free DLCs to keep people onboard while it tries to salvage this game. Looking at what modders were able to do even without tools, a small team of GFX artists should be able to achieve much more.

 

[Bukary77]

I got a bit of good news for you about mirrors: from what little i know about how reflections are calculated, plus from what i see CDPR doing about mirrors in 1.2 (as reported by some posts in the forum), plus from what i know about how frame limiter allowed to avoid mirror bug in earlier versions just fine, - from all this, i'm plenty sure CDPR will soon manage the technical side of the "mirror issue" completely, after which we can hope to see lots more reflections appearing in the game and working smoothly.

At least, there are rational reasons to hope for it which i see. Perhaps in couple more major patches? We'll see.

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, I am afraid that the lack of V's reflections is not exactly tied to some problems with REDengine. We do not see V in mirrors because our character does not have a proper 3D model (with proper animations) that could be reflected in any situation (pose). One can easily notice this while observing V's shadow. That's why we are given some "static" reflection with fixed pose (in the game) and that's why we are arranged in a specific way in photo mode.

 

[DarkTl]

I mean, how often you "hop out" of your 1st-person view to observe yourself "from above" in real life? This is why for many people it feels very, very wrong when a game switches back and forth between 1st and 3rd player character view many a time.

I conclude you never played Deus Ex. There weren't "many people" who found it wrong.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, I am afraid that the lack of V's reflections is not exactly tied to some problems with REDengine. We do not see V in mirrors because our character does not have a proper 3D model (with proper animations) that could be reflected in any situation (pose). One can easily notice this while observing V's shadow. That's why we are given some "static" reflection with fixed pose (in the game) and that's why we are arranged in a specific way in photo mode.

Why no, V has proper 3D model alright. Which is used to render all the body parts we can see in 1st-person - simply looking down can see one's legs, sliding and getting dropped shows even more parts, etc. It's just animations which are, let's say, incomplete. And it ain't something which can't be fixed - technically, that is.

I have the impression that someone, at some point, in CDPR, decided that "in order to properly show all the movements required in 1st-person mode, such as aiming, we must add some unnaturally-looking-if-in-3rd-person player character moves. And they did. And that's why it looks so broken when in 3rd person, as initially the plan was to never let players see how messy those animations look in 3rd person mode (why nobody considered the fact that folks will still see the uglyness by means of observing V's shadow - i have no idea whatsoever).

Thing is, those "broken doll" sort of animations - it can be fixed / improved. It's challenging work alright considering all the requirements and involves some "1st-person-view-only" cosmetic-only animations added to make things look good in 1st person while in the same time maintaining "only realistic" animations being "actually" applied to player character, which opens its own can of worms, sure - but overall, it's doable.

 

[Phair]

One thing that got me right away, is that you can kill a NPC who is wearing some real cool looking clothing, but when you loot them, you get some ugly pair of pants, or top. Always made me wonder where they were actually carrying this clothing. lol

 

[_Fender_]

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, I am afraid that the lack of V's reflections is not exactly tied to some problems with REDengine. We do not see V in mirrors because our character does not have a proper 3D model (with proper animations) that could be reflected in any situation (pose). One can easily notice this while observing V's shadow. That's why we are given some "static" reflection with fixed pose (in the game) and that's why we are arranged in a specific way in photo mode.

Are you sure about that? I know V doesnt have good animation model but I think main problem is engine - every time we use mirrors, everything behind V is adjusted and fully controlled by scripts. When you use mirror in V`s apartment the curtain in living room will close down automatically so there is no reflection of a city, time of day and natural light. They wound not script this stuff if it was only poor animation of a character.

 

[Kizu_KCM]

Are you sure about that? I know V doesnt have good animation model but I think main problem is engine - every time we use mirrors, everything behind V is adjusted and fully controlled by scripts. When you use mirror in V`s apartment the curtain in living room will close down automatically so there is no reflection of a city, time of day and natural light. They wound not script this stuff if it was only poor animation of a character.

But reflections are present for everything else without using RTX.

They rushed everything to be in 1st person and did not finish it, it is ridiculous to make the head invisible in 1st person when it can be made not visible to the camera we use to see but visible to the rest of the world. Even in 1st person animations are missing, we have movements of a spastic.

 

[msxyz]

Indeed, there are plenty of examples of games that can be played in first or third person and with fully animated body. Right before CP2077, I was playing a bit of Conan Exiles: this game has fully customizable bodies, (height, build), clothes that are automatically fitted to the body, good physics (both clothes, hair and body) and seamless first/third person integration. It is made by a small studio (Funcom) with possibly a fraction of the manpower of CDPR and yet they delivered a really impressive open world game (including the ability to build huge bases in game with an incredible amount of detail).

 

[JCB1994]

For me, it feels like it's purely for (the quite limited) camera mode, not much else, given that all I is see during gameplay is coloured nails (which aren't even adjustable after the game starts -.-') Other than that, there are rolled up sleeves, which have little effect, if any. If they were aiming for immersion with character customisation, they have missed it by a very long distance.

As much as I hate comparisons with GTA customisation and its FPP, it offers perfect examples of what does work (at least in my humble opinion); putting glasses on will apply a respective tint to the player view. Similarly, putting on a balaclava/ face covering will apply a vignette to the player view. When driving, there's jewellery that's visible, which for me means that I'll be doing rally racing and can see my character's bangles or gold cuffs :3

​

Maybe GTA has spoiled me, but it is an existing benchmark, once which was released almost six years ago.

 

[MonteC20]

I just want to know. Will we ever get third person view? After all, I have gone through slot of game hours gathering cloths that I will never see??. Also I like to see my surroundings during game play, especially during battle.

 

[Netrunner2go]

I just want to know. Will we ever get third person view? After all, I have gone through slot of game hours gathering cloths that I will never see??. Also I like to see my surroundings during game play, especially during battle.

Most probably not. Think your biggest hope in this regard is the 3rd person mod on pc - hopefully this one will be worked and tuned on more and more. For consoles I doubt the chance will be high any time soonish tho : /

 

[BionicDance]

they promoted style as major aspect in this game and removed it literally everywhere... no cuts, no reflections, no mirrors, no point in SC (other than unlocking cyberware)

They sure did make it sound in their Night City Wires like style mattering more than substance meant NPCs will react to you based on how you're dressed.

As it is, fashion seems entirely meaningless.

And yet, it's still annoying when I can get an Epic or Legendary version of a bit of clothing I find aesthetically pleasing and it has, like, four mod slots... and no way to change the bleeping, censored color. Or pattern.
It's like, I love V's poofy Joey Buttafuoco pants, but not with the blue and lavender vertical stripes! Egad! But the version in solid steel blue is generic and has no mod slots! Hmph.

 

[batouyukinawa]

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, I am afraid that the lack of V's reflections is not exactly tied to some problems with REDengine. We do not see V in mirrors because our character does not have a proper 3D model (with proper animations) that could be reflected in any situation (pose). One can easily notice this while observing V's shadow. That's why we are given some "static" reflection with fixed pose (in the game) and that's why we are arranged in a specific way in photo mode.

Think they may have changed this. My V which is the female V looks correct in my shadow. Even has that feminine sway women have due to their wider hips. So maybe they fixed them?

 

[PepeSmug]

Think they may have changed this. My V which is the female V looks correct in my shadow. Even has that feminine sway women have due to their wider hips. So maybe they fixed them?

Nope. The player model is still a headless, contorted monstrosity that isn't fit to be seen. And it isn't a matter of them being "fixed" because they were never "broken". Lack of a proper character model was 100% a development shortcut, plain and simple. They made up all the nonsense about first person being more "immersive" to make it sound like a creative decision after the fact.

 

[batouyukinawa]

Yeah, well my V has a head. She's balled though lol. So looks like her hair isn't factoring into her model. I do remember my shadow was jacked up before the 1.2 patch though.

 

[Sentar-dv]

As for me, there must be and option "Mirrors always ON" so we can occasionally run into mirror and look at ourselves. It will cost some performance (maybe even a lot) but it will please a LOT of players. Also... reflections in mirrorlike windows... we need them...

As for now, clothing customization is mostly for beautiful screenshots. And it's horribly limited too, because theres so few clothing item types and even fewer ways to obtain them, because shops inventory doesn't changing and enemies loot lists are so static and short...

So appearance element of the game needs really serious overhaul!

 

[greeks]

I wouldn't be surprised if they made an expansion further down the line and implemented the third person view. But it would also mean that they would have to rework the gameplay. We would have to get the option of hiding behind obstacles during combat. I don't think a TPP view is impossible to implement. It could still work even without the cutscenes.

As it stands right now the visual customisation is absolutely visible as we can drive vehicles in third person and our clothes and at least parts of our virtual bodies are visible in mirrors and cutscenes.

So yeah, visual customisation definitely important.