If there are going to be voices, yes, limiting it to one each gender, no accents or wierd inflection, is the best compromise.
If there are going to be voices, yes, limiting it to one each gender, no accents or wierd inflection, is the best compromise.
Your point is mute, since they are telling a singleplayer cyberpunk story and any protagonist they create is going to be a set protagonist one way or another.. If i have to give example to this, take Dragon Age Origins for instance, you could be a male or female, a magi, human noble, dalish elf, city elf, dwarf commoner or a dwarf noble but you will always be the person who got recruited by Duncan, the guy or girl who got recruited as a Gray Warden, the guy who survived the joining ritual, the guy who fought at the battle of Ostagar and when things got sour, escaped with Alistair, the guy who met with all same companions, the guy who used the treaties to raise an army to defeat the blight and actually does defeat the blight.. Everything else is just minor differences.. So.. what difference did it make DAO having no set protagonist? You could be anything you want, but that would not change what will happen to you and it would effect very little how npc's will react to you.. You see, say "no set protagonist" all you want, but in a story, protagonist is already set.. No one will refer to you with the name you pick, no one will refer to overly large mustache you picked at character creation.. What you can say is pretty much decided beforehand.. You cannot go outside the main plot.. Your options at character creation can effect very little.. People will rather refer to your chosen class than anything else.. A good example is Mass Effect, where people referred to you being a biotic or whatever..
Mass Effect was kind of an open galaxy.. You could visit most planets at any given time.. It wasn't a linear shooter.. So you don't even have a point there..
Also, Shepard's voices being dull is YOUR opinion.. And you would agree that Geralt was voiced and not dull at all.. So it is all in the writing..
And the SR3 thing, what the hell is your point? Who wanted multiple voice options? Who the hell gave SR3 example? Who said that SR3 was an RPG? You are just trowing stuff around now.. If you weren't quoting me specifically, i would have thought you were talking with someone else.. I will get you for this.. Now, where is my evil-genious new invention..
It is important, but it doesn't require 10 different voice options.. One for male and one for female is enough.. (with an option to turn it on and off)
Balance where you like it and not so much when you don't eh? You hypocrite mod.. Time will come when we burn down your castles and take over this forum.. I'm planning to use little minions.. Probably cats.. Since thats the weakness of some dragon mod.. And it will work on Sard too, one he starts making jokes about cats and Dragonbird..You will see.. YOU WILL ALL SEE!!
Thats what i have been saying all along...
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I agree with thewarsend. I disagree with my co-mods.
Clearly, I'm still asleep and this is all just a bad dream. Could someone wake me up when it's morning?
There are aspects of VA work that I hope they DON'T spend a lot of money. Famous actors, for a start, And that idea that was tabled early on about not localising all of the NPC's but using some kind of translator device instead.
But I do want a voiced protagonist, absolutely. One male and one female for each localised game language. Because there is something inherently jarring in being able to listen to every character in the game except my own.
I want to see my character's body language, so I want dialogue to be third-person view, without my character keeping his mouth shut while everyone around him speaks (Dragon Age). I want to hear the emotion that goes into the voice. I want to be focus on the visuals, not subtitles. I want what thewarsend wants, dammit.
@Sardukhar - nonsense. Nobody could like that taste, it's like tough rabbit, only more gamey.
Clearly, I'm still asleep and this is all just a bad dream. Could someone wake me up when it's morning?
There are aspects of VA work that I hope they DON'T spend a lot of money. Famous actors, for a start, And that idea that was tabled early on about not localising all of the NPC's but using some kind of translator device instead.
But I do want a voiced protagonist, absolutely. One male and one female for each localised game language. Because there is something inherently jarring in being able to listen to every character in the game except my own.
I want to see my character's body language, so I want dialogue to be third-person view, without my character keeping his mouth shut while everyone around him speaks (Dragon Age). I want to hear the emotion that goes into the voice. I want to be focus on the visuals, not subtitles. I want what thewarsend wants, dammit.
@Sardukhar - nonsense. Nobody could like that taste, it's like tough rabbit, only more gamey.
I respect you Newt-Hooters, but agreeing with war... are you feeling ok...
See, now you are just getting silly... I don't know how many localised game languages there are going to be, but that many voice overs is really going to eat into resources.... even with a bare minimum of 3 (english, polish, and I dunno... chinese) thats 6 voice overs now...
One female, one male, no accent or inflection... anything else is overkill...
Um... unless you are talking about for each region the game is sold in... then its still 2... except for Cananda and stupid canadian laws... always gotta be speaking both brit and frenchy with their silly floppy heads...
There has to be one set per localised language, so yes, a cost I think they need to bear. They don't localise the game for all countries in which they sell, so maybe 6 x 2 or thereabouts If they need to save money, they can always cut back on unnecessary items like vehicle choice.
And please, not British-English for this game. It's bound to be the wrong accent. Should be American.
And please, not British-English for this game. It's bound to be the wrong accent. Should be American.
The point is far from mute. Just like in DA:O, where you character is a blank slate, having voices wouldn't work. I don't expect a dwarf to sound the same as an elf, the elf - the same as a human etc. Nor do I expect a dwarven noble to sound the same as casteless dwarf. The same applies to Cyberpunk - someone from the corporate world wouldn't sound the way, say, a nomad would, or what have you. In Mass Effect, you play as a pre-determined character to an extent - you're a military man/woman - so having only 2 VAs kind of works. In The Witcher, you play as Geralt, an entirely pre-determined character, so that's a non-issue.
I don't understand what having a voiced or silent protagonist has to do with how NPC's react to your character btw. That's an entirely different discussion.
Mass Effect was a set of HUBs and dungeons, which you could jump around to and from. Hardly a fully open world, much more different than what Cyberpunk is.
Since Geralt was a pre-determined character, the voice was very specific - that's my point. Shepard was only partially pre-determined. The voices worked for some of my versions of Shepard, but not for all. This is why I said it was half-assed. If you don't have a set character, like Geralt, you need to either keep the protagonist silent so the voice doesn't interfere with your vision of them, or you need to provide a wide array of VA options, which would cost a lot.
In Cyberpunk, you can play as characters from a variety of backgrounds, unlike Shepard in ME, so having only 2 VA would be even worse than it is in BioWare's sci-fi.
I gave SR3 as an example of an open world game with multiple VAs done right, to contrast your example of ME3 - a linear game with only 2 options for VAs. I brought that up as an example to show that this only works, because, while it's open world, it lacks branching dialogue, which is a must for an RPG based on a PnP game. This limits the number of lines being recorded greatly, thus allowing for multiple VAs to be included. An RPG where you need 2 or more lines for each situation means that much more resources would need to be spent on recording those lines for the different options you could choose in a dialogue tree.
I disagree with this. I am sorry but a cop does not speak the same way as someone from the streets would. Entirely different backgrounds, unlike Shepard or Hawke, which had a very well defined and pre-determined background story to them. Better to keep the protagonist silent to avoid such situations. Or provide a good amount of VA options, which, as I think we all agree, would cost entirely too much money.
Thief, which you give as an example, is an action/stealth game where dialogue is only a small part of the game. Recording the lines and then letting the player turn the VA on/off isn't a huge deal, since you didn't spend that much on the VA anyway. It's also just one VA, so the costs are cut even more.
This is much different in an RPG where dialogue is one of the main gameplay elements. If you spend resources on VAs, you want to use them, as it's a huge investment. It gets even worse if the RPG uses cinematic dialogue scenes (which is exactly what CDPR are using), because this then means those animations and lip syncing are also wasted if the player chooses to turn the VO off. Keeping it simple by having only a silent protagonist significantly lowers the cost.
As I said, everything should be balanced. Which was a comment on this: "So, in your opinion, we should cut vehicles, multiple layered clothing, weapon customization, etc. and have a bigger map" is not balance and not what wisdom, who you were quoting, was suggesting. Putting words in other people's mouths isn't very nice and not useful during discussions, I'm afraid.
Having balance is also important in how dialogues are handled.
I believe that a silent protagonist is a balanced option. It means a lower budget, it allows for more dialogue options since you don't need to record lines for them, while allowing you to customise the character any way you want, without having to worry if the VA will fit a certain option. Trade off is, well, the protagonist doesn't speak. Which some people prefer, others don't. So it costs less, enables the devs to include more options and it keeps some people happy.
Having only a few VA's is not good enough. Since you're recording VAs, that means each extra branching option in the dialogue is associated with extra costs. Both the male and female VA needs to record extra lines. So, naturally, that means cutting down dialogue that is class/gender/etc specific. Bad for a game that's based on a PnP RPG that allows for a fully customsable character, as it limits the role-playing options. And, in the end, you still end up with people not being happy with the VAs, since they don't like them or they don't fit the character someone was playing as.
Numerous VAs is overdoing it: Stupidly high budget. Some people will still complain the options are not enough. Has the same problem as having only a couple of VAs - each extra dialogue line is assosiated with VA costs. Only now you have even more VA's, so the resources required skyrocket.
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Then my vote just swang straight to silent protagonist...
I think I'm writing this day on the calendar - the day Dragon betrayed us. Also, horrifying that you know the taste.
I agree with my fellow mod. Whatever he was saying is correct. See, Dragon? Teamwork.
I do think enough voice actors are important, because I played Oblivion. If you have, you already agree. We've talked cost before and, as always, it's tough to suss out how much CDPR wants to devote to what element of the game. Voice acting is demonstrably important in CDPR games, just to what degree is the question.
I don't know if CDPR is using cinematic dialogue scenes for CP2077 or in-game engine renders as you play. The lip-synching could be an important point but again, I don''t know how much effort that requires. They did a pretty good job with all the NPCs in Witcher 2, though.
I would like to see more than one male/female option. I'd accept that, sure, but as MY FELLOW MOD WHOM I LOYALLY SUPPORT AGAINST YOU FORUM SCUM says, there is a big difference in how different levels of the Street sound. I'd hope I had at least a few selections for different Roles like Corp vs Cop vs Fixer. Street Voice, Professional Voice, Educated Voice, Psycho Voice, Euro Accent, Clint Eastwood Voice.
I'm hurt hardly anyone else wants to do some of their own dialogue.
Edit: also, "Newt-Hooters"? Genius. It's not even necessarily sexual, since hooter could be a bird. You clever bastard.
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Californian. Californian is so very wrong it's just perfect. Technically, this clip is SoCal, nor NorCal. SoCal speakers stereotyplcally use the definite article with highway numbers, as in "the 101". NorCal speakers stereotypically use the intensifier "hella", as in "That shirt's hella dough. And having the same one as six other people in this club is a hella don't." [Macklemore, "Thrift Shop"]
SNL: THE CALIFORNIANS
Ah, but this is where we disagree. I considered it a weakness in DA:O, especially when there was a conversation going on and The Warden was standing there looking gormless and silent even though he was supposed to be talking. If the dialogue is third-person view, VA for the protagonist is essential. If it's first-person, they could get away with it, but I don't really want first-person. DA:2 almost got it right, but blew it with the protagonist accents (at least in English).
The solution is to use unknown actors, and an experienced VA director (so that we don't get the problems that TW1 had).
I get that you considered it a weakness. But there are also quite a few people that considered it a strength, since an arbitrary voice wasn't forced on their character. Thing is, though, having a voice costs more than not having a voice. Either way, someone's going to be unhappy, might as well go with the most cost-efficient option.
You also must understand that the protagonist in DA2 is much different than the one from DA:O. Hawke already had a background established prior to the game, that you could not change (which pissed off a lot of people, I might add), whereas in DA:O you could choose from a variety of backgrounds and races - kind of what Cyberpunk is going to be like. This made having only 2 available VA's possible in DA2, while keeping the costs to a relatively reasonable level.
Please no. That skit was pretty funny, but if I sound like that in game, I may cry. "Hu-hu..jumped on the back of a taaaco truuck and hauled ass.."
Using the slang would be fine, though.
I'm kinda curious, how DA:I will end up. As we know multiple races are coming back, and there will be voiced main protagonist. If BioWare choose to have just one voice for female and male Inquisitor, then well, it's gonna be fun, when my elf blood mage gonna sound exactly the same as qunari rogue.
All in all, Bio tries to accomplish exactly what we are talking about (I think). I just hope, CDPR will draw lessons from their failure or success in this matter.
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Yes, I'm not really sure how the plan to handle this. They do have EA backing them, so they could potentially pull off multiple voice actors. They did it for TOR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QKMJVGw7I), but that's also the second most expensive game ever made, after GTA V, with estimated development cost of $200 000 000 +
WoW, by comparison, cost "only" $60 000 000 to develop.
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I still stick to my guns on thinking silent would be better overall, but I got to thinking of the kind of voices I would like to hear if voices are a must...
For the male PC, a voice like Nathan Fillions or Karl Urban. With Karl actually being the number one choice as he is more familiar with the grenre.... though Fillion sneaking in a firefly reference could be fun...
For women, Gina Torres or the chick who plays Black Canary on Arrow would work well.
Clear, unaccented voices, strong with a hint of tragedy...
Also, Coldbloodedwithfeathers got me thinking...
What if the voice over tracks were actually DLC, seperate from the main disk, either as a mini-disk or as true downloadable content?
That way we could have a wide variety of voices, in all gazillion required languages (because CDPR has a wierd strategy in this department)...
Voice over tracks are just cued files, so I would think they would be a pretty simple thing to add DLC content for, I have never seen anyone do it that way and know next to nothing about programming, but it seems like a pretty simple thing...
For the male PC, a voice like Nathan Fillions or Karl Urban. With Karl actually being the number one choice as he is more familiar with the grenre.... though Fillion sneaking in a firefly reference could be fun...
For women, Gina Torres or the chick who plays Black Canary on Arrow would work well.
Clear, unaccented voices, strong with a hint of tragedy...
Also, Coldbloodedwithfeathers got me thinking...
What if the voice over tracks were actually DLC, seperate from the main disk, either as a mini-disk or as true downloadable content?
That way we could have a wide variety of voices, in all gazillion required languages (because CDPR has a wierd strategy in this department)...
Voice over tracks are just cued files, so I would think they would be a pretty simple thing to add DLC content for, I have never seen anyone do it that way and know next to nothing about programming, but it seems like a pretty simple thing...
You know what, I want R. Lee Ermey to do some voice work for 2077.
TOTALLY AGREED, don't waste money on "big name" voice talent. Hire from the local actors school, hire that waitress waiting for her big break, heck contact the local high school drama club. It's an absolute waste of money to pay someone thousands to read lines for NPC's or characters, there are dozens of people out there that would be willing to read the lines for a couple hundred and NOT want a percentage of the gross.
I agree 100%, a good, well experienced VA director and unknown actors would be the way to go.. They shouldn't make the mistake the developers of "Oblivion" did.. They blew more than half of the voice acting budget on a "big name", so they had to make do with terrible voice actors and a below average VA director.. (Not to mention, the character who was voiced by the "big name" died in the beginning of the game.. What a waste of resources..)
They should hire a bunch of unknown actors and divide it into two groups, first group, lets call them the "talented bunch" should voice the characters from the main storyline and companions.. Second group, lets call them the "untalented bunch" (or rather "not-so-talented bunch") should voice the side quests and unimportant npc's.. Heck, as long as main characters and companions sound good enough, i don't care who voices unimportant npc's.. (as long as they are voiced of course)
I rather have 100 unknown VA voicing different npc's, rather than having like 5 known VA voicing everyone in the game like Skyrim did.. Everybody sounding exactly same really takes away from the immersion..
(Though i would like to see Claudia Black as one of the VA.. I really love her voice..)
What they need is someone who sounds like Claudia Black, or Karl Urban, or whoever. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Realistically, how many people would actually say "Ooooh, it's got Claudia Black in it. No idea what the game is, but I must buy it!" ? The most it can do is draw some attention to it, and there must be cheaper ways of doing that.
Realistically, how many people would actually say "Ooooh, it's got Claudia Black in it. No idea what the game is, but I must buy it!" ? The most it can do is draw some attention to it, and there must be cheaper ways of doing that.