WAAAAAAY MORE CONTENT THAN THEY LET ON... For example...

+
Status
Not open for further replies.
There's a whole huge ass puzzle at Catch a Tyger by the Toe now. I don't mean the silly thing where you go raid a basement. I mean that basement is integral to this whole other thing going on now.

Like this dude... wtf did this dude come from?

Oh... AND FORCE DETONATION is an option.

What are we forcing to detonate? Well, fk if I know guys... just saying... lot more content here than they're letting on.
 

Attachments

  • photomode_18082021_190020.png
    photomode_18082021_190020.png
    2.5 MB · Views: 465
There's a whole huge ass puzzle at Catch a Tyger by the Toe now. I don't mean the silly thing where you go raid a basement. I mean that basement is integral to this whole other thing going on now.

Like this dude... wtf did this dude come from?

Oh... AND FORCE DETONATION is an option.

What are we forcing to detonate? Well, fk if I know guys... just saying... lot more content here than they're letting on.
Where is the photo? I did this mission recently without anything extra..
 

CEAN0

Forum regular
That guy has always been there and you have always been able to get in there trough a window at the fire escape at the front of the building ;)
 
It's pretty clear that they had to put a lot of content on hold to shoehorn the Keanu story in and get the game finished in time.

The biggest gaping hole is the lack of resolution to the AI storyline. There are so many threads dangling there, ranging from shard hints to the abruptly curtailed Peralez quest, which is really an awesome questline with a great sense of atmosphere that just goes ... nowhere.

I reckon they had some big thing related to AI and Netwatch planned - in fact it wouldn't surprise me if that was the main endgame idea, or one of the main endgame ideas, before Keanu said "yes."

Thinking about it logically, if the original intention was for 3 "lifepaths", then each of them would have had some biggish MQ with its own distinct endgame, and I think that's what we see vestiges of in all the "dangling bits" in the game we have now.

They really should have kept the V/Keanu story as a major reveal DLC and just had a few Keanu cameos in this. Nobody would have been disappointed, because nobody expected Keanu in the first place. We expected a rich CRPG. That's not what we got. We got half a rich CRPG with a cinematic story experience tacked on.
 
It's pretty clear that they had to put a lot of content on hold to shoehorn the Keanu story in and get the game finished in time.
Not so clear for me...
V's story would remain the same as it is now without Keanu (Johnny-rockerboy&terrorist in the head), but with a random unknow "Johnny". Maybe with a little bit less dialogue lines (and without Arch bike), but that's all ;)
I really don't know why players think that Keanu have change the whole story. Honestly, I wonder o_O

And the "unended quests", like the Peralez quest or Guarry's quest, could probably annonce an expansion...
For lifepath ? 3 different games/MQ in one game ? No way...
 
Last edited:
Why people still think that Keanu changed storyline of a game when it was many times said by people who work in CDP that it wasnt a case?
Yea people are still choosing to belive *that rumor* - There was like a leak few months back of supposedly CDPR employee etc. Youtubers like Open World Games or Juice Head spin this record over and over, cause views and people wont check it beyond that. Sad

:shrug:
 
Anyway, this area is like plenty of other ones in the game, modified/finished between day one and now, and didn't mentioned in patch notes :)
 
Why people still think that Keanu changed storyline of a game when it was many times said by people who work in CDP that it wasnt a case?
Because it's the only way to make sense of the game we have, which is like half an RPG with a logic that is completely at odds with the idea of a linear story with as much momentum (and a death clock) as the story has.

The open world, the quests, the gigs, all those speak of a game where you're working your way up from zero to hero, exploring the zones, getting to know the area, the characters, etc., and probably with some large story being gradually uncovered (like for example the fact that the AIs are trying to take over or something). IOW the basis of a straightforward "proper" CRPG.

The V/Keanu story is good in and of itself, don't get me wrong - I enjoyed it. And it might be true that something like that story was envisaged for the endgame of the game we have. But given the logic of the RPG half of the game, I very much doubt that it was originally envisioned as the main backbone of the RPG. And certainly any efforts to make it such must necessarily have taken time and effort away from finishing the game, the actual CRPG.

There's also quite a bit of forensic circumstantial evidence (from the marketing, from datamining dangly bits in quests, etc.) that suggests this isn't the game they had planned and that the re-jigging was a decision they made in the last couple of years (maybe after Keanu accepted).

As to what CDPR say - they're going to have to work long and hard to regain the trust they lost with this mess.

Also, I'm not sure denying it does them any good, because then any reasonable explanation for why we have a half-baked CRPG with a story involving a famous actor taking front and center, must involve even worse imputations than them being starstruck.
 
Last edited:
Well, its your assumption but really theres not real evidence that game story/content shifted at some point when Keanu got on board.

I think some people mistake natural way of production where you implement some stuff, test it and remove it when it doesnt really fit vision or work as intended with cutting content they would otherwise had if there was no Keanu.

Its like when you make a movie and there are loads of cut scenes at the end not because there was no time to edit them, but because they werent really necessary at the end.

I can clearly see of course that there is very variable standard of quality in CP2077 and while some things are very polished and great, some feel like they need more time of development. I just dont think blaming Keanu or story designers is a right thing to do.
 
Well, its your assumption but really theres not real evidence that game story/content shifted at some point when Keanu got on board.

I think some people mistake natural way of production where you implement some stuff, test it and remove it when it doesnt really fit vision or work as intended with cutting content they would otherwise had if there was no Keanu.

Its like when you make a movie and there are loads of cut scenes at the end not because there was no time to edit them, but because they werent really necessary at the end.

I can clearly see of course that there is very variable standard of quality in CP2077 and while some things are very polished and great, some feel like they need more time of development. I just dont think blaming Keanu or story designers is a right thing to do.

It's not an "assumption" it's a conjecture based on evidence and fact: the fact that there is any sort of CRPG at all (and quite a big, detailed CRPG at that, with lots of side-quests, tiny hand-placed details, etc.) tells you immediately that the V/Johnny story wasn't meant to be front and center from the beginning, even if it was maybe planned in some sense (as perhaps the endgame or whatever). With the V/Johnny story as it is, the open world, the gigs from fixers, the police quests, the lavish detail - ALL OF THAT IS POINTLESS. It's a fairly simple, linear story that needs no big open world attached to it, that needs no fixers or gigs or any of that stuff. You can beeline the MQ and main SQs in about 20-30 hours and lose out on NOTHING in that MQ and story. That is not an RPG. Yet they also built an RPG that's unfinished. That is a contradiction.

That HUGE contradiction, along with the evidence from the marketing, etc., makes it more than an assumption. It's not certain, and the details are hard to pin down (whether the V/Johnny story was intended all along but maybe as endgame material, perhaps, or whether it was just shoehorned in 2 years before release). But it's highly plausible, not just some cockamamie thing people have come up with off the top of their heads for no reason at all.
 
Because it's the only way to make sense of the game we have, which is like half an RPG with a logic that is completely at odds with the idea of a linear story with as much momentum (and a death clock) as the story has.

The open world, the quests, the gigs, all those speak of a game where you're working your way up from zero to hero, exploring the zones, getting to know the area, the characters, etc., and probably with some large story being gradually uncovered (like for example the fact that the AIs are trying to take over or something). IOW the basis of a straightforward "proper" CRPG.

The V/Keanu story is good in and of itself, don't get me wrong - I enjoyed it. And it might be true that something like that story was envisaged for the endgame of the game we have. But given the logic of the RPG half of the game, I very much doubt that it was originally envisioned as the main backbone of the RPG. And certainly any efforts to make it such must necessarily have taken time and effort away from finishing the game, the actual CRPG.

There's also quite a bit of forensic circumstantial evidence (from the marketing, from datamining dangly bits in quests, etc.) that suggests this isn't the game they had planned and that the re-jigging was a decision they made in the last couple of years (maybe after Keanu accepted).

As to what CDPR say - they're going to have to work long and hard to regain the trust they lost with this mess.

Also, I'm not sure denying it does them any good, because then any reasonable explanation for why we have a half-baked CRPG with a story involving a famous actor taking front and center, must involve even worse imputations than them being starstruck.
Without that story or a variant of it the entire game doesn't make sense. Almost every quest looks, from different angles, at the question of what is a soul and what is consciousness. A number of quests look at the duality of the soul. There is a band in the game called the Cartesian Duellists (from Cartesian Dualism -- Descartes' view of the distinction between mind and body). Without the Relic, that doesn't begin to make sense.

I mean, honestly, if you don't have a Silverhand type story what on earth did they do that for???

If the game was intended to be zero to hero (which I think is unlikely but who knows), well, thank God they changed their minds because even by the end of Act 1 Jackie has run out of character traits and there is rather limited scope for any kind of intelligent narrative in that setting.
 
Without that story or a variant of it the entire game doesn't make sense. Almost every quest looks, from different angles, at the question of what is a soul and what is consciousness. A number of quests look at the duality of the soul. There is a band in the game called the Cartesian Duellists (from Cartesian Dualism -- Descartes' view of the distinction between mind and body). Without the Relic, that doesn't begin to make sense.

I mean, honestly, if you don't have a Silverhand type story what on earth did they do that for???

If the game was intended to be zero to hero (which I think is unlikely but who knows), well, thank God they changed their minds because even by the end of Act 1 Jackie has run out of character traits and there is rather limited scope for any kind of intelligent narrative in that setting.

Questions about soul and consciousness, what's real and false, are generic to the cyberpunk scenario, which right from the beginning offered the possibility of your brain being so diddled by technology that you don't know up from down. What are called "Dolls," "Engrams," "Braindances," "cyberpsychosis," etc., etc., all those tech things that open up the possibllity of a distinction between soul and mere memories - all that stuff, those were all topics mooted as early as the early 80s in the genre fiction and the gee-whizz science books that partly inspired it (for example Douglas Hofstadters Gödel, Escher, Bach, a very popular dinner table discussion book in the very early 80s), and put into a neat bundle by the developer of the tabletop system.

The game does handle that side of things well - the story "brings it home" in a realistic way - but it's not some special topic that only this particular game, as part of the cyberpunk genre, broaches.

And again, if the game was not intended as "zero to hero", then they wasted a whole lot of time and effort in building a setting for precisely that.

As I say, the compromise resolution may be that they had intended something like this story - but for the endgame, for the resolution to the story of the character you'd built up in the traditional RPG fashion. As it is, V has no story (unless you do the RPG content, which then makes a mockery of the urgency of the MQ), and without that, without V having a personality that you as the player care about because you've built it up in your mind through playing him and living with him, there's no actual dilemma between V and Johnny, so the story has little bite and it is pretty much just Johnny's story.
 
Last edited:
Questions about soul and consciousness, what's real and false, are generic to the cyberpunk scenario, which right from the beginning offered the possibility of your brain being so diddled by technology that you don't know up from down. What are called "Dolls," "Engrams," "Braindances," etc., etc., those were all topics mooted as early as the early 80s in the genre fiction, and put into a neat bundle by the developer of the tabletop system.

The game does handle that side of things well - the story "brings it home" in a realistic way - but it's not some special topic that only this particular game, as part of the cyberpunk genre, broaches.
I'm aware it's not the first narrative work to do that. But it is made central to the game. It lives or dies by the central story and would just be a sweet nothing in what you appear to envisage as the, er, "original" version, which sounds like a sandbox.

Act 1 presents a generic game without any interesting story goals that it looks almost certain they wanted to use as a bait and switch to something more thoughtful rather than continuing in the Bethesda style of vacuous player wish fulfilment. As I say, if it was the other way round I'm amazed they bothered designing the rest the way they did but thank god they reversed course.
 
I'm aware it's not the first narrative work to do that. But it is made central to the game. It lives or dies by the central story and would just be a sweet nothing in what you appear to envisage as the, er, "original" version, which sounds like a sandbox.

Act 1 presents a generic game without any interesting story goals that it looks almost certain they wanted to use as a bait and switch to something more thoughtful rather than continuing in the Bethesda style of vacuous player wish fulfilment. As I say, if it was the other way round I'm amazed they bothered designing the rest the way they did but thank god they reversed course.

Unless you think the promise of the richest, most complex CRPG to date was a "sweet nothing" then you're just expressing a tautology: yes, "the story" lives or dies with "the story." Big whoop. But the game wasn't supposed to be just "a story." It was supposed to be a massive RPG with stories. And there are plenty of very interesting stories in the game - and unresolved ones at that, as per the OP - enough to show that "the story" wasn't supposed to be the be all and end all of the game, even in story terms. Most of the stories in the quests do, in fact, as you say yourself, explore similar and ancillary topics, and a lot of the horror in the story comes from those themes in those stories, not just in "the story."

if you don't like RPGs and prefer "action-adventure" games (which is now what it's officially called), fair enough. As I said, you can go through "the story" in like 20-30 hours and be done with it. Fine. But a lot of the bad feeling around the game comes from the "bait and switch" - we were promised something that should take more like 100 hours to complete, and "the story" could have been, and should have been, nested in that thing, that roleplaying game.
 
Unless you think the promise of the richest, most complex CRPG to date was a "sweet nothing" then you're just expressing a tautology: yes, "the story" lives or dies with "the story." Big whoop. But the game wasn't supposed to be just "a story." It was supposed to be a massive RPG with stories. And there are plenty of very interesting stories in the game - and unresolved ones at that, as per the OP - enough to show that "the story" wasn't supposed to be the be all and end all of the game, even in story terms. Most of the stories in the quests do, in fact, as you say yourself, explore similar and ancillary topics, and a lot of the horror in the story comes from those themes in those stories, not just in "the story."

if you don't like RPGs and prefer "action-adventure" games (which is now what it's officially called), fair enough. As I said, you can go through "the story" in like 20-30 hours and be done with it. Fine. But a lot of the bad feeling around the game comes from the "bait and switch" - we were promised something that should take more like 100 hours to complete, and "the story" could have been, and should have been, nested in that thing, that roleplaying game.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Keanu Reeves and everything to do with your (rather rigid, let's be frank) personal preference in and expectations of games.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom