WAAAAAAY MORE CONTENT THAN THEY LET ON... For example...

[gurugeorge]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Keanu Reeves and everything to do with your (rather rigid, let's be frank) personal preference in and expectations of games.

None of what I'm saying has anything to do with Keanu Reeves. I don't have any particular grudge against him, and I don't hate the Silverhand character. It's an easy cop-out for fanbois of the game to say, "Oh you just hete Keanu." Maybe that's true in some cases, but it's not the main problem I think most people who have a problem with the game have.

My "personal preference" happens to be what the game was advertized as for the bulk of its PR/marketing existence. And it's the same for most hard critics of the game. As my interlocutor said (his words, not mine) it was a "bait and switch."

 

[northwold]

None of what I'm saying has anything to do with Keanu Reeves. I don't have any particular grudge against him, and I don't hate the Silverhand character. It's an easy cop-out for fanbois of the game to say, "Oh you just hete Keanu." Maybe that's true in some cases, but it's not the main problem I think most people who have a problem with the game have.

My "personal preference" happens to be what the game was advertized as for the bulk of its PR/marketing existence. And it's the same for most hard critics of the game. As my interlocutor said (his words, not mine) it was a "bait and switch."

Our discussion is based on your comment:

"It's pretty clear that they had to put a lot of content on hold to shoehorn the Keanu story in and get the game finished in time."

And what followed.

Your interlocutor was me.

 

[gurugeorge]

Our discussion is based on your comment:

"It's pretty clear that they had to put a lot of content on hold to shoehorn the Keanu story in and get the game finished in time."

And what followed.

Your interlocutor was me.

I don't know where you get the idea that I have a problem with "Keanu Reeves" from that. It's just a casual identification of the story.

Sorry, I just assumed it was someone else because the tone had suddenly gotten rather snippy

 

[OnyxCore]

It's interesting to note that back in Dec last year, when this discussion regarding the intent of the game, and the fact that the sheer scale and detail of the city pointed at a game that was meant to be far more than a backdrop for the V/Silverhand story (even allowing for the side quests), and clearly as a stage for a huge RPG, which was what was originally promised, there was a lot of support for that sentiment and agreement on that matter.

Interestingly, a lot of the people that expressed those views haven't posted since Jan/Feb, so they've obviously moved on.

It's one of those things though, and depends on your expectations mainly.

A friend of mine bought the game on Xbox a couple of months back and was happy with it, and couldn't understand the dislike that she'd heard rumors about. That said, because she'd avoided the marketing and hype, she knew nothing of the background of the game, what it was originally intended to be, or about any of the cut content. And because of that she was perfectly happy with it. No expectations.

Apart from mentioning some cut content, which she agreed would have been nice, I've avoided colouring her impression of it. If she's happy with it, that's good.

I kind of wish I could be in that position....

 

[Muddpitt]

I didn't follow any of the hype or marketing as well. That doesn't justify the cut content, exaggerated features, [...]. I think it's a good game for sure, but the idea that because people who didn't follow the hype were surprised and liked the game so all is okay is not a good way for developers to design their games going forward.

 

[Guest 3847602]

enough to show that "the story" wasn't supposed to be the be all and end all of the game, even in story terms.

“Storytelling is hugely important to us as a studio,” he says. “We want to tell stories that resonate with people on an emotional level and ask important questions. So there will be a lot of that in the actual game. It’s an important part of the genre.”
Pietras adds that everything starts with story at CDPR, and that every department, from quest design to cinematic animation, has an intimate working relationship with the writers.
https://www.pcgamer.com/story-comes-first-in-the-making-of-cyberpunk-2077/

It's CDPR's game and yeah, story comes first as always and they didn't hide this fact from anyone, even in 2018.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I'm also surprise that many still mention "cut contents". So maybe some poeple have follow the hype, but only what they wanted to hear and have ignored totally the CDPR annoucenments where they said that these functionalities won't be in the game anymore (and way before the release).
Like wall running (or possibility to buy apartments, customize cars...), so yeah, that was removed, but announced like that more than a year before the release (during the game development, so not really "cut content", but put aside for various reasons... ).

 

[OnyxCore]

If you advertise that certain elements will be in a game, whether that be by textual or visual marketing, and then remove that content, whatever the reason, that constitutes 'cut content'. It's different if they have removed elements from the game that have never been advertised or shown as being included for ongoing design reasons. No, that isn't. But if you tell people about it, and then remove it, it is....

I don't see what the problem is in accepting that. It's just a simple statement of fact.

 

[northwold]

If you advertise that certain elements will be in a game, whether that be by textual or visual marketing, and then remove that content, whatever the reason, that that constitutes 'cut content'. It's different if they have removed elements from the game that have never been advertised or shown as being included for ongoing design reasons. No, that isn't. But if you tell people about it, and then remove it, it is....

I don't see what the problem is in accepting that. It's just a simple statement of fact.

Speaking more generally a lot of the problem with people talking about "cut content" is that it is content they imagine without any evidence was cut.

So you get all these silly discussions about how because Keanu Reeves arrived some kind of major story content was ripped out. There is no evidence that happened.

Likewise people point to the Jackie montage as if it "must" have been intended as playable footage. I doubt it, unless they were intending to remake GTA (and why would they do that), because it has nothing to do with the intellectual subject matter of the game and would delay the story while prolonging time with a character who has been designed to be two dimensionally likable and disposable, not a longlived story companion.

Jackie has no goals beyond getting rich, getting famous and getting Misty. It might work for a Michael Bay movie but it doesn't work for a game premised on exploring the nature of the soul. He can only forward that concept by dying. Indeed, the only evidence we have that anything different was intended for Jackie was an interview (or livestream i can't remember) observation that Jackie was originally conceived as an a***hole.

 

[OnyxCore]

Likewise people point to the Jackie montage as if it "must" have been intended as playable footage. I doubt it, unless they were intending to remake GTA (and why would they do that), because it has nothing to do with the intellectual subject matter of the game and would delay the story while prolonging time with a character who has been designed to be two dimensionally likable and disposable, not a longlived story companion.

Jackie has no goals beyond getting rich, getting famous and getting Misty. It might work for a Michael Bay movie but it doesn't work for a game premised on exploring the nature of the soul. He can only forward that concept by dying.

I certainly don't remember anything about the six months with Jackie originally being part of the game (unless someone can show me otherwise).

So, on that basis, yes, agreed. That ain't cut content.

 

[Guest 3847602]

I don't see what the problem is in accepting that. It's just a simple statement of fact.

Nobody denies that cut content exists. CDPR warned people long ago that some content they've shown is very likely to be cut or altered by the time the game comes out. The problem is that to many people cut content = lies, deception and false advertising. That's simply not true because they've told the public about most important features that were cut.
The other thing is that it's quite common to call "cut content" every single thing that anyone fantasized about (TPP, flying cars, buying and watching BDs for fun, joining gangs, bribing cops, 3 separate storylines for each lifepath, etc...). Content that CDPR never mentioned or even some features that were explicitly dismissed.

 

[Draconifors]

This is turning into yet another "cut content" thread -- which is not the topic here. So, please get back on topic.

 

[OnyxCore]

Well, it was originally billed as an RPG when first announced. So, for the majority of the decidedly on and off 'development', that was what a lot of people were expecting. It's not too surprising that it would cause a degree of disappointment when they changed tack.

 

[gurugeorge]

Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't advertised for years. It's been revealed in 2012, but marketing campaign only began at E3 2018. Among the first things revealed about the game was:
- protagonist's name being V
- V being a 22 year old mercenary
So, the game was never presented as "be anything, do anything" type of RPG. I haven't heard them talking about CRPG (I associate this term with traditional, isometric, turn-based RPGs and it was clear all along that Cyberpunk 2077 won't be like that).

Here's the 20108 video. What's being spoken of is an RPG where you can fully customize your character by choosing backstory (that was supposed to open up different options in the game, etc.). That same idea is carried on through the rest of the hype videos, and it's what most people who were watching the hype expected (for example even by the middle of 2020, RPS was expecting - in a typical example of the journalistic hype around the game - that the "lifepaths" would actually mean something and make a difference to gameplay, just as advertized in that 2018 video).

I think at one time early on even "Rockerboy" was supposed to have been a lifepath. Although of course one doesn't hold it against them that it was cut out, it just shows that their intentions had at one time been very much in the vein of the P&P property they'd bought and were inspired by, and they certainly never gave any hints that they'd retreated in ambition over the years to mere "action-adventure".

And the clincher is that they did build an open world with fixers, gigs, etc., that are now almost totally irrelevant to the gameplay and story we have now (most of the fixers and their gigs could be cut out and the V/Johnny story be pretty much as it is). Again, this shows that the ambition was for an RPG proper for a good chunk of the game's development - otherwise making all those assets would have been a complete waste of time.

 

[Guest 3847602]

RPS was expecting - in a typical example of the journalistic hype around the game - that the "lifepaths" would actually mean something and make a difference to gameplay

Well, that's on RPS, not CDPR. As you said, pure speculation and clickbait.

just as advertized in that 2018 video

What pre-lifepaths system (multi-choice backstory from 2018 demo) was supposed to represent in game was never clear. It could have been something similar to pre-service history in Mass Effect 1, which would have made it even less impactful than lifepaths.

 

[gurugeorge]

Well, that's on RPS, not CDPR. As you said, pure speculation and clickbait.

What pre-lifepaths system (multi-choice backstory from 2018 demo) was supposed to represent in game was never clear. It could have been something similar to pre-service history in Mass Effect 1, which would have made it even less impactful than lifepaths.

The point is to offer that speculation and clickbait as an example of the general opinion at the time - what the playerbase was expecting based on CDPR's hype. It's certainly the impression I'd gotten from the hype videos and snippets of developer talk.

As to the lifepaths - I'm sorry, you can't get away from the implication given in that video that they were supposed to be impactful in the story down the line, they were supposed to give you a different experience in playing the game (part of the C&C aspect). Again, that's the impression everyone had gotten, and that's obviously the impression CDPR had intended to foster.

 

[Draconifors]

Enough with the off-topic. Since you refuse to stay on topic the thread gets closed.