Was CP too ambitious?

[Yllana_Ardais]

And I could easily imagine how Ubisoft, could create a open world RPG game, using the same mechanics as in AC to really create one massive blockbuster of an RPG. Simply combining a lot of the features from there last 3 AC games into one. Like ship combat, base building, conquering land, raids or massive battles, more like a open world RPG sandbox game, they seem to have all the experience from what I can see, to actually pull off something like that.

I don't know, I always get bored after some time by the AC games, because while there are many different features, they often also feel kind of...uninspired. As Yahtzee has put it these games feature "a lot of things that are there, but not really connected." Sometimes they add features where you feel they have put a bit more passion or thought into, like for example the fliyting in Valhalla, but to me, many of the systems and features don't really enhance the game or mesh all that well with the story (for example the base building or the alliances - they are very shallow).

I think that there has to be some sort of middle ground. CP doesn't feature enough of these elements that are considered action game/RPG staples nowadays and Ubisoft just throws them all in a blender until it all feels the same.

 

[Mobster100]

I don't know, I always get bored after some time by the AC games, because while there are many different features, they often also feel kind of...uninspired. As Yahtzee has put it these games feature "a lot of things that are there, but not really connected." Sometimes they add features where you feel they have put a bit more passion or thought into, like for example the fliyting in Valhalla, but to me, many of the systems and features don't really enhance the game or mesh all that well with the story (for example the base building or the alliances - they are very shallow).

I think that there has to be some sort of middle ground. CP doesn't feature enough of these elements that are considered action game/RPG staples nowadays and Ubisoft just throws them all in a blender until it all feels the same.

I agree, that these things can be improved. I love that Orlog game that is really fun, most of the others as you say are minor features. Flyting does increase your charisma, which they say give you more options in dialogs, I haven't noticed that to much and also why I would like the story to be more branching and with consequences on a greater scale, at least from what I have currently experience there doesn't seem to be a lot of that.

My point is not that AC is perfect as it is now, but more that one could imagine how they could take a lot of these features from their last games and develop them further into something more complexed and combine them all into one experience. The "basic" foundation seem to be there I think.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But NC is not really that big, when it comes to these things.

When you said that, it's not really "size" related ?
Because Night City (+Badlands) is quite massive. It seem "not really" 'cause "fast" vehicles, but I you walk from oil field to the destroyed bridge (where you go with Mitch) or to the southern border, it's gonna take you a long time, that's for sure

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

This is not unique for TW3 or CP. Its an issue for all open world games. They need to fill the world with stuff and random camp of enemies is one of those. But I don't think its as huge a problem in games like TW3 and AC, because the world map is so big and you have areas between cities where it make sense for enemies to live. But NC is not really that big, when it comes to these things. Where you in AC or TW3, can have old castle ruins, cave systems etc. where bandits or monsters can hide, while still being believable that they live these places.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all in CP, because a lot of places it works well, like warehouses, military camps etc. that if the player goes here they will be attacked.

I think CDPR should maybe have approached CP in a different way, when it comes to these monster camps, where they are just random crimes in progress or gang members standing random spots and attacking you if you get to close. Maybe they should have made them more like minor quest events such as they are in AC, which would be small things, where the player could interact with them, some simply helping them, others could end in a fight, them trying to rob the player etc. At least to me, they quickly become like camps you just farm like in an MMORPG, no real background to why they are there, just a camp of XP and gear to loot. Maybe just to sum it up, these encounters are not very creative


I agree with you on some of this. I do think that Ubisoft and Rockstar have more experience in creating these open world games than CDPR have. And probably also have more resources.

But I don't agree with their games being less ambitious than CDPRs game. But they don't marketing a lot of the stuff in their games as being completely unique and ground breaking. Because im currently playing AC: Valhalla and even though its not perfect, a lot of work went into this game and the amount of things you can do here.

You have a massive world which is unique as you travel around it. You can ride horses, shoot from them, with auto travelling around the map, you have boats, you have some city building, you can fish, hunt, play games. You can customize your character, unique finishing moves for all the weapons, you can upgrade them both in quality and with runes. You have that crow you can fly around with. And the list goes on. It is not some cheap none feature rich thing put together.

But again, they didn't make a huge deal out of a lot of these things as CDPR did. I would say in AC, if they made it, so you could customize your character a bit more, like body shape etc. and added a lot more branching stories and character development that the player was in charge of, it would be a damn good game to be honest. And I could easily imagine how Ubisoft, could create an open world RPG game, using the same mechanics as in AC to really create one massive new IP blockbuster of a RPG. Simply combining a lot of the features from their last 3 AC games into one. Like ship combat, base building, conquering land, raids or massive battles, more like an open world RPG sandbox game, they seem to have all the experience from what I can see, to actually pull off something like that.

it actually makes tons of sense in NC, a gang related city, and it happens often irl. There are certain corners where thugs hang out, even while a block away is a rich people apt.

And these people aren't as simple as you assume. A ganger in NC doesn't attack V for no reason, they attack V for being too close to them for too long, with a slight modification based on the gangs perception of V. Depending where V is they may be more tolerant of Vs presence. Its also not accurate to say they leave people alone. You see them robbing or beating people up.

and this is similar to actual experience, thugs don't simply attack everyone who walks by. They know some people, they size people up, they also respond to instinctual threat level. They are people who live and hang around an area, 1000s of people pass them every day, most of them nothing happens.

So why is it that V only gets to hang around them for 5-10 seconds, modified by how stealthy V is before sparking drama? Because they either know V is a merc, or V's kiroshi eyes make him show up as a hidden face. They therefore are on guard, and not comfortable with you staring at them to long or standing close to them too long. (also normal people don't do this) This is very much like real big city gang/thug reactions. Looking at someone too long or the wrong way will start a confrontation. People who live in these environments know not to stare and generally pass by these groups without engaging. The ones who do, are known and accepted by those groups.

As some one who has lived in these types of environments, that behavior pattern is spot on. Yeah, there are some seams, you never see the beginning of an assault, and the assault stays there forever until you do it. But this is a game, the assaults are content, with mini stories and they don't want the player to be able to miss it because they didnt walk down the street. the repeatable blotter quests are minimal and they didnt want to invest heavily into unscripted content. They prize themselves on hand crafted content over generated content, this is literally one of their marketing points.


The big deal that people misunderstood, is that CP was designed in a fundamentally different way/idea than a game like gtaV. GtaV was trying to develop an automated city with emergent gameplay. CP was trying to create a crafted city, that tells a story. Its two totally different concepts. Almost every facet of NC is telling a story. Every gig, assault has a reason its happening, Often connected to other things happening. The graffiti on the walls reference things that happened. The Animals are taking over the pharmacy for a reason. Very little is randomly happening here.

this means the good side is that there is a lot of depth to NC, much to investigate, tons of stories, and everything around you is part of that story. The downside is the game is definitely completable, and very little exists outside of what they wrote/designed.

but this is a design choice for a studio that focuses on story telling.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

This purpose of this thread is not about whether CP lived up to what it set out to be or not, or what they said or didn't. But more from a technical point of view. I watched this video earlier, which covers a lot of issues with the whole thing, from start to finish:

TL;DR

Too ambitious. I dont think its too ambitious, just a huge project that ultimately found itself caught up with reality. Its just wasn't ready just yet, but not for lack of overstretching. Also, the fact that nothing quite like cyberpunk (this vision) has existed just yet is probably also something to think about. Cyberpunk tries to create a vision of a world that we haven't ever seen before as a truly playable experience, and I can definately understand it may have been a project that proved much more than what it may have looked like nearly a decade ago.

 

[kaotkbliss]

I just read an article about fallout 76, I've never played the game, nor watched any videos for it so I can't say how good/bad it is now and that's not the point anyway. The point is: the article said the launch of the game was pretty disastrous because the game was launched pretty bare bones (and bugs). Much of the game seemed missing (sound familiar?) Over time though, they've added all that missing content. That gives me hope that CP 2077 can do the same.

 

[lyin321]

I just read an article about fallout 76, I've never played the game, nor watched any videos for it so I can't say how good/bad it is now and that's not the point anyway. The point is: the article said the launch of the game was pretty disastrous because the game was launched pretty bare bones (and bugs). Much of the game seemed missing (sound familiar?) Over time though, they've added all that missing content. That gives me hope that CP 2077 can do the same.

No. As far as I know (didn't play it when it came out), fallout 76 had no npc, and barely any quests. Think shards....interesting addition, but can't be the main thing. So I imagine 'barebones' would be the world, with mechanics (base building etc), but mostly empty. I remember something about them making the world and giving the tools to players to populate it and make it interesting, but that didn't work out. Why the addition of npc with some expansion was such a big thing. Again I haven't played it when it came out so might be wrong or not entirely correct.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I just read an article about fallout 76, I've never played the game, nor watched any videos for it so I can't say how good/bad it is now and that's not the point anyway. The point is: the article said the launch of the game was pretty disastrous because the game was launched pretty bare bones (and bugs). Much of the game seemed missing (sound familiar?) Over time though, they've added all that missing content. That gives me hope that CP 2077 can do the same.

I play F76 day-one and not since day-one (yep, one day of playing).
Anyway, for a comparaison, you take Cyberpunk, you remove all the quests related NPCs (Judy/Rogue/River/Kerry/Panam/Johnny/Jackie and all the others) and make the whole story only through holobands. Example, you go to AfterLife, take Rogue's Holoband, then go to meet the Panam's holoband, then go take Aldecaldos holoband, kill few wraiths... and finally listen Hellman's holoband at the Sunset Motel... Seem great, isn't it ?

If you think Cyberpunk is empty, it's nothing compared to F76...

 

[Notserious80]

I just read an article about fallout 76, I've never played the game, nor watched any videos for it so I can't say how good/bad it is now and that's not the point anyway. The point is: the article said the launch of the game was pretty disastrous because the game was launched pretty bare bones (and bugs). Much of the game seemed missing (sound familiar?) Over time though, they've added all that missing content. That gives me hope that CP 2077 can do the same.

While i do agree that it can be done, it most likely wont. Fallout 76 is a online game with a volentary subscription fee (premium private servers and other stuff.) also has a ingame shop that can make the company money and so on so its hard to compare with Cp2077. I think they will try too fix as much bugs/preformance as they can and then dlcs and possibly make an online mode that can make them money but... it still wont be the game i wanted.

Recently started playing again and i dont know. its just so disapointing. The gameplay is like most shooters from level 1 too 50 pretty much. theres nothing unique with the gunplay at all (perhaps smart wepons but its just like auto aim). My character feels the same from level 1 too max pretty much. yes i do more dmg but theres nothing like spells too learn or that evolves. Melee combat feels clunky and almost impossible too level athletics, swords are kinda fun but generaly evolves too hide behind cover wait for pause in ppl shooting at you and rush them. Blocking is an issue with both aswell, sword vs bullet?

Stealth is pretty op and hacking is similar too gunplay (some of the ultimate hacks can be pretty fun tho). Tech feels relegated too being just a crafting tree that i always take and always specc the same since its pretty much the only way too get any nice sets that can be nice looking and good(not too mention the legendary armorsets and so on). Alot of talents or bonuses dont even work at all. Then theres small stuff that just gets annoying, like the same choke/necksnap every stealth takedown. No weapon takedowns. bad AI (both npc and enemys) Even with 20 body i must find a door/window/hatch too rip open, i should be able too go trough that shabby wall pretty much.

 

[cartlidge]

having played fallout 76 a few months after release when many of the initial bugs were fixed

The scrap you needed to make ammo for instance was limited, I used to server hop until I found an area which was not looted to loot. the game stopped becoming a game and a resource hunt with zero immersion pretty quickly. Now they offer a monthly paid service to adventure on your own world (people paying monthly to play a single player game)

Bugs, everytime I looted something my game would freeze for a moment that got worse as the character grew (This is what made me stop playing)

blatant cash shop rip offs, they had to reel back on some of their rip offs as they went against EU law (claiming goods were being offered at a discount when they were never on sale for the original price)

$20 for a reskin of power armour, get the hell out of here,

The whole shooting mechanics is as clunky as hell

I expected a dead world, not going to complain about that but there was so few people to talk to except shards, reading and following the story and tales of those who were there before

This is the sort of greed I am pleased that CDPR have stated they will leave to others

 

[Mobster100]

it actually makes tons of sense in NC, a gang related city, and it happens often irl. There are certain corners where thugs hang out, even while a block away is a rich people apt.

And these people aren't as simple as you assume. A ganger in NC doesn't attack V for no reason, they attack V for being too close to them for too long, with a slight modification based on the gangs perception of V. Depending where V is they may be more tolerant of Vs presence. Its also not accurate to say they leave people alone. You see them robbing or beating people up.

Im not against there being these things in NC, its about the presentation of them. That they appear to much as MMO camps rather than some interesting feature, they are just not very fleshed out I think. To me, the enemy camps works when its military camps, gang houses and you have to infiltrate them etc. These mission are fun, just clearly these random camps are not.

CP was trying to create a crafted city, that tells a story.

But I don't think these camps support that idea, exactly because they come with no interesting elements to them. Again, Im not against all these gangs, my issue with all of it, is that they are not very well integrated into the game, like there is close to no interaction with them, which makes them mindless mobs that you just kill. Also why you don't really care which gang members you kill, because it doesn't matter, its not integrated into the game, the fixers doesn't care either. The police doesn't care what they do either, except some scripted events, its like no one cares. You have to create this illusion yourself, because the game doesn't really do a lot to help you in this department.

Compare how effective the meeting with the maelstroms is, how much character is built into them and getting to learn who they are. Besides that quest and the one in the bar, I don't really think you have any interaction with them at all. Which to me is a shame, because these things are what makes CP cool. Its not killing some stationary monster camps.

Then there are the old military guys (Can't remember what they are called) where you do that small game with, and I don't think you ever interact with them again. The voodoo boys are a bit better. I can't remember ever interacting with the tiger claws, maybe I did. But I remember nothing about them. Then you have the animals, you do a little bit with them? (maybe) again, can't remember, if you have any interesting interaction with them, or if you just do that one mission where you can kill the net guy, but then again that it is voodoo boys quest.

At least to me, I didn't walk away from this game, thinking that I really had any memorable interactions with the gangs, besides those two quests, with Maelstrom and Voodoo boys, the rest I know nothing about. And even now, I don't really think they went very deep into either of these two gangs. Given how cool and crazy the Maelstroms are, I think they could have done a much better job here at really mixing them into the game.

Much of the game seemed missing (sound familiar?) Over time though, they've added all that missing content. That gives me hope that CP 2077 can do the same.

I think that is what we are all hoping for. Because the potential in the CP universe is huge.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But I don't think these camps support that idea, exactly because they come with no interesting elements to them. Again, Im not against all these gangs, my issue with all of it, is that they are not very well integrated into the game, like there is close to no interaction with them, which makes them mindless mobs that you just kill. Also why you don't really care which gang members you kill, because it doesn't matter, its not integrated into the game, the fixers doesn't care either. The police doesn't care what they do either, except some scripted events, its like no one cares. You have to create this illusion yourself, because the game doesn't really do a lot to help you in this department.

Compare how effective the meeting with the maelstroms is, how much character is built into them and getting to learn who they are. Besides that quest and the one in the bar, I don't really think you have any interaction with them at all. Which to me is a shame, because these things are what makes CP cool. Its not killing some stationary monster camps.

Then there are the old military guys (Can't remember what they are called) where you do that small game with, and I don't think you ever interact with them again. The voodoo boys are a bit better. I can't remember ever interacting with the tiger claws, maybe I did. But I remember nothing about them. Then you have the animals, you do a little bit with them? (maybe) again, can't remember, if you have any interesting interaction with them, or if you just do that one mission where you can kill the net guy, but then again that it is voodoo boys quest.

At least to me, I didn't walk away from this game, thinking that I really had any memorable interactions with the gangs, besides those two quests, with Maelstrom and Voodoo boys, the rest I know nothing about. And even now, I don't really think they went very deep into either of these two gangs. Given how cool and crazy the Maelstroms are, I think they could have done a much better job here at really mixing them into the game.

In fact, I can understand that seem good to have interactions with gangs, but that will not seem "real" if you could do it.
For example (for me, a french far from gangs...), imagine you pass cross MS-13 dudes in LA, do you really think they will talk (even less "kindly") to you if you are "nobody" and worst, not a MS-13 member ?
For me that's seem impossible
Besides, the "boss" of 6th Street reminds you during the "Stadium Love" quest : "It won't make any difference if I meet you in the street, I wouldn't hesitate. You're with us or against us".

Fixer don't care about gangs 'cause Fixer doesn't care about anyone, except those who pay. Cops, it's a little bit the same
And all the "camps" in Cyberpunk have a story often related to others quests/GIG unlike TW3 or Odyssey (even some unique dialogue linesif you listen them before kill everybody)
Little example :
Shard found it an "Assault in progress" (Rancho Coronado) - Archived Conversation: Nasim Perlman and Tucker Albach
Related GIG (The Glen) - Gig: Eye for an Eye
Enemies also have unique dialogue lines on phone and between them, if you're not directly detected obviously.

 

[seomid]

Depends. Too ambitions when it comes to estimated development time? Definitely. See CDPR has a history of day one issues with their releases. One could argue they know they won't make it in time, especially since they basically never did. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
I don't view CDPR as your average game studio. They don't develop games, they develop ways of developing a game. They are pretty good at optimizing their workflows and the initial release date was probably seen as doable at some point.

Personally i don't think a game can be too ambitious.
The entirety of the gaming industry is built on innovation. Ambition and innovation go hand in hand, and i think settling for the boundaries of your skill set is a no go. However one has to be honest with themselves when it comes to accepting own mistakes and building upon them. It can't be smart to realize one had an impossible to achieve deadline and set another one of those for themselves. Their target release date was too ambitious and they were naive to think they can pull it off with 5 additional months. See right now 15 months have passed since the initial release date. The game is nowhere near finished, and i won't believe, no matter how many arguments you throw at me, that they expected to achieve something within 5 months, that they didn't achieve in 13. There are time miscalculations, and there are simply overly optimistic expectations. I won't say they lied regarding the release date. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They just happened to be off by like half of the expected development time. Shit happens.
Now whether they were unlucky, or dishonest will come out with the Witcher 4 and it's roll out state. If they happen to misjudge everything again, i think it will be fair to say whoever is responsible for those judgements, maaaaybe should take a break from their job. But time will show.
However dear CDPR development team; don't ever become less ambitious. Be more realistic about the resources you need, but never stop striving greatness. The Witcher 3 is a proof there aren't any too ambitious projects.

 

[Mobster100]

In fact, I can understand that seem good to have interactions with gangs, but that will not seem "real" if you could do it.
For example (for me, a french far from gangs...), imagine you pass cross MS-13 dudes in LA, do you really think they will talk (even less "kindly") to you if you are "nobody" and worst, not a MS-13 member ?

Well you do actually deal with some of the gangs in the game, such as the Maelstroms and the voodoo boys, and they seem interested in doing business. Also I don't see the point in comparing to real life. In that case, we could rip CP and pretty much any game to threads for being unrealistic

Fixer don't care about gangs 'cause Fixer doesn't care about anyone, except those who pay. Cops, it's a little bit the same

Honestly I think these are just excuses. If everything you said is true, there wouldn't be basis for a game at all, because nothing would be possible. Even the game doesn't support what you are saying. Dexter is dealing with the Maelstroms, but got screwed. Which is why he send in V and Jackie to solve it. So clearly he have an agenda and occasionally find uses in dealing with the gangs. Sure, he might not cry when he figures out that Royce is dead, but he probably see them as an asset just as a merc is. Clearly the gangs also knows about the fixers and deal with them, so there seem to be some sort of relationship between them when it comes to business. So saying that its completely impossible for V to deal with the gangs, just doesn't make sense I think.

And again seems to just be an excuse on behalf of CDPR to defend why there is no interaction in the game worth mentioning.

Look this is just my personal opinion in regards to how I think the game would be more interesting, so nothing wrong, if people prefer monster camps, I just don't find it to be very interesting or a creative use of the gangs.

 

[northwold]

I think that there's a reason that it keeps getting brought up, though. The Six Month Montage is right after the first "introduction." The Life Paths were only thirty minutes and then we're seeing a serious jump in time. This leaves it more disjointed and confusing in where your character is, what they're doing, and how their relationships have evolved than if they'd just begun the game with Jackie and V sitting in the car waiting to take down the Scavengers. You could have left it to the imagination and it probably would have worked better.

The things you do see are also interesting in their own right. You go to live with Jackie in Jackie's basement and meet his mom. You do a couple of minor missions. Presumably you do a job for the Padre and that allows you to buy your own apartment. That could have been a couple of hours of gametime that would have made you feel like you were moving up the criminal world.

Given how short the main questline was, I don't think the montage was a great idea. Either make it playable or just ditch it and make a tighter game.

I think some of the life path intros were mishandled, certainly. With nomad Jackie feels right, to me. With corpo he does not because he never gets a full arc from introduction to, er, new pastures.

PS the correct balance between setup and payoff tends to attract a lot of debate in many narrative works. Famously, Dumas's Count of Monte Cristo in its original draft began with the hero already the Count of Monte Cristo (effectively, a billionaire playboy). It was Dumas's assistant who suggested (and probably wrote) the famous passages of the book that precede that transformation, but all of those passages focus on two things that are absolutely central to the rest of the book: why does the Count end up wanting revenge, and why does he end up absurdly rich.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Honestly I think these are just excuses. If everything you said is true, there wouldn't be basis for a game at all, because nothing would be possible. Even the game doesn't support what you are saying. Dexter is dealing with the Maelstroms, but got screwed. Which is why he send in V and Jackie to solve it. So clearly he have an agenda and occasionally find uses in dealing with the gangs. Sure, he might not cry when he figures out that Royce is dead, but he probably see them as an asset just as a merc is. Clearly the gangs also knows about the fixers and deal with them, so there seem to be some sort of relationship between them when it comes to business. So saying that its completely impossible for V to deal with the gangs, just doesn't make sense I think.

And again seems to just be an excuse on behalf of CDPR to defend why there is no interaction in the game worth mentioning.

Look this is just my personal opinion in regards to how I think the game would be more interesting, so nothing wrong, if people prefer monster camps, I just don't find it to be very interesting or a creative use of the gangs.

Like I said, only those who paid for a job or for deal with them
Padre sent you kill Valentinos (including a "boss", Gustavo Orta) or Wakako sent you kill Tygers. And if you said to Dex that you have take the "flathead" by force (so you have killed everybody), he said you that you have "balls". He really don't care about them, he just want the bot by anyway.
So if V have to interact with gangs, it could be only for business and it will probably turn badly (like with scav and Aldecaldos).

 

[Restlessdingo32]

This is not unique for TW3 or CP. Its an issue for all open world games. They need to fill the world with stuff and random camp of enemies is one of those. But I don't think its as huge a problem in games like TW3 and AC, because the world map is so big and you have areas between cities where it make sense for enemies to live. But NC is not really that big, when it comes to these things. Where you in AC or TW3, can have old castle ruins, cave systems etc. where bandits or monsters can hide, while still being believable that they live these places.

They do, yes. Sometimes I wonder if some of these very large games wouldn't be better off being a bit smaller in scale though. In the case of CP, a smaller city or overall game scope but with more effort put into the areas where it is focused.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Im not against there being these things in NC, its about the presentation of them. That they appear to much as MMO camps rather than some interesting feature, they are just not very fleshed out I think. To me, the enemy camps works when its military camps, gang houses and you have to infiltrate them etc. These mission are fun, just clearly these random camps are not.


But I don't think these camps support that idea, exactly because they come with no interesting elements to them. Again, Im not against all these gangs, my issue with all of it, is that they are not very well integrated into the game, like there is close to no interaction with them, which makes them mindless mobs that you just kill. Also why you don't really care which gang members you kill, because it doesn't matter, its not integrated into the game, the fixers doesn't care either. The police doesn't care what they do either, except some scripted events, its like no one cares. You have to create this illusion yourself, because the game doesn't really do a lot to help you in this department.

Compare how effective the meeting with the maelstroms is, how much character is built into them and getting to learn who they are. Besides that quest and the one in the bar, I don't really think you have any interaction with them at all. Which to me is a shame, because these things are what makes CP cool. Its not killing some stationary monster camps.

Then there are the old military guys (Can't remember what they are called) where you do that small game with, and I don't think you ever interact with them again. The voodoo boys are a bit better. I can't remember ever interacting with the tiger claws, maybe I did. But I remember nothing about them. Then you have the animals, you do a little bit with them? (maybe) again, can't remember, if you have any interesting interaction with them, or if you just do that one mission where you can kill the net guy, but then again that it is voodoo boys quest.

At least to me, I didn't walk away from this game, thinking that I really had any memorable interactions with the gangs, besides those two quests, with Maelstrom and Voodoo boys, the rest I know nothing about. And even now, I don't really think they went very deep into either of these two gangs. Given how cool and crazy the Maelstroms are, I think they could have done a much better job here at really mixing them into the game.


I think that is what we are all hoping for. Because the potential in the CP universe is huge.

the gangs have interactions, and stories, you are just generally not the focus of their stories. Why should you be anything but kill or ignore? However, if you are doing the assults, and read the shards/emails, you start to see the reasons they are where they are, what is their current primary concerns and goals. The people in the area's also sometimes have an convos that shed light on what life is like there. There is a reason the Animals are exactly where you find them, its not random or outside of the story. The Animals are often employed by others to do specific things, you find out who is paying for what if you read some corpo emails, etc. They also need to control parts of the drug trade related to performance enhancement.

the scavs manipulate people throwing parties to attract people, killing people who they sell drugs/parts to if they owe money, or they feel like it.

if you are talking about the blotter events, those have no text, but they still generally tell the story of the area. Like cops in a shoot out with scavs on the outskirts of Pacifica. Or valentinos in shoot outs with 6 street. (which is background for their rivalry and the Romeo and Juliet underplot going on)

nothing is randomly placed. You see them as monster camps, because you are trained to think of them that way. They are not, nor do they serve the same purpose. MMOs create enemy camps to give you things to kill. This game is not similar, they don't expect you to kill anything that you aren't paid to kill, and even within the ones some one is paying you for, they expect you not to always take the job, or get involved with the random attacks you are seeing.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

This game is not similar, they don't expect you to kill anything that you aren't paid to kill, and even within the ones some one is paying you for, they expect you not to always take the job, or get involved with the random attacks you are seeing.

On this particular point, I'm not going to lie, but when I hear guns, I have to stop and see what happens. Most often I wait to see who wins and I kill the "winners"

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

They do, yes. Sometimes I wonder if some of these very large games wouldn't be better off being a bit smaller in scale though. In the case of CP, a smaller city or overall game scope but with more effort put into the areas where it is focused.

in the case of CP, a smaller area would feel, claustrophobic and not give the different feelings and background of whats going on. Big cities are a bunch of interconnected 'biomes' A new cultural area is 20 minutes away from another.

And to be honest, NC is brimming with stuff. The only part I would say where maybe they needed more content was Pacifica, but its also hard to tell pacifica's story from a mercenaries perspective since they don't trust outsiders, and aren't dominated by fixers, corporations, or police. Everything V can learn about an area is based on this. If they were to expand on this, it would have to involve an npc like judy/panam/misty/jackie who somehow sparks a whole web of content. It would also need to essentially be turned off depending what you do in the main plotline.

Post automatically merged: Jul 19, 2021

On this particular point, I'm not going to lie, but when I hear guns, I have to stop and see what happens. Most often I wait to see who wins and I kill the "winners"

I generally ignore shootouts, I tend to get involved in attacks on civilians, although its sometimes hard to keep them alive.