Wasteland 2

[Suhiira]

Wasteland 2

Although I don't disagree, I'd point out turn-based and RTwP mechanics are just as prey to abuse - that's a function of publishers and developers, not game mechanics. I still have yet to finish X Com or D:OS, for example, and doubt I'll replay either.

Don't recall saying anything about abuse, just observing that FPS games tend to be more of a cash cow then RPGs.
X Com's ending wasn't quite what I expected, but it was fitting.
I've barely started D:OS ... it's a game I'll play when I'm ortherwise bored since I don't care much for the loot system (totally random).

That said, isn't Wasteland 2 a joy? Shooting and all? Makes me want to go back and play Shadowrun some more as well. Something so satisfying to firing off volleys from your team and watching the swarming enemy come apart in blood balloons.

I JUST arrived at the Valley of the Titan and to this point I've used very little ammo. I have brawler/rifle, blunt/rifle, blunt/sniper, and edged/sniper on my main Rangers. Rose (who's been learning to use a rifle since I first got her and is now maxed out in it), Scotchmo (who's also learning rifle since he's always in the rear of the party and the damn shotgun tends to do more damage to me then them due to it's cone), and Pizepi (who's been learning pistol as a back-up to her energy weapon).
Since most of the NPCs tend to be even slower then my characters (in terms of initiative) they don't use much ammo even tho they don't have melee weapons skills.
Probably my biggest complaint about Wasteland 2 is the AI badguys ALWAYS have initiative over your Rangers.

 

[Sardukhar]

Wasteland 2

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Probably my biggest complaint about Wasteland 2 is the AI badguys ALWAYS have initiative over your Rangers.

Get your combat initiative over 13? 14? Whatever my lead guy has. He always goes first. And then he goes again later. Wheee.

Edit: Heh, I made it look like Suzy started a poll! GodDAMN I'm clever.

 

[227]

I'll take the murder weasels, please.

The game isn't fun. Yes, it's old-school. Yes, it has a lot of appreciated humor and charm. That doesn't change the fact that it's tedious to play. Between weapon jamming, the constant scarcity of ammo, the heavy focus on combat that more or less screws you over if you spend your points on non-combat skills (my Smart Ass-invested character has had maybe 3 opportunities for dialogue in the several hours I've played), and a litany of miscellaneous issues, I can't bring myself to like the game. It's a good attempt, but it falls far short of the classics it's trying to emulate.

Blender ahoy.

 

[Suhiira]

Edit: Heh, I made it look like Suzy started a poll! GodDAMN I'm clever.

Evil CaNNuck !

 

[Suhiira]

The game isn't fun. Yes, it's old-school. Yes, it has a lot of appreciated humor and charm. That doesn't change the fact that it's tedious to play. Between weapon jamming, the constant scarcity of ammo, the heavy focus on combat that more or less screws you over if you spend your points on non-combat skills (my Smart Ass-invested character has had maybe 3 opportunities for dialogue in the several hours I've played), and a litany of miscellaneous issues, I can't bring myself to like the game. It's a good attempt, but it falls far short of the classics it's trying to emulate.

But those issues are exactly what make the game fun.
Unlike "modern" games you can't rely on your weapons, have virtually unlimited ammo (Hint: Use melee, I do whenever possible and I have ammo coming out my ears), "do it all" in terms of skills. Yeah, some save scumming is virtually essential (you WILL die) but it's rather assumed players will do that, one of the reasons combat can be so difficult.
I don't think it's trying to emulate anything so much as be a somewhat modernized version of Wasteland 1. No, there's no deep "character angst" storyline, your just a bunch of puds that happen to be in the wrong place at the right time and get to "save the world".

 

[Sardukhar]

Of course you ranked Smart Ass up. Of course you did.

I hope there's more - so far my Kiss Ass ranked character has seen the most dialogue use.

I do save scum...for loot! But only if it was, say, a high-tech secured vault protecting...some ammo and a shirt. Yeah.

I've reloaded because Rose died, since she was bleeding out in real time and I couldn't click fast enough. And you people say FPS are a test of reflexes! Ha!

I've reloaded because I got too close to the death bunnies and combat started and they rushed me and wiped my party. Only wipe to date though.

There is a heavy focus on combat. You're totally right about that. Your team are Desert Rangers, though - a lot of combat in Wasteland 2 is part of the series. It's not like you're playing a diplomatic party - you're Texas Ranger of the Apocalypse.

Fuck weapon jamming. Seriously. It's not fun. It happens way too often - as well as my Hand to Hand guy missing with 70% all the time. Bug?

Still lots of fun, though. I was you, I might rebuild your party for combat. There is already an editor out there. Just toss a couple more points into Auto Rifle and set one guy as a Sniper, you should be fine.

 

[227]

(Hint: Use melee, I do whenever possible and I have ammo coming out my ears), "do it all" in terms of skills.

I think the problem with being a jack-of-all-trades is that you end up facing a high chance of critical failure when you do just about anything. Having to reload over and over again because I fractured a leg bone/broke a lock/destroyed a well isn't fun. Then again, I underestimated how important intelligence would be, so my characters only get 2 skill points per level.

And melee isn't a very good idea when you go to the AG center first because of how pretty much everything there explodes. My blunt weapon guy had to branch out into energy weapons just to avoid being dead weight.

Of course you ranked Smart Ass up. Of course you did.

I CAN'T CHANGE WHO I AM. On the other hand, I'm playing through the game as a non-jerk, which thus far has proved the adage that nice guys finish last. There's so much you miss out on when your antiquated scruples prevent you from shooting traders in the face.

There is already an editor out there. Just toss a couple more points into Auto Rifle and set one guy as a Sniper, you should be fine.

Thanks, wasn't aware of the editor. Definitely going to go that route, because my talky character and my door-kicker-opener are worthless in combat.

 

[Suhiira]

I think the problem with being a jack-of-all-trades is that you end up facing a high chance of critical failure when you do just about anything. Having to reload over and over again because I fractured a leg bone/broke a lock/destroyed a well isn't fun. Then again, I underestimated how important intelligence would be, so my characters only get 2 skill points per level.

And melee isn't a very good idea when you go to the AG center first because of how pretty much everything there explodes. My blunt weapon guy had to branch out into energy weapons just to avoid being dead weight.

Maybe restart with an intelligence of 4 (3 skill points/level).
And yeah, at the Ag Center melee IS NOT an option vs the stuff that explodes. EVERYONE ganged up on the pod-people as #1 priority, then I had one character who's main job was shooting those damn stationary pods. Later in the game you don't run into much that explodes ... instead they throw TNT and grenades. The Ag Center is very, VERY tough.

 

[z0rex]

Jokes on you! I know what I did

 

[227]

... instead they throw TNT and grenades. The Ag Center is very, VERY tough.

Yeah, I just dealt with the mad monks. There were so many dirty grenades and suicide bombers to contend with, and killing my monk guide to stay on Diamondback's good side meant having to deal with Raider lobbers who would have left me alone otherwise.

I found a weird glitch, though. When I collected enough radioactive goop (or whatever) to gain entry, I was told that my Raider-killing violence doubled the amount that I needed to bring them. Obviously that wasn't something I was willing to do, so I exited dialogue, armed everyone with grenades, and had all of them throw a grenade into the group of monks to initiate combat. Instead of the missile coming out of the silo and combat starting like is supposed to happen, that cutscene got cut into by the "combat results" screen since the people who got grenades thrown at them died instantly. The weird part is that no one in sight would initiate combat after that, so I could gun down the entire group of mad monks at the Temple of Titan's entrance without them shooting back. Talk about a lucky break.

 

[Sardukhar]

so I could gun down the entire group of mad monks at the Temple of Titan's entrance without them shooting back. Talk about a lucky break.

Reload and do it again, sans glitch. That's what real men do.

I found the Ag Center..challenging. Like most, if not all TB-games, start positioning is key. If you get that down, at sufficient range, you're good to go.

I surely do miss stealth, though. I absolutely die less without it, since in stealth games I'm waaaay too cocky, but I'd like that feeling of success when you stealth-flank an enemy and just mow them down in one turn as they try to get to cover.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Will buy it when its on sale for 5$.

Mr. El cheapo strikes again.

 

[227]

Reload and do it again, sans glitch. That's what real men do.

But I'm a number, and numbers are opportunistic.

Plus I'm on the second map and unwilling to backtrack. No way am I playing through Damonta again. Speaking of which, slicer-dicers are horrible. Whoever decided that it'd be a good thing to include damage sponges with a million action points and an ability to leap across the map to you should be fired out of a cannon into the sun. Probably the least balanced enemies I've seen in a turn-based game in a long, long time.

 

[Suhiira]

Talk about a lucky break.

Sounds like your killing them instantly caused a bug in that the other monks didn't get "notified" you were hostile. Might want to report that in the Wasteland 2 forums.

Wait till you go inside the silo !

 

[Sardukhar]

Sigh. You guys are so far ahead of me.

I have to ask...WHO leaves that kind of thing, in that state, in their own base? Idjits!

 

[227]

Wait till you go inside the silo !

I actually skipped Silo 7. Diamondback and the monks both suck, so I promised to get the explode-y thing and then never bothered. When you're forced to choose between two bad options, the only winning move is to refuse to play (with bonus points for screwing over as many people as possible in the process).

Sigh. You guys are so far ahead of me.

Cheat Engine -> Speedhack. Great for those long trudges, especially since the game gets MUCH better later on.

I have to ask...WHO leaves that kind of thing, in that state, in their own base? Idjits!

Really, it's your own fault for pressing the button. What did you think was going to happen? No mysterious button in the history of time has ever done anything positive, so there's no one but yourself to blame for the unintended consequences of your button lust.

 

[Sardukhar]

Really, it's your own fault for pressing the button. What did you think was going to happen? No mysterious button in the history of time has ever done anything positive, so there's no one but yourself to blame for the unintended consequences of your button lust.

But it..it was so BIG. And so....red. Yes. Yesssss.....

 

[Suhiira]

Sigh. You guys are so far ahead of me.

I have to ask...WHO leaves that kind of thing, in that state, in their own base? Idjits!

They worship it.
Religion and rationalism are never used in the same sentence unless it's one like this.

 

[Suhiira]

Speaking of which, slicer-dicers are horrible. Whoever decided that it'd be a good thing to include damage sponges with a million action points and an ability to leap across the map to you should be fired out of a cannon into the sun. Probably the least balanced enemies I've seen in a turn-based game in a long, long time.

ALL the NPCs in the game have better initiative and move rates then the average character. I guess it's their way of making combat challenging, you almost never get to attack until you've absorbed at least one opposition attack sequence. REAL fun when they hose you down with an automatic weapon or toss a volley of explosives.

 

[227]

They worship it.

Pretty sure he's talking about the button in the citadel base, right outside the medic.

ALL the NPCs in the game have better initiative and move rates then the average character. I guess it's their way of making combat challenging, you almost never get to attack until you've absorbed at least one opposition attack sequence. REAL fun when they hose you down with an automatic weapon or toss a volley of explosives.

Right? Luckily my sniper has her sniper rifle skill maxed out and a special scope/barrel/clip that gives her a ton of range and accuracy. If I initiate combat by having her take a free shot from afar, she always seems to have the first attack, too. That's usually enough to take out that one troublesome lobber/whatever before they can even move (she does something like 80-140 damage per shot with headshot).