Way of the Witcher revealed!

[Draconifors]

Hmm... a weaker, old Foltest and a weaker, old Hubert Rejk in one (potentially Immune) card. There is probably an argument to be made for playing him early and never using the Order, since it's NR.

Doesn't seem like an OP card, especially since 40-card decks are a thing of the past. Plus, Yrden and untargeted tall removal can wreck him if his Order is used.

 

[replayNinja]

Playing as the first card in R1 can be killed in a million different ways. With inspired zeal, you can immediately activate and get a HUGE value, but then without immunity, the tall card can be killed in another million different ways. I don't think anyone would do that. On read coin, using IZ you can abuse using this card to win on even. But without immunity it is vulnerable. If you don't immediately trigger his Order, he is useless. The carry over is not going to be huge as it is going to be +6 in 2 rounds.

I don't know. I don't see him being like broken or OP. 12P with a condition that he has to be played in R1 and being useless in R3.. I don't know..

you seem to be focused on his order ability, that's hardly even the issue. While NR boost archetype has taken a backseat since SW became popular, it was just as problematic before the last expansion and the faction has only since become more consistent with the addition of echoes and tutors. There are so many ways this card is going to make it difficult to remove NR engines. In any case, we'll wait for the inevitable "The problem with..." post

 

[rrc]

you seem to be focused on his order ability, that's hardly even the issue. While NR boost archetype has taken a backseat since SW became popular, it was just as problematic before the last expansion and the faction has only since become more consistent with the addition of echoes and tutors. There are so many ways this card is going to make it difficult to remove NR engines. In any case, we'll wait for the inevitable "The problem with..." post

If someone is going to play a 12P card playing for 4 points to get +6 carryover over two rounds.. I would like them as my opponent. There is already SW, Drummer, Anna to boost an engine when it comes on board. Also NR has AA.

Without using the order, this card is utterly useless and playing for 4 points is a round losing thing. I am really curious to see how people are going to play this card. My current take is, this is "pointslam in R1 and win it on even hoping that the opponent doesn't have tall removal" which is not worth it at 12P since this will suck in R3. Lets see.. Only time will tell.

 

[InkognitoXI]

you seem to be focused on his order ability, that's hardly even the issue. While NR boost archetype has taken a backseat since SW became popular, it was just as problematic before the last expansion and the faction has only since become more consistent with the addition of echoes and tutors. There are so many ways this card is going to make it difficult to remove NR engines. In any case, we'll wait for the inevitable "The problem with..." post

You mean how All-G. makes NR engines too difficult to answer ?
Oh my bad, noone uses that card in NR and SW makes NR engines, if desired, so ludicrously difficult to answer anyways that Vysagota actually sees play, competetive play at that.

The new card (Erland of Larvik) is fine, at the very least right now I do not see any reason to consider anything else.

 

[Slizzl]

The fact that he boosts deck only probably balances him out. At first I thought he was like old Foltest as a gold in that he boosts everything which would be ridiculously OP with current NR.
Instead he's Foltest-lite, which is probably fine. 40 card Foltest used to be my favorite deck in the beta so this has made me want to return to the faction.
There's currently not enough NR cards that summon from deck to really do it justice but not all has been revealed yet. My hope is something similar to old Dun Banners where they flew out from your deck when a certain condition was fulfilled.
The best use for Erland is probably Blue Stripes decks I imagine.

 

[Messyr]

I don't understand how this card is broken or OP. (I am an ST player. Please don't assume I am an NR fanboy). How is this card OP? In which situation this card can be played and considered as OP?

Playing him R1 is where he can play for a big value as there will be many cards in the deck. But when he plays, he plays for 4 points and on Order can go very tall. If you don't use the order (because the opponent passes) he plays for a shitty value. If you use the order, he takes away all the boosts and he is just a point slam (and not carry-over). Without the immunity, he is going to be locked or killed or banished. If you are going to get immunity you should play him when you have 4 cards in hand. At that point the opponent can even pass and make just a point slam card.

Using him in R3 may not bring a lot of value as you may have 6-8 cards in the deck and one or two may be specials.

So, playing him in R3 is utterly useless. Playing him in R1.. the opponent can pass (which can force the opponent to pass and make way for a long R3, but is it worth it)? Even if the opponent passes, you are going to benefit +6 points by carry over (as you draw the boosted units).

What am I missing? How is he a broken or OP card? Where and how do you plan to use him?

You are not missing anything - and your analysis is correct. This is a good card, but nothing broken.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

My comment for Erland of Larvik:

Untill now my favorite for the high-provision cards.

To my mind this card has basically two possible use cases:

1) Push round 1 via tall Erland von Larvik
- Have a unit heavy deck (maybe even more than 25 cards) and probably best only Oneimorancy as a special.
- Additionally you need Zeal Givers (Inspired Zeal. Ves, Siege Support, Petri's Philter)
=> As soon as you have Zeal Giver in round 1 you can play Erland and use his order immediately. Assuming a 25 card deck you have 10 cards in hand and 15 cards left in deck. Then this strategy would go for a 19 (15+4) for 10 deck.
=> You can enlarge your deck via small provision units. Then you have higher boost value. On the other hand it´s less likely that you dráw Erland and you have more "garbage" in your deck. Maybe you can use Ofiri Merchant to get rid of the garbage.
Main risk: tall removal via cards like Curse of Corruption, Villentretenmerth, Scorch, Serpent Trap

2) Have a boosted/inspired/summoning deck
- Simply use him early and benefit from many boosted units (less removal risk, inspiration, more value, uprising, Vissegerd)
- Assuming no helping cards/special cards you have 6 cards you for round 2, 3 whch are boosted by 1
- As already mentioned the summon cards can help you to get the most of this strategy (Dun Banner, Blue Stripes Commando). Furthermore, one can consider a "boost boosted - strategy" with Coen.
=> In numbers this strategy is just a 10 (4+3+3) for 12. But value can exceed if you use summon cards, inspired cards and uprising swarm strategy.
Main risk: You basically want to get rid of those units you want to be boosted by Erland in round 1. Otherwise, the boost does not apply if they are not in your deck. Then you have to draw the right units in round 2 and 3.


=> All in all, this card offers wide trade-offs (small vs big decks, Push round 1 vs boosted/inspired/summoning deck, Keeping strong cards vs putting them back to deck to benefit from Larvik deck boost) and is definitely not OP to my mind.

 

[InkognitoXI]

An interesting use for the new Erland of Larvik would be to use him in a Blue Stripes deck, boosting them to 5 each, as well as Coen to 4, then use Voymir on the Blue Stripes to make them 6 and then AA into Coen to make him 6 as well, which then allows one to boost Coen and (almost) all Blue Stripes by 3 each.
Although this combo auto-loses against Shirru, requires a lot of resources in the already favored Round 3, the least fragile aspect of the deck and requires getting a lot of specific cards.
With 5 Blue Stripes (double Scout + Reinforcements) and 2 Inspired Zeal charges this would be 2 (Inspired Zeal) + 30 (Roche: Merciless) + 11 (Voymir) + 10 (Erland) + 23 (Coen + AA) = 76 with 4 cards.
Propably a terrible idea regardless, given that thinning decks are getting less out of Erland.
At that point I guess even Kikimore Queen is more reliable for better payoff.

Edit: Interesting is also that Erland can suck up the remaining boosts left by a Vesemir in a[n] (almost) pure Witcher deck.

 

[rrc]

Gezras of Leyda
Revealed by Satshine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333365433324498945

 

[Gyg]

Griffin Witcher Mentor enables to draw one additional boosted unit. For sure a very interesting card.
@rrc Rather high points celling for new ST card, don't you think?

 

[Pacifixer]

Gezras of Leyda
Revealed by Satshine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333365433324498945

Holy shit! This guy is strong!

 

[InkognitoXI]

So Gezras can be 4 full row buffs if combined with movement ?
The card sounds good and should definitely be a card one has to keep in mind when playing against ST, given that the row punish and row buff aspect during the last few turns alone should be enough without any further synergies.
I wonder if the Adrenaline 3 condition allows one to pick a row for the row punish or if it is still only the Melee row, which I would assume.
I am careful with the term auto-include, however this card might be as much of an auto-include (for ST decks that can swarm) as Oak used to be in ST, given that even without synergies this card should (with setup any ST deck can do) be able to immediately play as a 13 for 12, which forces the opponent to immediately answer it.
Scrap that, I do not like the term auto-include, if there are any additional conditions attached, especially given the implied provocative tone to it.
I would say this is a definite staple for ST decks, if they can swarm the ranged row.

 

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

Gezras of Leyda
Revealed by Satshine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333365433324498945

So much synergy in just one card

 

[rrc]

@rrc Rather high points celling for new ST card, don't you think?

Well, if unanswered, this can bring a lot of values. And to make sure this works to the fullest possible extend, ST players will have to row stack on the Ranged Row and drop him on Melee. And somehow the opponent will have to row stack on Melee for him to get value by this next jump if he survives. If the opponents don't play any cards on Melee, he gets value once in two turns only (when he jumps from melee to ranged to boost his allies and getting no value from he jumps from ranged to melee and attacking no one). With row stacked on Ranged (say 7 units), he gets 12 points on deploy, breaking even. That itself is good enough!

By first look, he seem strong, but opponents can play around him to not get damaged by his move (and doing so putting themselves in for row punish). But nonetheless, he is a very good strong card for ST movement!

To be honest Gezras reminds me a lot of Arnaghad, with both not taking an immediate action and being somewhat "must answer" threats (with Gezras having a higher point ceiling).

Funny to bring Arnaghad in comparison. If Arnaghad is present on board, Gezras plays for 0 points
You see Arnaghad is a card which needs to be removed immediately if you want to play any card. Even he is gets Heatwaved or locked or killed, he has played his part in delaying the opponent's strategy by a turn which can be game winning by itself. I would say Gezras is not nearly as threatening as Arnaghad.

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...]
Funny to bring Arnaghad in comparison. If Arnaghad is present on board, Gezras plays for 0 points
[...]

I never claimed he was a counter, also this only applies if you do not play Gezras early.

[...]
You see Arnaghad is a card which needs to be removed immediately if you want to play any card. Even he is gets Heatwaved or locked or killed, he has played his part in delaying the opponent's strategy by a turn which can be game winning by itself. I would say Gezras is not nearly as threatening as Arnaghad.

When I saw the card I assumed it would trigger at the start of the next owner's turn, not the end, so both would be must answer cards.
Also I very much doubt Arnaghad will be as oppressive as you claim (without the Sukrus interaction, which I hope will be hotfixed).
You also have to consider that against non-engine, non-order units Arnaghad does not play for an insane amoung of points.
To be fair I really do not see how (outside of Sukrus) Arnaghad is supposed to be stronger than this unit, especially given that with movement Gezras can play for 37 points if left unanswered (and that is if you only drop him once the Adrenaline condition is met).
All 3 GT charges + Gezras can be up to 43 points.

 

[quintivarium]

Re: Erlund.

I misjudged this card with a stupid mental error (I forgot to deduct the ten cards drawn in round one when computing hispossible boost and carryover).

I still very much dislike the card, but I withdraw my object that it is op. It does still drastically impact round one dynamics in a very negative way. If removed, (which pushes the game toward demanding more removal when there is already too much emphasis upon removal), the carryover has much more value in NR than in other factions. Future cards drawn or summoned (likely to be at least eight with the summoning and tutoring NR has) now immediately satisfy the inspired condition. And engines (esp. frigates) are a step further from removal range. If not removed, the card adds 15 points to NR’s first round reach (likely making that reach 21 to 25 points). An opponent on blue coin can almost never safely pass without risking losing on even unless they play very aggressively — which, with the carryover will likely costthe remaining rounds.

Twelve provisions is a steep price — especially if the card is not drawn in round one. So this card also increases RNG and the demand for all purpose tutors (another bad aspect of the game). In short, even if not overpowered, this card promotes a meta using the worst features of Gwent. To me that is even worse than being OP — at least with OP cards one can hope for an eventual nerf. Instead the game just drifts more and more in unpleasant directions.

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2020

Re Gezras
Here is another card that, if not removed, plays for insane value. I really dislike the direction these last two cards have taken the expansion. I take back my complaints about OP bronzes — with cards like this, four provision cards need to routinely play for twelve points.

 

[rrc]

I never claimed he was a counter, also this only applies if you do not play Gezras early.

I was joking to tell how Arnaghad is a bigger threat for cards like Gezras. . Gezras or even the first NG epic that was revealed which will boost itself at turn end. Or even to NR if they want to play a card with order or something which does things on turn end. All those cards are basically nullified by Arnaghad. Gezras on the other hand is a point slammy and is not a "if you don't kill me, you can't play anything" kind of danger. But I agree, Gerzras has a HUGE point potential than Arnaghad. They are both a threat and need to be removed - one as a pontslam card and other as control card.

When I saw the card I assumed it would trigger at the start of the next owner's turn, not the end, so both would be must answer cards.
Also I very much doubt Arnaghad will be as oppressive as you claim (without the Sukrus interaction, which I hope will be hotfixed).
You also have to consider that against non-engine, non-order units Arnaghad does not play for an insane amoung of points.

Arnaghad next to Sukurs = Game Over. Simple. It is a simple binary question. True or False? Yes or NO? Can you banish Arnaghad? If yes, then play. Else, resign. Otherwise, against MO, Arnaghad can be easily killed by playing Ozzrel or Golyat or something big. But if he survives, the deck which has him will have plenty of boost/protect Arnaghad strategy left. Even the Battle Trance leader can boost him by 6 if needed. Other than MO, I don't think there is any faction which can kill Arnaghad in one shot (without Sukurus of course) and once he survives, he is only going to get stronger. Effectively playing 5*7 and denying the opponent's last 5 cards. That is no way comparable to any point slam card.

To be fair I really do not see how (outside of Sukrus) Arnaghad is supposed to be stronger than this unit, especially given that with movement Gezras can play for 37 points if left unanswered (and that is if you only drop him once the Adrenaline condition is met).
All 3 GT charges + Gezras can be up to 43 points.

How do you arrive at this number? Lets say ST player has row stacked on Ranged Row and have 8 units. Playing Gezras on melee will get 5+8 on that turn. So, you mean, you play your next unit on Melee and move Gezras to Melee so that he gets another 8 (by self boosting) and so one for the next 3 turns effectively getting 4x8 + 5 on the body. Adding +6 from GT is silly as it doesn't belong to this card (in that case GT is a 0 point leader).

So, yes, 37 is the theoretical maximum for Gezras (and Sentry + mentor synergy on top of that). But there are a couple of overlooked points.
1) You should have 8 units on ranged row. Meaning, even in a long round, you were able to play and keep 8 units on ranged row. Spawn/Span is not hard for ST, but still having all 8 units survive is not as easy. I play Oak in my deck (yes, I know, it sucks, but no better alternative at high end slot for my GT decks) and I rarely ever get 8 units on any row to play for 15 points. 2) he is just 5 points body which can be easily killed by a million different way. 6 point body makes a huge difference than a 5 point body. A 7 point body makes even more difficult to remove it (at that point you need Rockslide or Heatwave or leader support).

I am not saying he is weak or anything. He is very good and very strong. And when I am adding him in my deck, my expectation would be that he plays for 12 or 13 points which is very good.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Gezras of Leyda
Revealed by Satshine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333365433324498945

Also really like this one. Actually his biggest danger is removal (small body of only 5). So maybe some Miner are happy to protect him.

What I find ridiculuos is that Arnaghad (to my strongest card in WotW expansion) only costs 10 provisions in his current setup. But when I read the theoretical of Sukrus correctly one can expect that Sukrus will be reworked.

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...]
Gezras on the other hand is a point slammy and is not a "if you don't kill me, you can't play anything" kind of danger. But I agree, Gerzras has a HUGE point potential than Arnaghad. They are both a threat and need to be removed - one as a pontslam card and other as control card.
[...]

That was the point, both have an insane impact if left unchecked.

[...]
Arnaghad next to Sukurs = Game Over. Simple. It is a simple binary question. True or False? Yes or NO? Can you banish Arnaghad? If yes, then play. Else, resign.
[...]

Pretty much, which is why I stated that I would not be surprised by a hotfix on the Sukrus interaction.

[...]
That is no way comparable to any point slam card.
[...]

Yes it is, "There is nothing you can do now to not fall behind apart from having an answer" is the same, no matter if you spell it via a control tool or a point slam card.

[...]
How do you arrive at this number? Lets say ST player has row stacked on Ranged Row and have 8 units. Playing Gezras on melee will get 5+8 on that turn. So, you mean, you play your next unit on Melee and move Gezras to Melee so that he gets another 8 (by self boosting) and so one for the next 3 turns effectively getting 4x8 + 5 on the body. Adding +6 from GT is silly as it doesn't belong to this card (in that case GT is a 0 point leader).
[...]

[...]
All 3 GT charges + Gezras can be up to 43 points.

[...]
1) You should have 8 units on ranged row. Meaning, even in a long round, you were able to play and keep 8 units on ranged row. Spawn/Span is not hard for ST, but still having all 8 units survive is not as easy. I play Oak in my deck (yes, I know, it sucks, but no better alternative at high end slot for my GT decks) and I rarely ever get 8 units on any row to play for 15 points. 2) he is just 5 points body which can be easily killed by a million different way. 6 point body makes a huge difference than a 5 point body. A 7 point body makes even more difficult to remove it (at that point you need Rockslide or Heatwave or leader support).
[...]

Maintaining 8 units is not as difficult as you might think, considering that you still have your regular play during the turns in which he buffs the backrow.
Also ST is the faction with a lot of handbuffs, in the worst case you could use 1-2 GT charges to make sure that only really Heatwave or such answers work on him.

[...]
I am not saying he is weak or anything. He is very good and very strong. And when I am adding him in my deck, my expectation would be that he plays for 12 or 13 points which is very good.

Neither am I for either of them.
My point is that he will (with somewhat easy setup) play as a 13 for 12 if answered and much more if left unchecked.
The argument I am using is that Arnaghad has a bit more impact if left unchecked and Gezras plays for much more, even if he gets answered.

 

[rrc]

Also really like this one. Actually his biggest danger is removal (small body of only 5). So maybe some Miner are happy to protect him.

What I find ridiculuos is that Arnaghad (to my strongest card in WotW expansion) only costs 10 provisions in his current setup. But when I read the theoretical of Sukrus correctly one can expect that Sukrus will be reworked.

I am 10000% sure that Sukrus will not be reworked. To have Sukrus and Arnaghad setup and working fine will be a little to pull off. Even otherwise, CDPR likes these kind of goofy crazy combos. At the max (which I don't think they will do at all) they may do provision or power nerf, but not a rework. Arnaghad is a dangerous card which is going to make control ST and/or control NG more prevalent (since you will have to handle Defender, Sukurs, and Arnaghad, failing to handle one will lose you the game right there).