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S

Sensimilius

Forum regular
#821
Dec 4, 2020
quintivarium said:
Where is the risk in taking scenarios? Every scenario trades up versus literally everything — until now.

If a card like Werrit causes players to take pause in routinely grabbing twelve and thirteen provision cards, it does the game more good than harm.
Click to expand...
Actually it will now just make NG's scenarios more safe to use since you can now steal opponents Korathi so he can't use it vs your own Scenario. :p
I never even used a scenario since I don't like the whole idea of it...
 
replayNinja

replayNinja

Forum regular
#822
Dec 4, 2020
OuterSpaceDoggo said:
If you build your deck around just ONE CARD then you deserve the lose as it is a really bad strategy. The same could've happened with the card milled or simply not drawed. Also, let's assume that the NG player just go all out, assimilate deck.
It plays Cantarella + Warrit + bronzes to just trigger the scenario ( read Duchess Informant ) and that's assuming there are bronzes in play that can trigger the scenario.
Basically the NG player just played at least half of his/her entire hand just to trigger the "stolen scenario".
Won't even comment about the rest of the cards as they are just examples of my first statement/ previous post.

EDIT: Also the new Maxii card screws the deck manipulation strategy really fast.
Click to expand...
You don't need assimilate to use this card effectively, not sure why you are focused on activating the scenario's chapters. It's not necessary and there are plenty of other targets as well...Heatwave, Evolving cards, Oneiro etc. Again, the game isn't just about gaining points. Denying the opponent their finisher is almost an assured win.

It has zero to do with building your deck around one card, a gold card is a gold card because it adds a lot of points to the board even if your strategy isn't centered around that card. Most players don't even build their decks around scenarios however it does synergize with the rest of their decks so removing it is a huge advantage. If it wasn't, the devs would have completely eliminated artifact removal last patch.
Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2020

Messyr said:
I mean - and I was getting into this in another topic in more detail - this is NG in it's finest: pure grief. The whole faction is designed this way, 75% of it's archetypes (effective or not) are built to mess with the opponent's gameplay and gameplan. And this is just fine. As long as such "toxic" mechanics remain mostly with one faction - and said faction can reach a reasonably stable position in the meta (and not dominating it), I would call that a success, any day.
Click to expand...
Deck disruption isn't a new mechanic to TCG mate. It can be done well and in a balanced way. The fact that you describe success in the faction as "pure grief" and "tears" for other players is both weird and a bit silly... no offense. I guess that's the state of the game and the community now :coolstory:
 
Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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OuterSpaceDoggo

OuterSpaceDoggo

Forum regular
#823
Dec 4, 2020
Sensimilius said:
It's not about "build your deck around just ONE CARD".
There is no point in trying to explain anything to you obviously. And the fact that they had to make a neutral card just to somewhat attempt to nerf this obviously broken mechanic tells us something. Another binary mechanic where a card is very narrowly specialized to be used in one exact situation otherwise it's a waste of space.
Click to expand...
You can look at your deck and graveyard anytime. As soon as you see this card hitting the board you gotta start thinking about a new way to play this game instead of relying just on the "stolen" card .
I can see now why NG is so hated, as soon as a card that requires thinking a bit more instead of randomly clicking and smashing the head on the keyboard and still winning drops in the game people starts crying "broken".
This card tries to mess with your plan, that's the entire point of NG. Distruption, control, unnerve, all in a "fair" way. Also, assimilate decks's provisions are already strict as it is, we will see what card will have to leave to make space for this card.
 
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Q

quintivarium

Forum regular
#824
Dec 4, 2020
Sensimilius said:
Okay, so apart from AA lol, how many more cards can you give as example of being useless?
Click to expand...
Let’s see: any SY card that draws on the coin mechanic (e.g. Phillipa Eilhart), any card that exploits tagged units in your deck or graveyard (e.g. Ermian, or Harold), any deathwish card, any card that requires setup (e.g. Gord or Lippy or Keltullis...), any card whose effect is unchanged by the person who plays it (Curse of Corruption), any card explicitly tied to a faction (Sigrdrifa’s Rite), any card requiring a particular board condition (Gerald of Rivia), any card with a deck construction condition (Shupe), and probably lots of others I’m not thinking of now.
 
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Messyr

Messyr

Forum regular
#825
Dec 4, 2020
replayNinja said:
Deck disruption isn't a new mechanic to TCG mate. It can be done well and in a balanced way. The fact that you describe success in the faction as "pure grief" and "tears" for other players is both weird and a bit silly... no offense. I guess that's the state of the game and the community now
Click to expand...
Absolutely well aware of deck disruption being a vital part of TCGs - and this here is an excellent example for that tactic. It is done well and it is balanced. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but that won't turn it to fact, just as mine will be one opinion among many.
I'm sorry you got offended by me using words like "tears" and "grief" (you forgot tantrum). You are free to make any assumptions based on them about me (though I really don't see how that describes the community in total), but believe me, it has zero offensive or negative tone. This is the faction we are talking about. Would you deny that it caused all the above mentioned feelings over the past years with more than half of it's archetypes?

If anything, the state of the game is improving recently because of these additions with WotW.
(which is a subjective opinion again, of course)

I can see now why NG is so hated, as soon as a card that requires thinking a bit more instead of randomly clicking and smashing the head on the keyboard and still winning drops in the game people starts crying "broken".
This card tries to mess with your plan, that's the entire point of NG. Distruption, control, unnerve, all in a "fair" way.
Click to expand...
This ^.
 
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rrc

rrc

Senior user
#826
Dec 4, 2020
If this NG card really becomes meta, people will start including Dandelion:poet.. A sweet counter strategy. Poet and this Warrit will slowly counter-meta themselves so that Warrit will become a surprise factor after a month or so where people may lose more games playing Warrit (due to more Poets playing counter)..

Lets be real. Without this card, almost every card NG got till now are bloody useless. Viper Witcher who plays for 6 for 5, the Alchemist, the Mentor are all very low tempo cards which wouldn't have seen any play without this card. Even Warrit is a low tempo card (7 used to be good, but now 7 points can be done easily by a lot of 4P cards). I am not an NG fanboy. I even hate this card (thinking it might steal or force me to play my Gazres in R1 prematurely). But this card is the key card for NG in this expansion. Otherwise, NG can very well assume this expansion never happened (when deckbuilding).

Molegion confirmed that he will reveal the card being put on the top to both players. So, lets say if he puts Call of Forest, I don't need to worry. Is he going to steal a 0 point card? If he puts Gazres, I might want to play him with CoF or take him with Poet. It just adds a different strategy and tactics to the game which is refreshing. It is a necessary evil for the Evil empire, whose sole purpose is to be annoying and pissing-off-opponents.

As soon as I saw this card (and only after I saw this card in the entire expansion for NG), the fear factor and to consider 'NG exists and need to think about it' feeling came to me. This ability should/could have been a Legendary ability IMHO.
Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2020

If this NG card really becomes meta, people will start including Dandelion:poet.. A sweet counter strategy. Poet and this Warrit will slowly counter-meta themselves so that Warrit will become a surprise factor after a month or so where people may lose more games playing Warrit (due to more Poets playing counter)..

Lets be real. Without this card, almost every card NG got till now are bloody useless. Viper Witcher who plays for 6 for 5, the Alchemist, the Mentor are all very low tempo cards which wouldn't have seen any play without this card. Even Warrit is a low tempo card (7 used to be good, but now 7 points can be done easily by a lot of 4P cards). I am not an NG fanboy. I even hate this card (thinking it might steal or force me to play my Gazres in R1 prematurely). But this card is the key card for NG in this expansion. Otherwise, NG can very well assume this expansion never happened (when deckbuilding).

Molegion confirmed that he will reveal the card being put on the top to both players. So, lets say if he puts Call of Forest, I don't need to worry. Is he going to steal a 0 point card? If he puts Gazres, I might want to play him with CoF or take him with Poet. It just adds a different strategy and tactics to the game which is refreshing. It is a necessary evil for the Evil empire, whose sole purpose is to be annoying and pissing-off-opponents.

As soon as I saw this card (and only after I saw this card in the entire expansion for NG), the fear factor and to consider 'NG exists and need to think about it' feeling came to me. This ability should/could have been a Legendary ability IMHO.
Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2020

If this NG card really becomes meta, people will start including Dandelion:poet.. A sweet counter strategy. Poet and this Warrit will slowly counter-meta themselves so that Warrit will become a surprise factor after a month or so where people may lose more games playing Warrit (due to more Poets playing counter)..

Lets be real. Without this card, almost every card NG got till now are bloody useless. Viper Witcher who plays for 6 for 5, the Alchemist, the Mentor are all very low tempo cards which wouldn't have seen any play without this card. Even Warrit is a low tempo card (7 used to be good, but now 7 points can be done easily by a lot of 4P cards). I am not an NG fanboy. I even hate this card (thinking it might steal or force me to play my Gazres in R1 prematurely). But this card is the key card for NG in this expansion. Otherwise, NG can very well assume this expansion never happened (when deckbuilding).

Molegion confirmed that he will reveal the card being put on the top to both players. So, lets say if he puts Call of Forest, I don't need to worry. Is he going to steal a 0 point card? If he puts Gazres, I might want to play him with CoF or take him with Poet. It just adds a different strategy and tactics to the game which is refreshing. It is a necessary evil for the Evil empire, whose sole purpose is to be annoying and pissing-off-opponents.

As soon as I saw this card (and only after I saw this card in the entire expansion for NG), the fear factor and to consider 'NG exists and need to think about it' feeling came to me. This ability should/could have been a Legendary ability IMHO.
 
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replayNinja

replayNinja

Forum regular
#827
Dec 4, 2020
quintivarium said:
Let’s see: any SY card that draws on the coin mechanic (e.g. Phillipa Eilhart), any card that exploits tagged units in your deck or graveyard (e.g. Ermian, or Harold), any deathwish card, any card that requires setup (e.g. Gord or Lippy or Keltullis...), any card whose effect is unchanged by the person who plays it (Curse of Corruption), any card explicitly tied to a faction (Sigrdrifa’s Rite), any card requiring a particular board condition (Gerald of Rivia), any card with a deck construction condition (Shupe), and probably lots of others I’m not thinking of now.
Click to expand...
Nothing you listed here is useless. Gord gets boosted from ANY special card you played during the game. Aside from that it requires the opponent to build their deck around it (for a huge point swing) which you don't need, so if you take it from the opponent you've crippled their entire strategy and almost certainly won. Also it's a 7 provision card, the odds of that being the highest cost card in your opponents deck is very unlikely unless you play Warritt in R3. Same flaw in your argument with deathwish (because NG doesn't use deathwish units in matches?), Curse of corruption....huh? Nothing you have listed here should even be on this list unless your opponent drew every gold card in R1 in which case they'd lose the game anyway.
 
Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
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Slizzl

Slizzl

Forum regular
#828
Dec 4, 2020
High-end golds with ridiculous value like Scenarios have been an issue for over a year now yet when they add in ways to punish these greedy decks the community complains. It's a vicious cycle.
Deck manipulation NG went from being labeled a "meme deck" to preemptively being called toxic with just one card.
This is why there's a lack of technical decks in current Gwent.
 
Messyr

Messyr

Forum regular
#829
Dec 4, 2020
Slizzl said:
High-end golds with ridiculous value like Scenarios have been an issue for over a year now yet when they add in ways to punish these greedy decks the community complains. It's a vicious cycle.
Deck manipulation NG went from being labeled a "meme deck" to preemptively being called toxic with just one card.
This is why there's a lack of technical decks in current Gwent.
Click to expand...
This sums it up perfectly.
It is obvious opinions here won't be getting closer on this one, and again, that is just the way it should be. Exactly the sort of reactions a good NG manipulation card should draw from various people.
Let's move to the next card I'd say :facepalm:
 
InkognitoXI

InkognitoXI

Senior user
#830
Dec 4, 2020
Honestly these new deck disruption NG cards are the non-toxic version of Mill.
 
Draconifors

Draconifors

Moderator
#831
Dec 4, 2020
I don't need to be all-seeing to be pretty sure of what I'll try out on Tuesday and Wednesday.
 
cardgame-respecter

cardgame-respecter

Fresh user
#832
Dec 4, 2020
I'm looking forward to being a NG dick again, and being a salamandra drugpusher. Kinda wish vypper had deploy: give poison though, it kinda fits a big snake like that.
 
J

jed9653

Forum regular
#833
Dec 4, 2020
Excited for quite a few possible decks. NR Witcher spam, MO Insectoids without the Caranthir crud, NG Hyperthin. ST Movement looks fun, but I have a huge learning deficit on that archetype. Self poison looks interesting, but my fear of a NG match running that deck will just give me angina.
 
DRK3

DRK3

Senior user
#834
Dec 4, 2020
OuterSpaceDoggo said:
If you build your deck around just ONE CARD then you deserve the lose as it is a really bad strategy. The same could've happened with the card milled or simply not drawed. Also, let's assume that the NG player just go all out, assimilate deck.
It plays Cantarella + Warrit + bronzes to just trigger the scenario ( read Duchess Informant ) and that's assuming there are bronzes in play that can trigger the scenario.
Basically the NG player just played at least half of his/her entire hand just to trigger the "stolen scenario".
Won't even comment about the rest of the cards as they are just examples of my first statement/ previous post.

EDIT: Also the new Maxii card screws the deck manipulation strategy really fast.
Click to expand...
I do not wish to enter this discussion over "the honor of NG" and the state of the faction, as there's quite an element of subjectivity. I will remain neutral, and not take sides, like Geralt (wishes, but rarely accomplishes :shrug:)

However, i can objectively say this: triggering enemy scenarios for NG is super easy.
I can say this with certainty - how many others can say they've played masquerade ball from opponents more times than balls of their own? :howdy:

Recently ive even tried playing enemy scenarios with other factions, now that is a true challenge, but NG? I stole scenarios, played their own scenarios, 2 times on a match, even 3x sometimes, and never had a problem fully triggering them all, and yes those decks were designed to counter scenarios, but that is not necessary to complete a scenario, Braathens and Bribery are NG staples and there's so many other cheap reliable cards for it, you dont need a full assimilate deck to pull this strategy.
 
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Markus_Wirth

Markus_Wirth

Forum regular
#835
Dec 4, 2020
According to latest meta report NG is the least performing fraction.

So I am happy that WotW contains some well-synchronised cards. You can play Warrit-The-All Seeing early. Then there is the strong temptation to use Viper witcher mentor early. And in the end "steal" the high provision card with all the included risks (e.g. steal Ambitious Assault, Blood Eagle a Nature Tutor) and rewards. One very obvious counter after the first Viper witcher mentor is just passing. Then you have to decide whether you want to use another card (Cantarella) to eliminate the high provision card with the side effect of potential card disadvantage. If you also pass and probably win the round you helped your opponent to use his high-provision card next round.

What I consider really thrilling is also how NG players will do to take advantage from Kolgrim and viper witcher adept:
- Will they use thinning and opponent deck filling?
- Or will they attack the opponent decks witch Cantarella, Viper witcher mentor and so on? If yes, will they use decks >25 cards for additional benefits?
 
J

jed9653

Forum regular
#836
Dec 4, 2020
Markus_Wirth said:
According to latest meta report NG is the least performing fraction.

So I am happy that WotW contains some well-synchronised cards. You can play Warrit-The-All Seeing early. Then there is the strong temptation to use Viper witcher mentor early. And in the end "steal" the high provision card with all the included risks (e.g. steal Ambitious Assault, Blood Eagle a Nature Tutor) and rewards. One very obvious counter after the first Viper witcher mentor is just passing. Then you have to decide whether you want to use another card (Cantarella) to eliminate the high provision card with the side effect of potential card disadvantage. If you also pass and probably win the round you helped your opponent to use his high-provision card next round.

What I consider really thrilling is also how NG players will do to take advantage from Kolgrim and viper witcher adept:
- Will they use thinning and opponent deck filling?
- Or will they attack the opponent decks witch Cantarella, Viper witcher mentor and so on? If yes, will they use decks >25 cards for additional benefits?
Click to expand...
I plan on using my normal Hyperthin deck and subbing in Kolgrim, not sure if I want to add viper adepts in yet, or where to do so without fully redesigning that deck.
 
replayNinja

replayNinja

Forum regular
#837
Dec 4, 2020
Slizzl said:
High-end golds with ridiculous value like Scenarios have been an issue for over a year now yet when they add in ways to punish these greedy decks the community complains. It's a vicious cycle.
Deck manipulation NG went from being labeled a "meme deck" to preemptively being called toxic with just one card.
This is why there's a lack of technical decks in current Gwent.
Click to expand...
The difference here is obvious, how do you see that as a solution to overtuned Golds when no one else has access to it except one faction. Really...so you're suggesting the best way to balance Gwent is to ensure NG and only NG has an answer to everything? :coolstory:
 
Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
Q

quintivarium

Forum regular
#838
Dec 5, 2020
replayNinja said:
The difference here is obvious, how do you see that as a solution to overtuned Golds when no one else has access to it except one faction. Really...so you're suggesting the best way to balance Gwent is to ensure NG and only NG has an answer to everything? :coolstory:
Click to expand...
I observe that even one faction can shift the meta (NG poison toward wide strategies, NR engines toward heavy removal). I don’t know this card mix will suffice (although anything helps) as, depending on existing bronzes are modified, NG appears even weaker after this expansion than before it. None of the currently recognized issues with NG are addressed in the revealed cards.
 
replayNinja

replayNinja

Forum regular
#839
Dec 5, 2020
quintivarium said:
I observe that even one faction can shift the meta (NG poison toward wide strategies, NR engines toward heavy removal). I don’t know this card mix will suffice (although anything helps) as, depending on existing bronzes are modified, NG appears even weaker after this expansion than before it. None of the currently recognized issues with NG are addressed in the revealed cards.
Click to expand...
I'm not even opposed to NG getting better cards, they should. But the answer from the devs is always to either make them oppressive/unanswerable or bad, no in between...no balance.

There are of course some people who claim "faction identity" to support this design choice but only feel that way when their faction is on top and quickly change tune when another faction dominates which makes the entire argument flawed. The unfortunate trend now is for 2-3 factions to dominate at a given time and it rotates every expansion. Although the devs seem to be stuck on SK...lol
 
B

Barracuda88

Senior user
#840
Dec 5, 2020
Already hate that Warrit guy
 
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