Waylay needs to be buffed - Make it do 4 damage

[rrc]

When there are so many cards that need to be buffed, creating a thread for a single one of them seems too much. But this card needs to be changed as it is very very weak and shouldn't at 5P with this stats. 3 damage conditionally by putting 3 point body has been the 4P cards for more than an year. Even those cards which did conditionally 6 points with 3 point damage needed to be buffed by relaxing the condition.

This card has no place at 5P slot in its current form. But I don't want this card to be another 4P 3 damage with 3 point body on some condition. The buff I have in mind is to make it do 4 damage. When 5P cards are doing 5 damage and have some effect on top with deathblow, let this card do 4 damage and have the deathblow of spawning a Deadeye.

With this change, this card can help the all-elf decks to be a bit more playable and competitive. In an all-elf deck, the 5P slots are the weakest. With the recent change to the boost-by-elfs-in-hand card, at least there is some scope. Apart from that there is no good elf card at 5P. The purify is one tech option, but adding two copies of it is not usually a good option. I really wish Waylay gets a buff one way or other (either making it 4P or keep it at 5P and make it do 4 damage)

 

[Kraad_]

Buffing it to 4 damage could be too much of a buff to Feign Death in my opinion. But I can see it brought down to 4p

 

[DRK3]

I agree with previous poster, making it 4dmg would be too much of a buff, since most bronze engines are 4pt, i know 7 for 5 is nothing special, but the value of removal is greater than of boosting/pointslam.

So, my suggestion would be to actually make it do 3 dmg and unconditionally generate the deadeye, although im not sure this would make it popular.

(BTW, i've only used my all-elf deck on ranked so far, and last night ranked up where the last 2 matches were against elf trap variants: the first i pushed hard R2 and narrowly managed to force everything out from hand while i still had a few decent cards for R3, the second i didnt commit to R1 at all, he pushed me R2 with traps, but failed miserably and i ended up going into R3 with 1 more card, full leader charges and vernossiel.

Im saying this in defense to all elf decks, when compared to elf trap decks)

 

[Anaeto]

I already asked for this including circle of life. 3 points of removal for 5p is a no no no. Circle of life being a must play for gift is only because of symbiosis and gord synergy. Otherwise it would have about the same lack of play as waylay. It is also not used in movement and schiru decks and should be a must have in those decks. This can only happen at 4p.

 

[rrc]

Buffing it to 4 damage could be too much of a buff to Feign Death in my opinion. But I can see it brought down to 4p

So, it is OK for the Scenario to spawn two 4P cards and two Dead Eyes? There are already two elfs who do conditional 6 for 4 and adding one more would mean nothing. A meaningful way to make this card playable is to increase the damage.

I agree with previous poster, making it 4dmg would be too much of a buff, since most bronze engines are 4pt, i know 7 for 5 is nothing special, but the value of removal is greater than of boosting/pointslam.

So, my suggestion would be to actually make it do 3 dmg and unconditionally generate the deadeye, although im not sure this would make it popular.

(BTW, i've only used my all-elf deck on ranked so far, and last night ranked up where the last 2 matches were against elf trap variants: the first i pushed hard R2 and narrowly managed to force everything out from hand while i still had a few decent cards for R3, the second i didnt commit to R1 at all, he pushed me R2 with traps, but failed miserably and i ended up going into R3 with 1 more card, full leader charges and vernossiel.

Im saying this in defense to all elf decks, when compared to elf trap decks)

How is 4 damage is too much for a 5P card. Every 5P removal card does 5 damage and has some effects on top of that. 4 damage for 5P is no where near too much. I agree traps elf deck sucks. Anyone who knows how to play against it should win it almost every time (unless all their golds are in bottom deck). All efls (or anything else) is better than traps elf decks. But all elf decks are barely competitive. This change is not going to push them to Tier 1 or even Tier 2. It will make playing elf a little competitive.

Doing 3 damage and unconditionally putting a DE for 5P seriously? another 6 for 5 for elfs?

 

[Kraad_]

So, it is OK for the Scenario to spawn two 4P cards and two Dead Eyes? There are already two elfs who do conditional 6 for 4 and adding one more would mean nothing. A meaningful way to make this card playable is to increase the damage.

Yes its okay because buffing it to 4p wouldnt change anything how the scenario works and it sees a lot of play already without buffing the waylay damage. This is mostly because all-in elf decks are a viable archetype so your scenario comes without real deckbuilding cost. And the synergys you get from the elf tag (and deadeyes) are strong enough that it doesnt need extra removal range on the waylay.

 

[DRK3]

How is 4 damage is too much for a 5P card. Every 5P removal card does 5 damage and has some effects on top of that. 4 damage for 5P is no where near too much.

Well, there are two types of bronze specials, the ones that do 5dmg with an added bonus, like rebuke, stunning blow, boiling oil; then there are the ones that have a more 50-50 effect, like the syndicate ones that give 3 coins and do 3 dmg/boost/ spawn a firesworn.

The main purpose of the former is removal, while the latter is just for value, since 3pts is rarely enough to deal with engines unless you got extra damage lined up. And your suggestion to make waylay 4dmg would be the best of both worlds, it could be used for removal and still give a bonus more useful than any of those 5dmg specials.

 

[Anaeto]

Well, there are two types of bronze specials, the ones that do 5dmg with an added bonus, like rebuke, stunning blow, boiling oil; then there are the ones that have a more 50-50 effect, like the syndicate ones that give 3 coins and do 3 dmg/boost/ spawn a firesworn.

The main purpose of the former is removal, while the latter is just for value, since 3pts is rarely enough to deal with engines unless you got extra damage lined up. And your suggestion to make waylay 4dmg would be the best of both worlds, it could be used for removal and still give a bonus more useful than any of those 5dmg specials.

Waylay is a conditional 6 for 5. Are the others conditional?
Waylay can either remain as is and be non conditional 6 for 5 or deal 4 dmg with conditional deathblow or remain as is and go down to 4p. Same with circle of life.

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2021

Also since they buffed borsodi brothers. What's happening to etriel and murliega?

 

[Madlax1992]

4 damage is a bit too much. But 5p for a card that gives you a conditional 6 points is a bit too little, especially in this meta where you would like a 5p card to give you at least 7-8 points on deploy or be an engine if it is an unit. Otherwise make it 4p and it should be fine.

Post automatically merged: May 14, 2021

Waylay is a conditional 6 for 5. Are the others conditional?
Waylay can either remain as is and be non conditional 6 for 5 or deal 4 dmg with conditional deathblow or remain as is and go down to 4p. Same with circle of life.

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2021

Also since they buffed borsodi brothers. What's happening to etriel and murliega?

Borsodi brothers have indeed been buffed, but not enough to make them worth including. Why would you play Ewald when you have Bloody Good Friends? Horst is also not that tempting either. 3 coins without Ewald in the graveyard makes it no better than a Street Urchin. To get double that you must have played Ewald in a previous round, or had it removed by your opponent in the same round. Too conditional. And vitality is generally awful. Coerced Blacksmith boost by 1 for 1 coin. If you are bent on giving vitality, get that useless Oxenfurt Naturalist.

Etriel & Muirlega are in need of a buff. And that buff would make them playable. Far more playable than the Borsodi brothers.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Regarding Waylay:
From my perspective it´s a card which seldom will be included into elf decks for various reasons. Pure elf decks want to have as many elfs as possible in their deck to benefit from this tag. The trap variant usually goes for traps as non-units.

In gwent there are cards which mostly are played because they´re created by other cards. Waylay is often used via Scenario Feign Death. (Another example is Cleaver's Muscle from Cleaver).
From my perspective both Waylay and Cleaver´s Muscle should be at 4 provisions in times of 7 for 4.

Nevertheless, I am not quite sure regarding Waylay as one should see it´s obvious synergies with Vernossiel and the easy preparation via many elf small damage givers which can make it a 8 for 5 if synergizing.

 

[rrc]

Well, there are two types of bronze specials, the ones that do 5dmg with an added bonus, like rebuke, stunning blow, boiling oil; then there are the ones that have a more 50-50 effect, like the syndicate ones that give 3 coins and do 3 dmg/boost/ spawn a firesworn.

The main purpose of the former is removal, while the latter is just for value, since 3pts is rarely enough to deal with engines unless you got extra damage lined up. And your suggestion to make waylay 4dmg would be the best of both worlds, it could be used for removal and still give a bonus more useful than any of those 5dmg specials.

There is no 5P 3 damage and unconditional 3 points. They were all buffed to be 4P. Even before the buff, they were only playable in the crime decks with a lot of intimate engines to make it much more than 6 points. Currently Waylay is the only junkest weakest and most pathetic 5P card which has 3 damage and conditional 3 points on board.

I agree though. I thought about my own suggestion and 4 damage will make this card too good in elf decks and will make them Tier 2 single handedly. We are talking about SK level strong card for ST which can only happen in our dreams. So, at least make it 6 for 4 and remove the condition and in that case, it will completely make Blue Mountain Elite and Dol Blathana Bowman obsolete and will replace them. See how pathetic Elfs are? Or Completely reword Waylay so that it brings something cool to Elfs. In its current state, this is the weakest junkest and most pathetic sh*tty card in the entire game.

Yes its okay because buffing it to 4p wouldnt change anything how the scenario works and it sees a lot of play already without buffing the waylay damage. This is mostly because all-in elf decks are a viable archetype so your scenario comes without real deckbuilding cost. And the synergys you get from the elf tag (and deadeyes) are strong enough that it doesnt need extra removal range on the waylay.

You are correct. It doesn't matter what is the provision on this card as long as people are only going to play it from the scenario. Waylay can be made 15P too and it will have no effect in deckbuilding since anyhow Waylay is only played via the scenario.

 

[Jollyrogerxberg]

@rrc yes,waylay only played via scenario gave defs the impression waylay is actually a played card (can't come up with any idea else why someone should support this card)
still hoping on a rework
This card does not need to do more dmg. It fits the ping style of elfs. Make the card save and secure. do 2dmg spawn deadeye. plain and simple. have it a 4p (tactic still weird) along the buff to SY crimes (all 6/4 crimes) and still count on the "but the extra deadeye has so much synergy" and keep it worse then any other factions 4ps but make it "playable"!!!

 

[Anaeto]

@rrc yes,waylay only played via scenario gave defs the impression waylay is actually a played card (can't come up with any idea else why someone should support this card)
still hoping on a rework
This card does not need to do more dmg. It fits the ping style of elfs. Make the card save and secure. do 2dmg spawn deadeye. plain and simple. have it a 4p (tactic still weird) along the buff to SY crimes (all 6/4 crimes) and still count on the "but the extra deadeye has so much synergy" and keep it worse then any other factions 4ps but make it "playable"!!!

I don't like that idea because you would be drastically reducing the removal potential for waylay in combination with swordmaster. The removal potential already sucks. There are 4p cards in sy that synergize with other cards and play for 7 to 9 points. The self poison fisstech with roland, mutant maker with jacques etc. Waylay and circle of life as they are at 4p wouldnt be broken

 

[ya1]

3 body with 4 dmg for 5 plus elf synergy plus deadeye synergy plus possible ST special synergy = overtuned.

Waylay should be brought down to 4p. That's in line with other cards like Bowman.

 

[Anaeto]

3 body with 4 dmg for 5 plus elf synergy plus deadeye synergy plus possible ST special synergy = overtuned.

Waylay should be brought down to 4p. That's in line with other cards like Bowman.

It's either waylay remains as is and goes down to 4p. Circle of life deals 4 dmg and stay at 5p or remain as is and go down to 4p. This wouldn't be overtuned.

 

[Celadyl]

even at 4 provision waylay would be bad. like actually terrible. circle of life is different because it always buffs something in your hand and is a nature card.

Also since they buffed borsodi brothers. What's happening to etriel and murliega?

a question I've asked myself for a long time now.
when was the last time a ST card got a significant rework or buff? we get vrihedd officer being a bonded 6 for 4 (lol) while they make peaches a 4p engine that starts at 5 points with hoard.

 

[Barracuda88]

Basically, the card has no business being 5p. 4 removal is probably too much because it makes the condition very easy to meet. 4p is appropriate, though the merit of the card would still be questionable. It could also maybe be left at 5p and made to spawn and play the Neophytes instead of the deadeye.

 

[EduFerraz]

i dont agree too.

Down to 4 provision i agree.

 

[Anaeto]

even at 4 provision waylay would be bad. like actually terrible. circle of life is different because it always buffs something in your hand and is a nature card.

a question I've asked myself for a long time now.
when was the last time a ST card got a significant rework or buff? we get vrihedd officer being a bonded 6 for 4 (lol) while they make peaches a 4p engine that starts at 5 points with hoard.

Peaches buff but sword master doesnt have zeal. Compare bonded elves to bonded blindeyes. Before anyone comes with the different faction argument. They should ask themselves why syndicate is much better