We are returning to old gwent in a bad way

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This is not rant, but an analyse, so hear me out (jump to conclusion words if you don't want to read)

What was the reason behind homecoming? Create, and full tutors deck making all the matches the same

And now look at what we have now.

1.Call of forest went from a switch card to a brainless tutor, empowering Francesca to be a better Dana without set up requirement (while CDPR is claiming they "nerfed" Francesca so they can make stronger neutral specials)
2.Portal is still not nerfed, despite a tutor 2, 2 bodies and at least 8 point on the board and plus enabling strong mechnic set up with 12 provisions,
while the other thin 2 combo (witcher trio) was nerfed to 6 point 3 bodies with barely any interaction, while costing a whopping 24 provisions
3.The lack cluster of tutors got hyper thin back in a even worse state, and with hyper thinning many decks can bring a bunch of crappy 4 provision, enabling high provision cards without risking bad draw
4.Create was a hot topic then but was never truly the core problem, but still even today we have random effects that can affect the tide of battle with no skill required

And yet what was great in the old gwent, was never brought back. In fact, interesting mechnics are getting removed every patch while the new rework cards are made only to serve existing archetypes. So yes, we are going back to the archetype route, despite what Dev says.

And more and more the decks are going back into the "mind your business and build your little home don't mind your opponent". Fun interacting decks are never top tiered, prime example being:

1.Movement: it was fun and nice (tho wasn't too strong back in the day neither), when reach was still a thing they have the bonus to "nerf" the effect of opponent reach card on board, not completely destroy them but still good bonus. Now movement itself represent nearly no value unless your opponent has row-limited engine, in which case it will be a total deny like any other type of deny, since no other faction have strong movement, that moved card is pure dead.

2.Trap: It has one of the best interaction potential, yet never had enough power to be considered top tier

3.NG copycat deck, and many other decks required control bronze units: Was quite few patches back, require high understanding of current meta and play accordingly. Now they don't have enough firepower because no deck does unless you bring bombs, and this deck have no space for that, they were doing fine with NG control units, now they are unable to stop the overwhelming easy-living engines.

4.Bloodthirst: Do I really need to say? with all those buffing on engines it's basically impossible to get high bloodthirst number. SK is now dominant with self wounding (again, most of the time there is no stopping self wounding, only NG has enemy buffing and SK usually can finish the self wound the turn engine was played). Another example of "mind your own business" deck better than "think about your opponent" deck

5.Monster Dominance: Another missed oppertunity. dominance should have play a way larger role when fighting monster, yet dominance was never tier 1, the amount of set up required to make dominance useful is too big and monster never have enough to protect their engine, or supporting dominance mechnic, as of now there are way too many decks that can easily pop up taller units than the simple high str no ability monster units

Instead every patch we have broken meta (Foltest, DJ and now Francesca) as tier 1, "racist" deck as tier 2. The racist decks are all essentially the same, for example there is really no difference between lyrian arbalist, dwarven mercenary, elf sworddancer, and there are many other examples. Those "racist" decks don't have (or no longer have) their uniqueness (for example who called for Mahakam Maurauder change?? dwarven resilience was a thing and not overpowered at all), they are different card simply because there are different categories

Conclusion Words:
Among Chinese playerbase, we say that "the previous patch is always the better patch", which, except occasions of meta deck CDPR refuse to hotfix, is mostly true.
Every patch since homecoming, we are getting uncalled for generalizing rework for cards with unique ability, and stepping more and more back into the bad part of old gwent: tutors everywhere, return of archetype (and Dev rework cards to strengthen them specifically), same outcome everytime, no interaction escept bombing engine to win the game. At this rate we are going to need a second homecoming, or should I say, far from home, soon
 
I do like the thinning part, makes my game more strategic/tactical/whatever, even when I have BAD hand R1 and I lose it disastrously, with like 2 thinning plays I can actually fix this for R3 and obliterate OP than - had at least dozen games where OP just Esc+Enter 3 cards in R3 , despite being brutally dominated before that (even if you find Portal in R3 it can make a HUGE difference). Without said thinning - those games would be lost R1, something which I so HATED the last (almost a) year.

With thinning at least you have a fighting chance in cases like this. And I see it in streamers games all the time in decks that lack thinning - all the best cards at the bottom of the deck and the players are obliterated because of that. This is no fun at all - no matter if you are watching or play through it.
 
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4RM3D

Ex-moderator
I have to agree with Call of the Forest and Portal. CotF was a niche little card that had an unique and interesting interaction with certain cards and combos. Now, it's just a simple tutor card. I understand that the devs wanted to buff ST, but I would have rather seen the less viable cards being reworked. CotF was viable enough and didn't need a change.

Portal is a difficult case. When the card was first introduced, most 4p cards kinda blew. So, the purpose of Portal was mostly to thin, which is okay. However, with the reworks going on, 4p cards are actually becoming quite strong. So, slapping down two in the same turn can be overwhelming. I do like the way how Portal is designed, only targeting 4p cards, but it might be a bit too much now.
 
I agree with the tutor problem, there is a subtle balance between RNG and over-thinning, and we are about to lose it.

Portal has become a problem since the bronze rework. I'm using it in almost all my decks now. It should be shut down.
 
I agree with most of your analysis and some changes are really hard to understand (Call of the forrest, Marauder, Cerys). The game feels more streamlined after the latest patches.

The thing about archtypes is, that players called for it loudly. And decks like vampires, beasts or wild hunt just didn´t work because every card was/is connected to a different decktype. So what is the point of these categories if the cards don´t work when combined? A solution could be that you always have to combine archtypes. I guess there are already major and minor categories and the minor ones can support the main ones (like tactic spies or assimilate spies, deathwish vampires or deathwish beasts) but these are just some thougts.

Bloodthirst doesn´t feel that bad at the moment but I´m not playing competitively.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I agree with most of OP's points.

- Francesca really works as a straight up better Dana. Im using Dana atm because i've already done Francesca Mastery, and it sucks that there is a Leader that is simply directly better than another in the same faction, that should never happen.

- Portal is a tricky situation... it was fine before, but thanks to the powercreep on the last couple of updates, it has become too strong. Im using a meme deck with Calanthe, with Portal on all 3 rounds, with 12(!) 4 provision cards and guess what? Wins most times, sometimes even 2-0.

- The level of consistency that a card game should have is tricky, in my opinion Gwent has already surpassed that level and should tone it down a bit. And RNG shouldnt be completely erradicated, since it's one of the best elements to balance consistency.
 
Maybe Portal should get sort of the SK Totem treatment - give it Orders, so it will pull the cards on the next turn, if not destroyed. This way it will turn it into a risky card for one and make artifact destroyers a bit more viable (ha-ha).
 
(for example who called for Mahakam Maurauder change?? dwarven resilience was a thing and not overpowered at all), they are different card simply because there are different categories

Uh, I was happy for the change. Mauraders were horrible, I had no desire to use them and I never saw anyone else use them. At least they are good now and have a place in virtually all dwarf decks.
 
We were all complaining about the Witchers trio which was in every deck and it was finally nerfed to oblivion with 24 provisions for 6 points and the thinning of 2 cards. So, the gwent team agreed with the complaints about it and they decided to make portal, a 12 provisions card for 8 points (two 4p bronze engines) for the thinning of 2 cards. Oh wait...
 
We were all complaining about the Witchers trio which was in every deck and it was finally nerfed to oblivion with 24 provisions for 6 points and the thinning of 2 cards. So, the gwent team agreed with the complaints about it and they decided to make portal, a 12 provisions card for 8 points (two 4p bronze engines) for the thinning of 2 cards. Oh wait...

Endless cycle of nerfing and buffing.....

Power Creep, Power Creep, Power Creep.

Gwent development = Throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
The Witcher trio was everywhere when it was 12pt for 18 provisions, if i recall correctly. At that time, that was a lot, and there were no other decent thinning tools.

Then they nerfed them to 9 pts (3x3) and they were still used a lot. In my opinion, they were fine at that point, but CDPR went further and nerfed them to the point they're the worst combo in Gwent... I mean, i dont think i ever lost a game against a deck that uses this 2pt witcher trio, fortunately starter decks dont use them anymore.

And with the current powercreep, the 3x3 witcher trio or even the 3x4pt wouldnt even be too problematic compared to other cards, but once a CDPR nerfs a card so hard, it refuses to go back, and just leaves the card(s) unplayable forever *cof *cof Sihil *cof
 
My point with my previous post is that portal is the new witcher trio. If you decided that a neutral card (trio) is problematic because it's everywhere and thinning should be really, really expensive and then nerf it to the ground, you don't go and make a new and better one after some months. There is no logic here...
 
To me Hyperthin is the best sign that there are too consistant thinning methods atm. Portal + 2 4P-Cards + Roach and then Marching orders into Artorius to Imperia Brigade is just too much. Two combos that let you play 4 cards :oops:.
I don´t like these tutoring chains where one card pulls the other pulls the other ... That felt terrible after the midwinter patch and still does.
 
To me Hyperthin is the best sign that there are too consistant thinning methods atm. Portal + 2 4P-Cards + Roach and then Marching orders into Artorius to Imperia Brigade is just too much. Two combos that let you play 4 cards :oops:.
I don´t like these tutoring chains where one card pulls the other pulls the other ... That felt terrible after the midwinter patch and still does.
Thinning overall is toxic especially after the change of mulligans where all leaders have plenty. I believe thinning should be a max of 2 cards per turn, everything that allows more should be reworked. Otherwise you simply play your whole deck (or almost) every single game. Even back at the SK thinning meta, a lot of times your Skalds bricked, or you had to thin a useful cards (not a skirmisher/morg), so it had a huge price and was risky. Thinning nowadays is so much easier...25 cards, 16 draws and 6-7 mulli+epic thinning options? Com on...
What if they enforce a rule - for every 2 (thinning tag) cards you must add one extra card to your deck (so 25+1, +2 etc...) This way at least you won't play your whole deck every single game.
 
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To me Hyperthin is the best sign that there are too consistant thinning methods atm. Portal + 2 4P-Cards + Roach and then Marching orders into Artorius to Imperia Brigade is just too much. Two combos that let you play 4 cards :oops:.
I don´t like these tutoring chains where one card pulls the other pulls the other ... That felt terrible after the midwinter patch and still does.
You are right in a way. But the game was lacking thinning really severely. And I still prefer to have the option to thin my deck than to be stuck with all the s#itty cards in R3, cause the game decided they'll be at the very bottom of my deck.

Thus said - I can agree that the insta pull cards can be a bit too much. Remember in beta how many different types of thinning mechanics we had? NG had a card that was coming automatically first after two turns and of course Emissaries for the Spies Archetype, than the next turn; SK had the Shieldmaidens ("OUR SHIELDS ARE OUR RAMPARTS!" - I was sick of this :D ) and they were thinning only when you hid a damaged unit; MS had Nekkers and Arachas Drones; while ST had Elven Scouts that were actually a Spy Units at first, but were the only cards in the game that could pull a Special card out of your deck (like Thunder). Can't remember the NR ones of the top of my head, but you can go creative with the thinning cards.

I'd say Vigo is a good example, as it can provide you thinning but for a cost - you need to have just 3 types of Bronze Units or be forced to roll the dice every time you play him.

STILL better to have those thinning cards put in use, that to nerf them into oblivion like the aforementioned Witcher Trio.

I loved the consistency of my decks in Gwent and the Homecoming restriction was sickening to me.
 
STILL better to have those thinning cards put in use, that to nerf them into oblivion like the aforementioned Witcher Trio.

I absolutely agree and I hope they find a healthy way to bring the witchers back. It is a thin line between to much and to little thinning. Maybe it is enough to price portal a little up.
 
To me Hyperthin is the best sign that there are too consistant thinning methods atm. Portal + 2 4P-Cards + Roach and then Marching orders into Artorius to Imperia Brigade is just too much. Two combos that let you play 4 cards :oops:.
I don´t like these tutoring chains where one card pulls the other pulls the other ... That felt terrible after the midwinter patch and still does.

Thinning in old gwent was okay because with only gold silver bronze categories all of the cards need to mean something for the deck

The new gwent with provision was supposed to make you build your deck in a way that your deck should work well even if you have a less fortunate draw, thinning enable ppl to put high provision cards and crappy 4 provisions in deck once again because high provision cards can be played anyway without worrying drawing only low provision cards
 
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