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Weapon Degradation

+

Weapon Degradation

  • Yes

    Votes: 76 22.7%
  • No

    Votes: 88 26.3%
  • As long as weapons have good durability I'm ok

    Votes: 171 51.0%

  • Total voters
    335
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B

Bansai

Senior user
#41
Feb 15, 2015
Glad to see the thread has kicked off, don't forget to vote guys, it still may not be too late to show REDs our thoughts on the issue at hand.

@Dalladrion
My thoughts exactly, I'm fine with the system as long as the weapons have a good durability, @ploughmore was quite on point with this nekker example, that would make the system a huge chore instead of a good immersion mechanic.
 
E

EliHarel

Rookie
#42
Feb 15, 2015
kagannpwnz said:
Glad to see the thread has kicked off, don't forget to vote guys, it still may not be too late to show REDs our thoughts on the issue at hand.
Click to expand...
I think it is. The game is feature locked. Obviously that means not adding new things, but I also take it to mean no removal, either. I'm not sure.

Not that I mind votes. Not every poll must be about affecting the Reds.
 
I

ImPeakingIt

Rookie
#43
Feb 15, 2015
It makes sense to have to maintain your sword, they dont stay sharp forever especially when your mowing through hundreds of enemys. I like the idea, but having to travel to a blacksmith every time to get your sword sharpened seems like a nuisance. Anyone can carry a whetstone with them and sharpen a blade themselves, and this is the option i would prefer. Instead of whetstones simply giving +15 damage like in W2 have them be used to repair your blunt sword. When Geralt meditates by the fire have the option to use a whetstone to sharpen your sword, and show Geralt in the background sharpening his sword by the fire. That would be cool.
 
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T

TouPoutsou

Senior user
#44
Feb 15, 2015
I' ve hated this mechanic in every game i ever played, bar none. Plus i have yet to recover from the major pain in the ass in Dark Souls 2, where my weapons took double durability damage due to playing the game on 60 FPS. I do understand that people might want realism, making the game having deeper RPG elements, BUT sometimes these mechanics might be annoying. I mean look at alechmy. In this game apparently, as long as you have created a potion once, it magically refills when you meditate, as long as you have alcohol. Is this realistic? Hell no. Is it good? Possibly because it could make alchemy far more attractive, and worthy to invest than the previous game.

I am pretty sure that the whole thing with weapon degradation will only be an annoyance. Sort of like: Oh yeah, let me fast travel to a blacksmith and lose 3 mins of gameplay, and some propably insignificant amount of gold. If they want the mechanic as a gold sink, i respect that, but make it possible to repair the weapons ourselves by spending some gold.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#45
Feb 15, 2015
If it place it with coherence it could be good for the immersion. To make the game closer to the lore (Geralt icares very well his swords in books) without losing the CDPR's stamp is a great challenge.
I guess that if CDPR have added this sword degradation is because they thought how they would enjoy more the game AS GAMERS avoiding falling in the simplicity and boreing.

So, I'm not really worry. Why don't penlaty me if I use wrongly my swords?
 
Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
S

schinderhannes.999

Rookie
#46
Feb 15, 2015
I demand an auto-repair routine while meditating to be implemented.

If the alchemy system is to be graced with a similar feature it would be only fair if the weapon maintaining sub system gets the same treatment.
Because, you know, it's way too hard having to look after the condition of your weapon(s) all the freaking time.

Oh, and CDPRED, don't bother making it optional. Everybody would absolutely love having an auto-repair feature making your daily virtual in-game life much more stress-free.

Thanks.
 
V

Vigilance.492

Ex-moderator
#47
Feb 15, 2015
All comes down to the implementation. Could be a wonderful tick for immersion, as long as it doesn't just end up feeling like a total chore, although most example games prove it's extremely hard to implement without it feeling like that chore.

The Alchemy man inside me however is pretty frustrated at this. Seems like hypocritical design to trash something like potion re-brewing because it's annoying and stops people from wanting to experiment with the Alchemy system, but then adding some like weapon degradation which far more often than not in games just ends up feeling like a chore. Both affect Gameplay in pretty significant ways, however weapon degradation CANNOT be ignored, whereas Alchemy can, which only makes it seem even more ridiculous.
I guess both systems we're still waiting to hear the final verdict on how they are fully implemented and the flexibility they both have, but just based on what we know it seems extremely hypocritical and a massive design clash.
 
J

jnewhouse

Rookie
#48
Feb 15, 2015
I really like this idea and I just hope that weapons will have good durability. For me this makes the game more realistic.
 
Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
N

neoblade48

Rookie
#49
Feb 15, 2015
Kinley said:
We've known weapon degradation is in the game for like a year now, so it's not really news. As I said in the interviews thread, we don't know the details of the system, but I personally don't view it as such a big deal.

And I'm all for public polls, but it might be a bit late since the game is so close to release and is feature locked. :)
Click to expand...
Sadly I must have missed the early news as I am just now hearing about it. I will admit when a game is a few years out I only glance at articles as usually there is nothing very telling. I would be ok repairing a sword you just found in the mud. I just don't want to have to keep repairing one I am actively using. So if they have a degradation rate scale based on difficultly perhaps that is an easy out for an additional option/fix even if it is a day one patch for all the time strapped adults. If I am given any out on this at all... or even if some magical sword requires no repair (ooh found a unbreakable godly sword) that can be found periodical. I could tolerate it. But an off switch would be nice even if it were only announced to be added in a patch. As computer engineer I am aware that QA and testing is super painful. Without knowing what stages they are in on making tweaks on performance... or how degradation was implemented... I am just looking for a reason to still look forward to this game. Any news on a patch/option at some point in time to turn off degradation would give me reason to pre-order. Maybe that is just me hoping unrealistically... but I hope not.
 
Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
T

TheDeathRun

Rookie
#50
Feb 15, 2015
I went back to the 35-minute demo and took a look, since that's the only time we've ever had a glimpse of the inventory. Bearing in mind that the inventory is (according to previews) now different from back then (since it was a work-in-progress), I did notice that the version in the 35-minute demo had absolutely no indications of durability/degradation status. See below for one of the many swords that were briefly on display. This could have changed by now though.

EDIT: I somehow managed to miss the big hammer symbol. That's probably durability. Uh.

As for the hassle of repairing swords, I doubt CDPR are - for lack of a better word - stupid. Most features appear to have been thoroughly thought about before being implemented, all with the goal of bettering gameplay. Example: skill tree slots to increase the need for preparation before fighting. Of course, everyone has different preferences so every feature will be debatably fun or not, but my point is I'm sure CDPR has thought through their implemented features carefully and have good reasons for giving them the green light. Allow me, then, to speculate on the likeliest reasons for weapon degradation.

Weapon degradation is a gold sink. The Witcher 3 will span at least one hundred hours of gameplay, and some form of monetary loss is necessary to ensure nobody gets filthy rich twenty-five hours in. How much of a gold sink depends on CDPR. It could be a hefty sum for each repair, in which case durability must be high to spread out repairs. Conversely if it's a small sum for each repair, durability might not be so high. However, I'm willing to bet it's not a hefty sum. But this does not mean durability will be low. If weapon degradation acts as a gold sink for Geralt, it makes sense for other elements in the game to do so too - one of which is likely alchemy. I'm going to assume alcohol isn't lying in wait every twenty metres, waiting for Geralt to loot loot loot. One must likely buy alcohol and pretty often too, given the necessity of potions (let's not drag the supposed evil of no herb gathering into this though). The purchase of alcohol, in combination with gold paid for weapon degradation, means a nice gold sink without needing to decrease durability to compensate for small repair costs.

Of course, even if this logic is correct, the game must still be balanced to ensure we're not losing far too much or too little money, and that we don't have to make trips to the blacksmith too often. If we can chop through a decent number of monsters with our swords intact, then I think it'll be fine.

Additionally, repairs can possibly add to the idea of preparation before facing a boss. Swords are after all still functional if you choose to neglect repairing them; it'd just take longer to kill the Nekkers you bump into (therefore also increasing your chances of dying thanks to said Nekker, but that's your risk). But if you know you're going up against the Leshen and his posse, you'd be buying all the alcohol you can to brew all the potions you can, and you'd purposefully make a trip to the blacksmith to get your baby in tip-top shape before heading into the woods. The poor blacksmith gets some extra income too, instead of just wasting his pension on the junk you're selling and scrambling for your gold during the odd weapon forging. Once again though, it's a matter of how CDPR balances it.

Well that turned out longer than I intended. But if I were to sum it all up, all I can say is I think we currently know far too little to make a definitive judgement on whether the system is good or is the greatest abomination CDPR has ever birthed, just like the alchemy system. We simply won't be able to until we actually play and experience the system ourselves. For now, I choose to believe CDPR have thought very carefully about all the features they've implemented and come to the conclusion that these are their best possible incarnations. Whether this turns out true or not, come May 19 we'll know.
 

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Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
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C

Cyrex13.951

Senior user
#51
Feb 15, 2015
For me it's good idea, but I hope I don't need to fast travel in town often just to repair my swords! I hope that swords will have long durability, but when you parry blows from another sword or hit shields, then degradation can be higher.. But when you slice meat on monster with silver sword, there should be no degradation there, only fine blood dripping from my rune decorated silver sword.. :) :)
 
N

neoblade48

Rookie
#52
Feb 15, 2015
thedeathrun said:
I went back to the 35-minute demo and took a look, since that's the only time we've ever had a glimpse of the inventory. Bearing in mind that the inventory is (according to previews) now different from back then (since it was a work-in-progress), I did notice that the version in the 35-minute demo had absolutely no indications of durability/degradation status. See below for one of the many swords that were briefly on display. This could have changed by now though.

As for the hassle of repairing swords, I doubt CDPR are - for lack of a better word - stupid. Most features appear to have been thoroughly thought about before being implemented, all with the goal of bettering gameplay. Example: skill tree slots to increase the need for preparation before fighting. Of course, everyone has different preferences so every feature will be debatably fun or not, but my point is I'm sure CDPR has thought through their implemented features carefully and have good reasons for giving them the green light. Allow me, then, to speculate on the likeliest reasons for weapon degradation.

Weapon degradation is a gold sink. The Witcher 3 will span at least one hundred hours of gameplay, and some form of monetary loss is necessary to ensure nobody gets filthy rich twenty-five hours in. How much of a gold sink depends on CDPR. It could be a hefty sum for each repair, in which case durability must be high to spread out repairs. Conversely if it's a small sum for each repair, durability might not be so high. However, I'm willing to bet it's not a hefty sum. But this does not mean durability will be low. If weapon degradation acts as a gold sink for Geralt, it makes sense for other elements in the game to do so too - one of which is likely alchemy. I'm going to assume alcohol isn't lying in wait every twenty metres, waiting for Geralt to loot loot loot. One must likely buy alcohol and pretty often too, given the necessity of potions (let's not drag the supposed evil of no herb gathering into this though). The purchase of alcohol, in combination with gold paid for weapon degradation, means a nice gold sink without needing to decrease durability to compensate for small repair costs.

Of course, even if this logic is correct, the game must still be balanced to ensure we're not losing far too much or too little money, and that we don't have to make trips to the blacksmith too often. If we can chop through a decent number of monsters with our swords intact, then I think it'll be fine.

Additionally, repairs can possibly add to the idea of preparation before facing a boss. Swords are after all still functional if you choose to neglect repairing them; it'd just take longer to kill the Nekkers you bump into (therefore also increasing your chances of dying thanks to said Nekker, but that's your risk). But if you know you're going up against the Leshen and his posse, you'd be buying all the alcohol you can to brew all the potions you can, and you'd purposefully make a trip to the blacksmith to get your baby in tip-top shape before heading into the woods. The poor blacksmith gets some extra income too, instead of just wasting his pension on the junk you're selling and scrambling for your gold during the odd weapon forging. Once again though, it's a matter of how CDPR balances it.

Well that turned out longer than I intended. But if I were to sum it all up, all I can say is I think we currently know far too little to make a definitive judgement on whether the system is good or is the greatest abomination CDPR has ever birthed, just like the alchemy system. We simply won't be able to until we actually play and experience the system ourselves. For now, I choose to believe CDPR have thought very carefully about all the features they've implemented and come to the conclusion that these are their best possible incarnations. Whether this turns out true or not, come May 19 we'll know.
Click to expand...
On the long sword I see what looks like value at 40, weight at 2... would the hammer symbol not be durability at 98.3? Could be wrong... and hope I am wrong as it reminds me of the trash game play of Dead Island where every weapon was made of hard cheese. In terms of realism... real life stuff hold up better than any degradation system I have seen. But who knows maybe CD Projekt Red will be the first.
 
T

TheDeathRun

Rookie
#53
Feb 15, 2015
neoblade48 said:
On the long sword I see what looks like value at 40, weight at 2... would the hammer symbol not be durability at 98.3? Could be wrong... and hope I am wrong as it reminds me of the trash game play of Dead Island where every weapon was made of hard cheese. In terms of realism... real life stuff hold up better than any degradation system I have seen. But who knows maybe CD Projekt Red will be the first.
Click to expand...
Oh wow I can't believe I didn't notice the big hammer symbol of all things. Yes that's probably the durability, but it might have changed since then.
 
G

Giovanni1983

Forum veteran
#54
Feb 15, 2015
As i voted in the poll, as long as the weapons don't break after each fight like some games have done in the past, then i am ok with it. It's more realistic as well i guess if you have to repair your equipment.
 
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#55
Feb 15, 2015
@thedeathrun I agree that its best to wait and see how it fits into the larger picture. Its worth noting that the info dump we got came from guys who poked around without a CDPR rep to add context. Maybe there'll be whetstones or something that lets us maitenence our weapon on the go. Maybe durability factors into the crafting system where higher quality metal yields more durable weapons.
 
B

BroccoliSouP

Senior user
#56
Feb 15, 2015
It probabůy sucks. If you have rpg with pre done path, you can adjust weapon degradation in way so it enhances gameplay, like saving good weapon for stronger enemies and so on. In FC2(even though it was way too quick) it also worked because you just could not take rusty weapons from dead enemies without risking they betray you, also as your weapons were loosing durability in battle, it created nice tension in combat if your weapon got stuck or rocket flew randomly away instead of hitting target.

In open world game like this I do not clearly see reasoning behind this. It simply disallows from endless exploration because you have to go every few hours to town repair your stuff and then you can continue. I mean this is kind of stupid. They say in interviews that they do not want to restrict us and then they put this in game.

Also it is kind of nonsense to make pretty much infinite potions thingy and also they decided to put there perk system where you choose what skills from those you leveled are active-this is beign used in fps shooters for god sake. And then they put weapon durability there which is used in hc rpgs?

I do not say it is necessarily bad but to me it feels like it will punish these who like to explore everything and kill every single foe while those who just fly through the game will be unaffected and weapon durability will barely be factor for them.
 
G

Giovanni1983

Forum veteran
#57
Feb 15, 2015
broccolisoup said:
It probabůy sucks. If you have rpg with pre done path, you can adjust weapon degradation in way so it enhances gameplay, like saving good weapon for stronger enemies and so on. In FC2(even though it was way too quick) it also worked because you just could not take rusty weapons from dead enemies without risking they betray you, also as your weapons were loosing durability in battle, it created nice tension in combat if your weapon got stuck or rocket flew randomly away instead of hitting target.

In open world game like this I do not clearly see reasoning behind this. It simply disallows from endless exploration because you have to go every few hours to town repair your stuff and then you can continue. I mean this is kind of stupid. They say in interviews that they do not want to restrict us and then they put this in game.

Also it is kind of nonsense to make pretty much infinite potions thingy and also they decided to put there perk system where you choose what skills from those you leveled are active-this is beign used in fps shooters for god sake. And then they put weapon durability there which is used in hc rpgs?

I do not say it is necessarily bad but to me it feels like it will punish these who like to explore everything and kill every single foe while those who just fly through the game will be unaffected and weapon durability will barely be factor for them.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying but i wouldn't really worry about it. I'm sure they will have thought about ways not to restrict exploration by having to repair every hour. Easiest way is to have weapons last long so you dont have to keep your eyes on them.
Even if they havent taken care of it they will after they read this thread anyway :D
 
B

BroccoliSouP

Senior user
#58
Feb 15, 2015
Giorad said:
I see what you're saying but i wouldn't really worry about it. I'm sure they will have thought about ways not to restrict exploration by having to repair every hour. Easiest way is to have weapons last long so you dont have to keep your eyes on them.
Even if they havent taken care of it they will after they read this thread anyway :D
Click to expand...
If a weapon lasts longer than few hours, you will most likely find better sword by that time and in that case it is useless to implement this feature at all. If it won´t last long than they make your exploration painful because you have to go repair here and then and thus pretty much wasting your time. That is why I do not understand what was idea behind this.
 
gregski

gregski

Moderator
#59
Feb 15, 2015
I appreciate CDPR's ambition, but this "feature" is in the "unnecessary and potentially annoying" territory for me. While I would understand such mechanic being used in games like Dark Souls or Lords of the Fallen which main focus and driver is combat, I don't really see it in a story-driven RPG. Too much micro-management is bad.

If this is already locked to be in the game, it joins my list of "poor design decisions in TW3".
 
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K

KA1N3R

Rookie
#60
Feb 15, 2015
gregski said:
If this is already locked to be in the game, it joins my list of "poor design decisions in TW3".
Click to expand...
If thats offtopic, then ignore it, but I am really interested to hear what else is on that list.
 
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