weapon replica

+
The Militech Crusher finished ! Very close to the one ingame at the moment.
I can't believe I missed this the first, second and third time round...

...the one ingame at the moment.
In game. Now. Am I right in thinking that the Crusher SSG is already modeled and being used in the rest of the game development?

What are the chances of us getting to see a screen shot of the Crushers in game model?
 
I don't think you can ETE shotguns due to needing to be cased, ( shotgun rounds aren't metal-hulled), but that's a good question. ETE only for bolt, lever, semi auto, keep in mind. No Autoshotguns.
Shotguns do come with a wide variety of other ammo: HEAT, HEP, etc.

When the Crusher went to 12 ga, it became much better for the job. ETE and it goes to 6D6, which is fine.
 
I don't think you can ETE shotguns due to needing to be cased, ( shotgun rounds aren't metal-hulled), but that's a good question. ETE only for bolt, lever, semi auto, keep in mind. No Autoshotguns.
Shotguns do come with a wide variety of other ammo: HEAT, HEP, etc.

When the Crusher went to 12 ga, it became much better for the job. ETE and it goes to 6D6, which is fine.

Looking at Chrome 2, (page 50,) the specifics of the ETE adaptation are that it basically replaces the origional firing mechanism with a battery/igniter setup and the ammunition uses a new propellant. Shotguns using cased ammo are fine.

And as you said; bolt action, pump action, lever action and semi-auto shotguns only. No burst fire. No full auto.

The Tsunami Arms "Ragnarok", (@Pacific Rim,) is an ETE 12ga shotgun. Which is really confusing, because it's a full auto-shotgun...
 
Shotguns don't usually use metal-hulled cases, which I think is essential in ETE. Hyperpressure and all that.

The Ragnarok is..uhhh..advanced tech.

Cp2020 has lots of contradictions in their weapons. They revise and change the stats on one but leave them on another. Yay for GMs.
 
Shotguns don't usually use metal-hulled cases any more.
Fixed that for you.


There is nothing to stop metal hulls being used.
 
I know there's a few uncommon gauges that still use brass casing, but I couldn't find any manufacturers of brass casings for 20 ga.

Looking at Chrome 2, (page 50,) the specifics of the ETE adaptation are that it basically replaces the origional firing mechanism with a battery/igniter setup and the ammunition uses a new propellant. Shotguns using cased ammo are fine.
Given that the rounds are presumably using a more dynamic (read: explosive) propellant, brass casing makes sense. I'd imagine regular plastic shells would be decimated while still inside the breech, leading to jams.
 
Uhh...yeah. I'm not sure where you'd buy metal hulled shotgun rounds. Never seen 'em or heard of em. Waaay back they used to be brass, then paper now plastic. Even if you manufactured your own, I'm not sure they could handle the tolerances for ETE, whatever those are. High. I'm a few years out of the hand-loading game, but I imagine the ETE process is not simple and not home-brewed.

Which is maybe how Tsunami Arms can do it. Usually though, no ETE for shotguns.
 
...heh. I'm picturing a grimy machine shop, set up in the guts of an abandoned warehouse somewhere in the Combat Zone, where billet is being fed into autofacs, being lathed into metal shotgun hulls for this specific purpose... ^_^
 
Uhh...yeah. I'm not sure where you'd buy metal hulled shotgun rounds. Never seen 'em or heard of em. Waaay back they used to be brass, then paper now plastic. Even if you manufactured your own, I'm not sure they could handle the tolerances for ETE, whatever those are. High. I'm a few years out of the hand-loading game, but I imagine the ETE process is not simple and not home-brewed.

Which is maybe how Tsunami Arms can do it. Usually though, no ETE for shotguns.
Well, Remington make 12ga braass shells. In the world of 'Auto-CAD' machines and all sorts of other devices, I think making some metal tubing would not be all that difficult.

How much more propellant, roughly, would it take to double the muzzle velocity of a round?

This is an area I have no real knowledge of. I understand how various types of firearms operate and how their characteristics affect trajectory and grouping. I understand the effects of projectiles once they reach their destination. I don't know about proportions of propellant and how much they will affect the energy behind a projectile.

...heh. I'm picturing a grimy machine shop, set up in the guts of an abandoned warehouse somewhere in the Combat Zone, where billet is being fed into autofacs, being lathed into metal shotgun hulls for this specific purpose... ^_^

That's the image I have for my characters accomodation...
 
How much more propellant, roughly, would it take to double the muzzle velocity of a round?

This is an area I have no real knowledge of. I understand how various types of firearms operate and how their characteristics affect trajectory and grouping. I understand the effects of projectiles once they reach their destination. I don't know about proportions of propellant and how much they will affect the energy behind a projectile.
I don't think it's just a matter of the *amount* of gunpowder. Presumably, all ETE rounds are the same size as standard rounds. So, the propellant would have to detonate and expand in a more violent manner than standard gunpowder. At least, that's how I've always interpreted the ETE description; as far as I understand it (and as far as my fuzzy memory allows; can't be arsed to look it up right now,) ETE rounds use a different type of propellant than gunpowder.
 
I don't think it's just a matter of the *amount* of gunpowder. Presumably, all ETE rounds are the same size as standard rounds. So, the propellant would have to detonate and expand in a more violent manner than standard gunpowder. At least, that's how I've always interpreted the ETE description; as far as I understand it (and as far as my fuzzy memory allows; can't be arsed to look it up right now,) ETE rounds use a different type of propellant than gunpowder.
ETE rounds replace the entire firing mechanism. No bolt, no trigger, nada. This is all replaced by an electrical ignition system and the ammunition, which is indeed the same size, has its propellant replaced with a binary liquid propellant mix. This mix, when ignited, provideds double the muzzel velocity of standard propellants.

The reason I was asking about the propellant quantities, was because I was unsure how these presures would affect casings. I know in times long past the Birmingham Proof House, (thats UK, not USA,) used to double load musket barrels before testing them. If the barrel withstood double the usual amount of powder going off inside it, it passed. Birmingham was once 'the' gunsmithing and proofing capital of the world...
*sigh*
 
You want double the power? Double the powder used. Or start employing different tricks to increase the pressure. The .357 Sig round takes a 9mm and necks it down in order to get .357 pressures from the same cartridge. But double the power would be a challenge. Faster igniting powders might work as well...Been years, I'd have to look this up.

Nice find on the brass 12 gauge rounds, by the way. Never seen those before, outside shotshells for pistols. I'd have to change my opinion to ETE for shotguns if a major manufacturer is producing brass hulls.

Edit: making cases is actually really not-easy. That's one thing handloaders do not play with, typically. Maybe at all? We'll make our own powder. We'll pour our own bullets. We'll even mess with primers. But the casing, well. You do not want to screw around with your cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading#Case_life_maximization

Ah, good times. I miss my little shed and the smell of powder and brass and lube.
 
Pffff. Why?

Now, let's talk about rimming.

Very important part of the job. If you don't rim properly you risk the opening being too tight. When that happens, you won't be able to fit in properly. This can be either a waste of time or, much later, a complete fizzle.

The opening has to be wide enough to accept the full circumference, but not so wide the base slips out. Patience and good hands are necessary at this juncture.

Not to worry, though, you can pick up a cheap tool for proper rimming. I've used mine for years with little failure.
 
You want double the power? Double the powder used. Or start employing different tricks to increase the pressure. The .357 Sig round takes a 9mm and necks it down in order to get .357 pressures from the same cartridge. But double the power would be a challenge. Faster igniting powders might work as well...Been years, I'd have to look this up.

Edit: making cases is actually really not-easy. That's one thing handloaders do not play with, typically. Maybe at all? We'll make our own powder. We'll pour our own bullets. We'll even mess with primers. But the casing, well. You do not want to screw around with your cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading#Case_life_maximization

Ah, good times. I miss my little shed and the smell of powder and brass and lube.
I was unsure if there was a difference in the propellant/pressure ratio. If double the propellant will produce double the pressure, then fair enough.

I imagine the main reason the majority would not make their own casings is because of quality control. But if everyone had machines that could produce identical parts to within a fraction of a percentage of tolerance levels, I don't think that would be such an issue. Right now that sort of machinary is only available on an industrial scale. In 2020 it's available on a much more personal level.

Pffff. Why?

Now, let's talk about rimming.

Very important part of the job. If you don't rim properly you risk the opening being too tight. When that happens, you won't be able to fit in properly. This can be either a waste of time or, much later, a complete fizzle.

The opening has to be wide enough to accept the full circumference, but not so wide the base slips out. Patience and good hands are necessary at this juncture.

Not to worry, though, you can pick up a cheap tool for proper rimming. I've used mine for years with little failure.
Am I right in thinking a good insertion technique is important, or can you just ram it in there?
 
Well, Chris, there is a difference in propellant/power ratios and ways to tweak those, as the necked-down Sig round shows. When you bottleneck a round, you force higher pressures from the same pressure load. There are associated issues, of course. Head seating, for example.

I don't make this up - loading is really this pornographic.

It's important to use lube so that the base slides in easily, after a thorough rimming. Use too much lube, though, and you can interfere with pressure results. Also the grains stick to the lube, which sucks. I hate grainy rims.

Making your own casings is just really risky. You probably didn't check the link out, but the parts of a case and the techniques required to combine them are very advanced. You do -not- want cracked or failed cases. In another post, I mention how a friend's eye was saved by his safety glasses when the round came apart.

Not for kids, kids.
 
Top Bottom