Weapon sights realism?

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Good observation, I personally like unrealistic aiming, it's faster, not calculating wher is the lazer, the sight, the bullet will loose altitude and strength, etc
I'd like to have the option to hld a key or triger to aim down the sight and release it, not press to aim an press to release
 
Good observation, I personally like unrealistic aiming, it's faster, not calculating wher is the lazer, the sight, the bullet will loose altitude and strength, etc
I'd like to have the option to hld a key or triger to aim down the sight and release it, not press to aim an press to release
Actually not what I'm talking about, but ok. :)
 
Um, you never hear car enthusiasts wish that cars in games are represented in a more realistic manner?? I can't tell if you're trolling or what... lmfao.
I'm strictly talking about RPG games here... and sure, you have plenty of driving mods for GTA, there's even a mod to make MAKO behave less like a total clusterfuck, but in general... no, I haven't observed a global outcry against the arcade driving style in RPG games as a whole.
And I don't know how difficult you think this is, when a independent mod maker working in his free time releasing a free mod gun for Fallout 4 has it behaving correctly. Not to mention many other games that already have it where it behaves accurately.
I never said it was or wasn't difficult. :shrug:

And who do you think these developers are? You think they are like you who are satisfied with "good enough, who cares?"??? If so, they wouldn't have made a game like The Witcher games... Sorry, but I believe they have higher standards than you and would not simply dismiss details just because kids that don't know better wouldn't notice...
Don't get ahead of yourself here... plus, you're completely wrong on my stance here. As for the great Witcher games, W1 was their premiere game and wasn't exactly perfect in every aspect. Great story, with lackluster mechanics, but definitely high above average for its time. W2 - great first half of the game, then they ran out of resources and had to rush the release, and as a side effect its last Act has almost no content and is minuscule in size, especially when compared to Acts 1 and 2... so again, not exactly perfect, but "good enough" for release. W3 was leaps and bounds better than the first two in every aspect, not to mention the ex-packs. But don't judge the entire Witcher series by its most recent, and well deserved, success, like they were all god's gifts to gaming.

That being said, I have nothing but complete trust in them, and I'm pretty sure that at its current state (provided the resources are there to spare) anything less than perfect isn't going to be acceptable for CDRP. Sure, they might overlook a thing or two here and there, but I'm sure they are going out of their way to make this as flawless as possible in every aspect that they can. However, if you want guns to be realistic in this game, then I guess you better start asking CDRP to take out those bullets that make 90 degree turns at every corner... I wouldn't exactly call that realistic ;)

If you watch the gameplay footage again, there are a lot of details that only "certain" people would notice. Like the small Trauma Team segment, their usage of medical terminology, and the fact that those guys had the correct shooting posture, and the way they moved their feet when they moved, especially the last guy that walked backwards into the vehicle, is all modeled correctly. Yes, people who know how to move and shoot move their feet differently, it's not like normal walking, most of your weight is always on the balls of your feet instead of the heals... So obviously the developers DO care about these little details even though you would have been happy with Counterstrike with a Cyberpunk setting... ;-)
Yup... that part of the demo from last year is pretty dope, and I agree with you 100% there. But again... it's realistic based upon what we perceive as realistic in our world, but might not necessarily translate one-for-one to a futuristic cyberpunk reality. The red dot in the scope that OP brought up? Yeah... unrealistic by our standards, but in the game world, that scope could be equipped with add-ons. Say for instance, as soon as you pull the weapon away from your face, a small HUD appears in the scope indicating bullet count still left in the clip. Basic add-on is only capable of a single colored dot (Green for full, Yellow for half full, and Red for low/empty). More advanced add-ons will show actual bullet count. Is it hard to imagine something like this possible in that universe? Not at all... in fact, I'd like for something like this to be present in the game.

What I'm saying is, make suggestions and voice your opinions... I'm sure there's someone from CDRP reading through all of this and taking notes, but don't jump into hasty conclusions based on 2 second long clip with "OMG, this is wrong!" ;)
 

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I'm always blown away by gun enthusiasts and their in-game expectations/requirements.

You never hear from people that race cars say "wow, I really hope this upcoming RPG video game will authentically simulate how cars behave" or from architects "this building's structure isn't optimal, no-one would design space like that" etc.

....and then there are gun enthusiasts.... "oh hey... this red dot is inaccurate!!! fix it!!111!!1"

lmao.

I mean, I get it.. but.. yeah

On that note, Car enthusiast do take their car games serious. As should games with guns that are at least trying to make them operate realistically.

My only issue with gameplay in gun centric games is how simplistic it actually is to use the guns. By this I mean I'd rather see a bit more button usage to operate the guns.

Example: One button for pulling the trigger, another for reloading. Yes they do this already but most games allow automatic reloads when the magazine is empty, when it should actually dry fire until you actually hit the reload button manually.

Also, I've always hated how in most shooters, if you have a full mag and shoot once, and reload you still have the same amount of spare ammo as if the remaining ammo in the mag just warped back into a brand new clip on your belt. Any spare ammo in a mag that's unused should be lost, making it more valuable. I've yet to play a game that treats ammo this important.

Tying these two mechanics together alone would make gunplay a dream to play for me. Manual reloads & disposable mag ammo if unused.
 
I'm strictly talking about RPG games here... and sure, you have plenty of driving mods for GTA, there's even a mod to make MAKO behave less like a total clusterfuck, but in general... no, I haven't observed a global outcry against the arcade driving style in RPG games as a whole.

I never said it was or wasn't difficult. :shrug:


Don't get ahead of yourself here... plus, you're completely wrong on my stance here. As for the great Witcher games, W1 was their premiere game and wasn't exactly perfect in every aspect. Great story, with lackluster mechanics, but definitely high above average for its time. W2 - great first half of the game, then they ran out of resources and had to rush the release, and as a side effect its last Act has almost no content and is minuscule in size, especially when compared to Acts 1 and 2... so again, not exactly perfect, but "good enough" for release. W3 was leaps and bounds better than the first two in every aspect, not to mention the ex-packs. But don't judge the entire Witcher series by its most recent, and well deserved, success, like they were all god's gifts to gaming.

That being said, I have nothing but complete trust in them, and I'm pretty sure that at its current state (provided the resources are there to spare) anything less than perfect isn't going to be acceptable for CDRP. Sure, they might overlook a thing or two here and there, but I'm sure they are going out of their way to make this as flawless as possible in every aspect that they can. However, if you want guns to be realistic in this game, then I guess you better start asking CDRP to take out those bullets that make 90 degree turns at every corner... I wouldn't exactly call that realistic ;)


Yup... that part of the demo from last year is pretty dope, and I agree with you 100% there. But again... it's realistic based upon what we perceive as realistic in our world, but might not necessarily translate one-for-one to a futuristic cyberpunk reality. The red dot in the scope that OP brought up? Yeah... unrealistic by our standards, but in the game world, that scope could be equipped with add-ons. Say for instance, as soon as you pull the weapon away from your face, a small HUD appears in the scope indicating bullet count still left in the clip. Basic add-on is only capable of a single colored dot (Green for full, Yellow for half full, and Red for low/empty). More advanced add-ons will show actual bullet count. Is it hard to imagine something like this possible in that universe? Not at all... in fact, I'd like for something like this to be present in the game.

What I'm saying is, make suggestions and voice your opinions... I'm sure there's someone from CDRP reading through all of this and taking notes, but don't jump into hasty conclusions based on 2 second long clip with "OMG, this is wrong!" ;)
I don't know what relevence the older games had when they didn't really have the man-power or resources. They obviously WANTED to make their games great in every aspect but was limited by the things you mentioned. None of that applies to their situation right now. And I doubt they "lack resources" to accurately depict a holographic sight when a mod-maker could do it on his own without any money at all.

And this has nothing to do with realism for the sake of realism. Bullets being able to make a turn is something that's not possible now, but doesn't mean it's unrealistic. It's simply something that isn't yet possible or easy to do with today's technology. A holographic sight that doesn't accurately project it's aiming reticle has no benefit or purpose, there is no research and development to be done to achieve this goal. If that dot is ever visible in a place where the rounds will not hit if you were to fire the firearm at that time, that means you cannot actually rely on that sight to accurately tell you where you should be aiming. It has nothing to do with whether this is in the future or not, there is never a situation where it would be desirable or a goal for technology to advance to, for the reticle to ever point to some where the gun isn't pointed. Whether the viewing window shows anything else like rounds left in the "clip," or the magazine since we don't use M1 Garands anymore and I doubt your character in this game would be using any weapon that still utilized a "clip," shouldn't make a difference to this, because I am only talking about IF that visible dot is the aiming reticle. Read my original comment, I did ask if that was the reticle or just a reflection or something. If it's something else, like what you're talking about, then my comment doesn't apply to it, simple as that. But if that IS the reticle, then it's wrong, no jumping to conclusions about it...

On that note, Car enthusiast do take their car games serious. As should games with guns that are at least trying to make them operate realistically.

My only issue with gameplay in gun centric games is how simplistic it actually is to use the guns. By this I mean I'd rather see a bit more button usage to operate the guns.

Example: One button for pulling the trigger, another for reloading. Yes they do this already but most games allow automatic reloads when the magazine is empty, when it should actually dry fire until you actually hit the reload button manually.

Also, I've always hated how in most shooters, if you have a full mag and shoot once, and reload you still have the same amount of spare ammo as if the remaining ammo in the mag just warped back into a brand new clip on your belt. Any spare ammo in a mag that's unused should be lost, making it more valuable. I've yet to play a game that treats ammo this important.

Tying these two mechanics together alone would make gunplay a dream to play for me. Manual reloads & disposable mag ammo if unused.
I agree with what you've said, but I think losing unused ammo is a bit too "hardcore" for this type of game. I'm not opposed to that, a lot of games more concerned about realism does model this accurately. And those games tend to have the option to save magazines that are not empty and they keep track of how many rounds are in each magazine so if you actually end up using up all of your full magazines and are not using those magazines you saved in the beginning, they will each have different ammo counts depending on how many was left in them.

The original Rainbow Six games made by Redstorm Entertainment before Ubisoft bought them out and started butching the Tom Clancy name with their moronic arcade games falsely advertising themselves as "tactical" shooters, did this well. A new game in Early Access on Steam called Ground Branch does this as well. In fact, Ground Branch has two different reloads and you have to activate them yourself, so nothing is automatic, like you either double tap on the reload key or press it once and depending on which you do, you either do an emergency reload where you drop the magazine out and reload so it's faster, or you do a tactical reload (or actually a retention reload as it is currently implemented, I am trying to convince their animator to do a proper tactical reload instead, lol) depending on whether you double press the reload key or just press it once. So it's pretty cool. If you accidentally do an emergency reload on a magazine with rounds left in it you can look down and pick it back up too, haha.

I think for a RPG like this, the extent to that kind of realism I would expect (again, not for myself, I would love full realism, but I know it might be too much and could scare away the normies...) is so that if you reload a weapon before it goes empty, your ammo count should be plus one since there's a round still in the chamber, no auto-reload like you've said (but your comment about dry firing is kind of wrong, since most firearms lock their bolts or slide open after the last round is fired, so there shouldn't be the sound of any hammer or striker falling like you usually hear in games or movies, it'd simply be the operator pressing the trigger and nothing happening.), obviously the reticle on the optic being projected properly like my original comment is about, and animations for reloads that focus on practicality and not style. Other than that I think more realistic aspects should be reserved for games that focus on that, like Ground Branch, in order not to scare away the casuals, lol.
 
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In terms of reload, I expect some shortcuts to be made. The reason: This is the future and not all guns are going to be standardized weapons we have today. There's going to be large variety of futuristic and exotic weapons such as energy weapons, lasers, grenade launchers, etc. The Pawel Sasko interview which I link below revealed there is option of a cannon integrated to your cyberarm. How do you reload a gun thats in your arm?

I fully suspect reloading to be at least certain degree automatic. Although I would personally prefer it to be a button, so instead of being stuck in reload animation I could choose to switch weapons instead. (Like action movie heroes sometimes drop guns instead of reloading and draw a new one)

 
In terms of reload, I expect some shortcuts to be made. The reason: This is the future and not all guns are going to be standardized weapons we have today. There's going to be large variety of futuristic and exotic weapons such as energy weapons, lasers, grenade launchers, etc. The Pawel Sasko interview which I link below revealed there is option of a cannon integrated to your cyberarm. How do you reload a gun thats in your arm?

I fully suspect reloading to be at least certain degree automatic. Although I would personally prefer it to be a button, so instead of being stuck in reload animation I could choose to switch weapons instead. (Like action movie heroes sometimes drop guns instead of reloading and draw a new one)

No offense to you and I'm not simply trying to go against anything, but I kind of find the whole "this is the future..." argument to be somewhat of a cop-out when it comes to discussions like this. Again, not specific to your argument, what you're saying about energy weapons or a weapon inside your arm obviously open up other discussions besides what we traditional recognize as a "reload," but simply being "in the future" doesn't mean that probably directions in the advancement of technology and what is still physically required to happen within the confines of science and physics doesn't automatically get thrown out of the window. And we do see that there are plenty of firearms in the game that still use the standard physical projectile fired from a casing model as we currently use, so current rules should still apply with at least those weapons. So like if you chamber a round into a firearm and then reload it with a full magazine, even in the future that round in the chamber shouldn't magically disappear so you should have the full mag count plus one more round in the chamber at your disposal...

Same thing when it comes to my original discussion about weapon optics. Just because it's "the future" doesn't mean that the logical purpose of having a reticle in an optic that accurately points to where your gun is actually pointing to shouldn't change. Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you, just making a statement about the whole "this is the future" disclaimer put before a reply to a discussion topic.
 
Ok, Im going to elaborate what I mean by my earlier post: Its a question of dev resources, and how many standard weapons there are compared to exotic ones (no normal reload).

If there is enough of exotic weapons in comparison to normal ones the devs might opt for a game system that is more universal across those weapons instead of handling every single weapon individually.

I'm not sure if this actually makes sense right now since I'm not a morning person and brain is not at 100%
 
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Ok, Im going to elaborate what I mean by my earlier post: Its a question of dev resources, and how many standard weapons there are compared to exotic ones (no normal reload).

If there is enough of exotic weapons in comparison to normal ones the devs might opt for a game system that is more universal across those weapons instead of handling every single weapon individually.

I'm not sure if this actually makes sense right now since I'm not a morning person and brain is not at 100%
I get what you're trying to say, but for a developer that is hand making every part of the city instead of procedurally generating any of it, I don't think they would take such a shortcut. At the very least, they would limit it to like 2-3 different animations where each would work across multiple firearms that use a similar system. But even then from the gameplay footage we've seen it looks like every weapon will have their own animation sets...


Exactly, thank you. I think several people didn't understand what I was talking about. Notice in the top screenshot when the point of aim isn't within the player's view through the optic's window, you don't see the reticle...
 

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In terms of reload, I expect some shortcuts to be made. The reason: This is the future and not all guns are going to be standardized weapons we have today. There's going to be large variety of futuristic and exotic weapons such as energy weapons, lasers, grenade launchers, etc. The Pawel Sasko interview which I link below revealed there is option of a cannon integrated to your cyberarm. How do you reload a gun thats in your arm?

I fully suspect reloading to be at least certain degree automatic. Although I would personally prefer it to be a button, so instead of being stuck in reload animation I could choose to switch weapons instead. (Like action movie heroes sometimes drop guns instead of reloading and draw a new one)


I've thought about this as well, because all weapons operate different. But in terms of having to manage the weapon during combat adds to the level of immersive mechanics. It doesn't have to be on a difficult level of aggravation.

The Last of Us does this well. As you're in a gunfight, shooting and you run out of ammo, the gun wont fire until you hit a button to reload yourself, no other way. It adds to the intense battles in a gunfight for sure.

It's a feature I like, but not expecting it one way or another in 2077.
 
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In the latest gameplay reveal video, I see the red dot is still portrayed in the same way. Wonder if any devs can give any insight into if this is planned to be fixed before release?
 

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Cyberpunk is one of those games that everyone will be waiting for and I really hope that it will be good. It is made by the same guys that made Witcher and that is one of the best games ever so I think that Cyberpunk will be awesome. There are some games with really realistic weapons and gameplay and honestly it doesn't have to be that realistic for a game to be good. Nothing about shooting in Red Dead Redemption game is realistic and it is still an awesome game. If you want realistic you should go hunting or go to the shooting range. I go hunting a lot and I really like my new smart hunting scope which makes me a good hunter.
 
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