Weekly Poll 11/26/18 - Perks!

[Sardukhar]

Perks! Perquisites, where the word comes from! Look it up!

Unlike skills, which give you an idea how good you are at something on a fairly arbitrarily determined scale relative to others, Perks represent specific abilities tied to those skills. Not just chop vegetables gooder, but chop vegetables with each hand! And Dual Veging II - Chop With Double Speed. Veging III - Fork Chopping! Veging IV - No Hands Chopping!

Man, I want Veging IV right now. Totally make meal prep super easy, especially with Veging I-III. Are you kidding? Dual wield, twice as fast, and not only no knife needed, but not even hands? Sweet!

Some games have perks tied to character levels, some have perks tied to skills levels, some mix them! Some perks are whole new abilities and some are boosts to certain areas.

So I thought I'd explain a bit why I put in a choice for perks only with cyber/tech and drugs. In short, it's because every other game with perks already has skill/stat/birthmark perks. That's the norm. Having red hair means you can get angry faster or being smaller makes you agile.

Those are fine, but they aren't Cyberpunk, particularly. I thought it might be nice to have a particular Cyberpunk flavour.


Was gonna include Respecs, but I think we'll do a Skills/Perks II poll and include that as well as a couple other questions. We are only allowed 10 poll choices.

List of Polls to date: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/collected-weekly-polls-thread.10984601/

 

[Rawls]

3, 6, 7, 10.

I think perk points should be earned via "leveling up" but some should be gated by skill level. I like it when perks have a variety of impacts, some resulting in new specific actions, some in new dialogues, some in how easy certain actions are, and etc. I definitely think there should be a lore justification for perks, and that NPCs should be able to get perks (whether player assigned or not)

 

[LDashNK]

1, 4, 5, 7, 10

For me personally "7. All perks should have a cyber/tech/drug reason for existing." is extremly important. Immersion is what they should aim for.

 

[BaalNergal]

Yay! You're following my suggested poll sequence!

I wouldn't mind a perk or two that was totally useless for anything other than silliness or cosmetic purposes, as long as it had a storyline reason for existing. Like, cosmetic cyberware.

 

[Suhiira]

Perks are a very difficult subject. Look at Fallout 4, they essentially replaced skills; because without the associated perks the skills themselves were pretty lackluster, many to the point of being near useless. Other times perks, and the synergy between them, becomes central to a game. Pick the right ones and breeze thru, pick the wrong and the game becomes nearly impossible. Do perks augment skills and abilities, or do they become them?

Many expect perks to grant essentially superhuman abilities ... you may now wall run. Many are damned annoyed when they only give a minor boost to something ... +5% shotgun accuracy. Many times they're nonsensical ... +10% weapon damage.

Can perks be done well? Of course. Are they usually, not even remotely.
Maybe CDPR can do them well and show me for a fool for being concerned.
But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Poison19]

I voted for 4, 7, 9, 10

4, 7 and 9 because i hate perks which gives +numbers to your abilities, i found it very lazy and boring way to expand character's development tree. I prefer perks to be more unique. And also i doesn't like much getting perks via leveling, because it often turns into +10 damage ( :cautious: ) perks, which i hate. So cyber/tech/drug is perfect way to get perks for me.

And 10, yea, some fairness to the game, i don't want to be a unique superman, especially in cyberpunk world.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yay! You're following my suggested poll sequence!

I regret all my life choices.

Just for that, Romance is now delayed.

 

[BabalKabak]

4, 7, 9, 10 too ^^

Ditto, if the perks serve nothing else than stats boost, it's not interesting.

Voted 10 but I'm not in favour of 100% of perks being linked to cyber stuff though ; I'd prefer some of them to have a natural origin, you could pick up one during the character creation, the rest of them being available through various methods (depending on which one), always in a way that makes sense.

I'm against selecting perks while levelling. I mean, where would you learn that ? But I know it's a point of view, because you could almost learn perks in a "Perks vending machine" and learning stuff the Matrix way... (not sexy but not totally inaccurate). I prefer learning new perks through experience, could it be from practice at something (ex: athletics leads to unlocking acrobatic moves ; aiming while shooting leads to unlock the sniper breathing move, etc...), or even more realistic (yet tedious) meet a special NPC that gives you advice and lecture about that perk you want, thus unlocking the right to practice at it until you finally master the perk.

 

[VeldrinMaven]

I am not a friend of perks at all (because 99% of games do not do it right imho). The less perks the better. If perks I would prefer only very few perks but high quality designed and animated perks that give you a new ability which should never be overpowered and should be designed with tactical options in mind without deleting other tactical options (without making you overpowred but gives tactical depth instead!)

Perks should not boost your stats. I hope this game will be based on player's personal skill instead of character leveling stuff.

A well designed perk is in my opinion for example the tactical barrier of the character Maven from Ghost in the Shell Assault online.

A tactical barrier (that is just high enough that you can hide behind if you are crouch stance only) with cooldown that you can plant on the ground and you can see through but your enemies can not see through, but they can shoot through it and when they do they can see you a bit (distorted) – if you are behind. Not overpowered. It is just an example from a PVP game. I have no example of good PVE/singleplayer game perks at the moment.

On the other side many Perks like in Fallout 3 or newer are just increasing your stats and making the game boring. Some games then make it so that you can only headshot kill with shotgun if you have a perk. I do not like such grindy things. That is an cheap excusion for lazy game design.

I hope Cyberpunk will be playerskill based and not rely on character level skill too much.


If perks it should be that you have to choose from a very limited number of perks. you can not use all of them. you can switch them but not midfight. maybe it eats up capacity and you have to think which one you take and how many capacity a perk needs which one you choose to go with and you let them install by doctor, and the doctor can uninstall them as well and install other perks if you wanna change it. Also i think some perks that are stronger than others must have downsizes. some could give you tactical options, some could give you convenience, some are without a direct benefit and just "cosmetic".

I am against selecting perks by leveling (i am against leveling at all). You should buy it from a doctor and/or get the opportunity to purchase one for free via storyline (perhaps).

sorry for my messed up english, a bit rusty.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

3, 5 and 10.

I thought about 7, but I don't think limiting perks to cyber, tech and drugs is a good idea. Some people might just have a stat/skill/idea based quirk naturally, that has nothing to do with extrenal aid like cyber or drugs.

Perks should be gated by both, character level and skill level. But also, you should be able to gain certain perks via certain actions/activities. I don't like perks as access keys to abilities to talents that should come naturally via the skill anyway, so some form of subtlety there would be a good idea.

I don't know about the word "dramatic" in 5. "Interesting" sounds better. Doesn't need to be dramatic, just fun to play with.

And yeah, NPC's should also play by the same rules as the player.

 

[Sardukhar]

So I thought I'd explain a bit why I put it cyber tech and drugs. In short, it's because every other game with perks already has skill/stat/birthmark perks. That's the norm. Having red hair means you can get angry faster or being smaller makes you agile.

Those are fine, but they aren't Cyberpunk, particularly. I thought it might be nice to have a particular Cyberpunk flavour.

 

[Rawls]

Poor "you can only get perks with XP". So lonely.

 

[BaalNergal]

Poor "you can only get perks with XP". So lonely.

Yeah. That is almost as unpopular as leaving me alone with America's nuclear launch codes and a list of coordinates in Australia.

 

[KyoShinda]

3, 5 and 10.
Perks should be gated by both, character level and skill level. But also, you should be able to gain certain perks via certain actions/activities. I don't like perks as access keys to abilities to talents that should come naturally via the skill anyway, so some form of subtlety there would be a good idea.

And yeah, NPC's should also play by the same rules as the player.

I agree with perks being unlocked by actions and activities. I still like them being unlocked through skill progression though.

Perks, the way I think of it, are really just special abilities that come from familiarity with a task. The two ways they should be given are:
1) doing something so long you come up with a new way to do it (skill lvl)
2) showing how adept you are in an activity (challenges/achievements).

It would be like unlocking street sign hacking after 2 hours of hacking (being able to figure something out based on a foundation of knowledge) combined with unlocking short wall runs by jumping between 5 skyscrapers in a row without falling to your death (an epiphany?). Not the best example but I hope you get what I mean. The challenge perks would be stylized to what class you are.

Birds originally developed wings in order to keep themselves pushed against a steep object in order to run up it. They unlocked the 'run up trees' perk by escaping predators for their life 5 times in a row and unlocked flight by a high skill level in using their wings frequently.

 

[BaalNergal]

Birds originally developed wings in order to keep themselves pushed against a steep object in order to run up it. They unlocked the 'run up trees' perk by escaping predators for their life 5 times in a row and unlocked flight by a high skill level in using their wings frequently.

Considering the oldest ones sometimes had wingspans of 36 feet, I'm kinda questioning if this is the actual evolutionary path taken...

I agree with the rest of what you said, though.

 

[Matchst1ckk]

3, 7, 9, and 10 -- Especially 7 and 9

The whole thing about getting upgrades and enhancements from ripperdocs can be a huge player with perks. Obviously, certain upgrades will grant new abilities (as we saw in the demo). The best perks will come with the best upgrades. But too many upgrades will cost you your humanity, thus garnering consequence to attaining more and more perks and abilities, which should have you thinking twice before going after certain perks.

As for 10, that would be a fun game changer; I hope they can pull it off!

 

[Suhiira]

The whole thing about getting upgrades and enhancements from ripperdocs can be a huge player with perks.

Is cyberware a "perk" in CP2077?

One might argue it is. You (at least sometimes) have to select between one or another, you can't have both. Cyberware tends to give you abilities you never had before.

So what's the difference, in terms of a games "character enhancement" options between them???

 

[Matchst1ckk]

Is cyberware a "perk" in CP2077?

One might argue it is. You (at least sometimes) have to select between one or another, you can't have both. Cyberware tends to give you abilities you never had before.

I think cyberware can be a perk. They would fit in OP's description here; minus skills for hardware, though.

Perks represent specific abilities tied to those skills.

Perks being tied to skill and levels are well and good, but if there's a game where you could tie them to your tech, this would be the one, yeah?

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

I voted 2.
I didn't vote for the other parts as I consider if something should be doable it should be doable with skills only, so I'm not a big fan of perks.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Is cyberware a "perk" in CP2077?

God i hope not.

Cyberware need to be his own thing, in many games you get perks, but more then half are bad or useless, Fallout 4 is best example of that.

And for vote i put 2, 3, and 10.