Weekly Poll 11/26/18 - Perks!

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Perks?


  • Total voters
    102
The game is not a shooter, according to CD Projekt Red.

Let's just hope CDPR holds on to that thought in all the best and clearest ways, mechanically and thematically. This just goes to show how much the demo and its reception has... blurred the vision of people looking forward to this game (or is it the other way around... has it cleared it??). And the cynic that I am, I don't really believe they end up being all too wrong about it. A story driven shooter with freeroam sim elements... like Far Cry -- that's how it always tends go. Bleh.

As for the rest... I'll let you people tackle the "what's an RPG" topic this time around.
 
The game is not a shooter, according to CD Projekt Red. So your words are in conflict with the developers themselves. It might have shooting combat (which we still don't for sure - it seems likely they'll add or have already added stat-influenced combat of some kind, though still in real-time), but it is not a shooter by nature.

The devs can say what they want, but the game has shooter elements. Even if regarding the game as a shooter overall is mischaracterizing what the game is essentially about, the fact that shooter combat is clearly heavily present means that those portions of the game can rely quite heavily on the player's skill as a shooter, which is the only point I was trying to make by calling the game a shooter.

Uhm... That's categorically false. By all means, you can think that. But you could call literally any game on the planet an RPG if that's the only criteria you need. Is COD's singleplayer campaign an RPG? What about Battlefield? Maybe Mafia III, GTA V, or Red Dead Redemption 2?

It's clear what I, CDPR, and just about anybody else means when they say RPG - on the large scale, anyway. Stats, levels, character-centric gameplay, to some degree. We disagree on when the character should end and the player begins, but we can all mostly say there are a few core tenants of an RPG that are consistent.

Of course I'm hyperbolizing by saying "all."

I should have made this clear: I disagree with the gaming community's definition of an RPG. Defining an RPG by the old trappings of TTRPGs is missing the point imo. It wasn't about stats; it was about story and control. The only part of the focus on stats that I agree with is that the player character(s) had abilities that the player didn't, that needed to be modeled somehow, and that progressed. That was all part of the fun, but I think that while it was a good part that I would like to see in games, it actually isn't a necessary part of all RPGs. There are plenty of TTRPGs that exclude it to a large or even total degree.

That's why no matter how they give you control over numbers like money and damage, GTA, CoD, and Fortnite will never be RPGs. RPGs are, at their core, about interacting with a story in the role of a character, not spectating a story in a premade character's skin. The Witcher 3 actually barely qualified as an RPG to me (although it did).

Why not both? The injury system you mention is very similar to what was already in Cyberpunk 2020. I don't disagree that we should add more layers of complexity in the form of injury systems, or other mechanics that challenge the character (and, mentally, the player). But this doesn't need to be an all or nothing situation.

Yeah, I just meant basically that we should move on from the old trappings of RPGs and recognize them as actually peripheral to the RPG experience. As long as you have fun mechanics by which you get to do stuff as a character, the whole "stat, numbers, equipment" set of qualifications for being an RPG is actually met imo.
 
Choose your own story games can be fun, but there is a lack of character in them due to the stats actually being quite central in making the character who he is at any given time of the progressive curve. And as such, I can't really consider them as RPG's. There is more to (optimal) character developement than choosing what to say or whether you approach the given dilemma from left or right.
 
The devs can say what they want, but the game has shooter elements. Even if regarding the game as a shooter overall is mischaracterizing what the game is essentially about, the fact that shooter combat is clearly heavily present means that those portions of the game can rely quite heavily on the player's skill as a shooter, which is the only point I was trying to make by calling the game a shooter.

Warcraft 3 has elements of cRPGs, but that doesn't make Warcraft 3 a cRPG. Calling it such is also wildly misleading about the gameplay.

A lot of RPGs, going forward, are going to have shooter elements unless they focus purely on faux medieval-level civilizations (if they focused on true medieval-level civilizations, firearms would still be present; the handgun predates plate armor).

I should have made this clear: I disagree with the gaming community's definition of an RPG. Defining an RPG by the old trappings of TTRPGs is missing the point imo. It wasn't about stats; it was about story and control. The only part of the focus on stats that I agree with is that the player character(s) had abilities that the player didn't, that needed to be modeled somehow, and that progressed. That was all part of the fun, but I think that while it was a good part that I would like to see in games, it actually isn't a necessary part of all RPGs. There are plenty of TTRPGs that exclude it to a large or even total degree.

That's why no matter how they give you control over numbers like money and damage, GTA, CoD, and Fortnite will never be RPGs. RPGs are, at their core, about interacting with a story in the role of a character, not spectating a story in a premade character's skin. The Witcher 3 actually barely qualified as an RPG to me (although it did).

Then you are in for a rude awakening if you play any RPG on the market.

Whether we like it or not, disagreeing with a definition of a category does not change that definition; it only sets you up for a world of frustration when you find out nothing that gets put in that category meets the definition you prefer. Story and control? You have plenty of that in Life is Strange, which is not an RPG. Because story and control are not the primary defining characteristics of the category, and a good reason why the pure RPGs don't do as well as hybrids and those completely outside the category.

Yeah, I just meant basically that we should move on from the old trappings of RPGs and recognize them as actually peripheral to the RPG experience. As long as you have fun mechanics by which you get to do stuff as a character, the whole "stat, numbers, equipment" set of qualifications for being an RPG is actually met imo.

Which is going to create endless confusion when there's no difference between an RPG and an adventure game. And the game categories are already a massive, confusing mess without intentionally making it worse.
 
I'd like to see perks strictly related to augmentations: X-ray sight? you buy eys for that. Double jump? you buy legs. Less weapons' recoil? You buy hands/arms (or better weapons). Unlocking perks by leveling up (e.g. in TW3 and the vast majority of other RPGs) would destroy immersion.
 
The devs can say what they want, but the game has shooter elements. Even if regarding the game as a shooter overall is mischaracterizing what the game is essentially about, the fact that shooter combat is clearly heavily present means that those portions of the game can rely quite heavily on the player's skill as a shooter, which is the only point I was trying to make by calling the game a shooter.
Mere elements isn't sufficient to make a game a shooter.

It needs to be (almost entirely) based on player targeting skills and combat needs to be the primary focus (note - focus not merely part of) of the game ... then it's a shooter.
 
I only know that if the PC has perks, NPCs should have access to them as well. Other than that, I don't know what I'd like.
So, 10.
 
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