Weekly Poll 4/07/19 - Verticality.

[Sardukhar]

Aaaand up you go! But where?!

Understanding that we can't have everything we want ( I know!) you have 3 choices for what you want the most.

Rest of polls: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/collected-weekly-polls-thread.10984601/

 

[ReeseNE]

I am quite curious to see how exactly this will be implemented given it one of the core features of Night City. I went 3/5/7 as my top choices. Starting with #3 this makes complete sense as there should be certain modifications that enable to reach different locations normally not accessible that give you an 'edge' in a situation or to get loot. This is a nice alternative to other skill checks that would otherwise be required to access that area. For #5 this brings me back to Dishonored and being able to be creative and think outside the box to solve various situations. Lastly for #7 for the sake of difficulty and to keep us on our toes I would love to see enemies and NPC's also be able to use these tactics as well - a challenge is always welcome and we should expect the unexpected

 

[Draconifors]

Three choices? But... there are five options I really want to pick. Difficult choices on a Monday morning... sigh.

5, 7, and 8 it is, after several minutes of careful consideration. 5 was one I definitely wanted, because more options to deal with things is better.
I also wanted to continue what I've been voting in previous polls; if V has a mechanic like vertical movement available to her/him, then NPCs should also have that. Perhaps there could even be situations where the player thinks a fight can be avoided by going vertical, only to find out the NPCs can do the same and the fight simply takes place above street level instead.

1, 6, and 8 are all options I would have liked to choose, but in the end dropped 1 and 6 in favour of 8.
I took advantage of the fact that poll options are not exactly detailed sentences: Rooftops are not street level, so technically 8 could also include 1 since it's not specified. As for 6, technically using a door on street level is entering a building from the outside.

Lastly, I do have to mention that rather creative word you made up, @Sardukhar. Nice one!

 

[Sardukhar]

I took advantage of the fact that poll options are not exactly detailed sentences: Rooftops are not street level, so technically 8 could also include 1 since it's not specified. As for 6, technically using a door on street level is entering a building from the outside.

Impressive. You put way more thought into that than I did. I fear you across a courtroom.

 

[Snowflakez]

Impressive. You put way more thought into that than I did. I fear you across a courtroom.

Rawls is the one you should fear. Muff is maybe a good paralegal.

I went with 3, 5, and 6.

I'd also like to add that I really want flying cars. I know they aren't keen on committing to this yet (one way or the other, though so far it's clearly leaning "no"), but that would be pretty nice.

Stealing them should be difficult (good security systems, probably), and buying them should be extremely end-game, expensive stuff. And if you crash 'em, pay a large fraction of their cost to repair (and maybe it takes a few days).

#6 was a wee bit confusing, because as Muff said, it could technically apply to just walking through a door. But It's probably safe to assume you meant from higher up.

Remember that scene in the gameplay where TT lands on that balcony? That's a good example of an area a player could theoretically enter, provided CDPR's level designers allowed for it. It'd give some missions even more of a Deus Ex-y feel, which I'm all about.

 

[Sardukhar]

Rawls is the one you should fear. Muff is maybe a good paralegal.

I went with 3, 5, and 6.

I'd also like to add that I really want flying cars. I know they aren't keen on committing to this yet

No, they've been clear.

“You won’t be able to control flying cars but they will be used for missions for crucial things,” explained Pears, before clarifying that “the main way to get through will be on foot, cars, and bikes.”

https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/cyberpunk-2077-flying-cars/

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

1 = classic, potentially good for a sniper approach to some missions (I don't believe we'll have a lot of freedom in approaches to mission, maybe some scripted event). Of course we need some missions on rooftops to use the cyberpunk skyline at its best. It's a must have when you have such a verticality in city building, I'm quite sure the game designers include it in the game, level designing 101.

6 = potentially an immersive sim approach (unlikely, but it would be nice), but also seen in games like GTA 4 (the mission where you kill a guy in an hotel's attic) (8 is pretty much the same to me)

Spoiler

yep, my expectations are growing smaller with time

7 = gives more variety to gameplay, with enemies jumping (cyberware!) and taking position. Same for the player. (5 is similar)

I haven't chosen 3 because I believe that double-jumping/climbing is already related to cyberware, question is: do we get it by default or is it a choice?

 

[Rawls]

3, 5, 7. I think linking vertical movement to gear instead of skill makes a lot of sense ... maybe climbing speed or endurance could be a thing effected by stats, but I think gear should be more important. Adding verticality to the equation should definitely effect situational tactics both for the PC and NPCs. So I think using vertical space as a level and/or puzzle design component would definitely be a plus.

 

[EngryEngineer]

I'm glad I read the post before submitting my selection of everything except for #2. I ended up with 3, 5, & 7 because imo the reasons I want these features are: more options for freedom & problem solving, being able to interact with the game in less predictable ways is good for PC & NPC, & the character sheet should influence every part of play (though not necessarily be the end-all-be-all).

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Three choices is not enough for that one, but I'l go with 5/6/9.

 

[Snowflakez]

No, they've been clear.

“You won’t be able to control flying cars but they will be used for missions for crucial things,” explained Pears, before clarifying that “the main way to get through will be on foot, cars, and bikes.”

https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/cyberpunk-2077-flying-cars/

Still hope they change their mind, but it definitely doesn't seem likely.

That said, different devs have said different things when asked this question. One said "we don't know," Another says "no," another says "maybe," another says "For now no, but we're not sure.."

I'm just going to wait until the next round of interviews, when the game is in a more finished state, before I take anything as gospel at this point.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Still hope they change their mind, but it definitely doesn't seem likely.

IMHO they were/are trying to include flying vehicles in the game, but it's the first time they try to do something like that. They went from no vehicles at all in the first 2 games they made to a very buggy horse in their first open-world game (not really, 4 big areas) and then a very open-world game with traffic and driving cars/bike. Not only they need to write new scripts and physics, but with higher speed of movement streaming of assets becomes more difficult (remember pop in in all GTA games and how graphics automatially got worse when driving in watch dogs, with pedestrian's number being cut off every time you got in a car).

Flying vehicles are even worse to do, so for sure we'll have scripted events because are easy to control, maybe they'll manage (managed?) to do flying cars right and we'll have them in the game, but they don't want to give us false hopes. And that's a good thing, overhype always leads to shitstorms. Personally I'd rather have no flying cars at all than shitty ones.

And something tells me this posts will be moved somewhere else as usual (sorry, mods).

 

[Snowflakez]

IMHO they were/are trying to include flying vehicles in the game, but it's the first time they try to do something like that. They went from no vehicles at all in the first 2 games they made to a very buggy horse in their first open-world game (not really, 4 big areas) and then a very open-world game with traffic and driving cars/bike. Not only they need to write new scripts and physics, but with higher speed of movement streaming of assets becomes more difficult (remember pop in in all GTA games and how graphics automatially got worse when driving in watch dogs, with pedestrian's number being cut off every time you got in a car).

Flying vehicles are even worse to do, so for sure we'll have scripted events because are easy to control, maybe they'll manage (managed?) to do flying cars right and we'll have them in the game, but they don't want to give us false hopes. And that's a good thing, overhype always leads to shitstorms. Personally I'd rather have no flying cars at all than shitty ones.

And something tells me this posts will be moved somewhere else as usual (sorry, mods).

Well, it is directly related to verticality. It's a potential method of traversing the city's... vertical aspects. Literally scaling buildings seems like a more outlandish possibility than flying to the roofs, in my opinion. But we'll see if Sard agrees.

I agree with your assessment. I feel it's something they want to do, but as you said, don't want to give us false hopes. I too would rather have nothing (in terms of flying cars) than badly-implemented ones, although, one could argue that badly-implemented ones could possibly be fixed by modders (on PC, assuming there's any modding support) whereas non-existent ones can't really be added.

Still, that's just me playing devil's advocate.

 

[SigilFey]

4 and 6.

I think of it as something like actually seeing the monster in a horror flick. Once you see beast itself...the energy either dies or is entirely transformed.

Similarly, the idea of super-high-rises and the sheer verticality of NC needs to be used sparingly. Should we get to the roof tops? Surely! Should we experience the long ascent into some of these buildings? Yeah! Should we go through the experience of falling off of one of them? Absolutely!

Should it be 100% at will? No. The allure of the city will create the intensity. Standing on the street and feeling the weight looming over us. Getting a sense of vertigo as we stand on the dizzying heights of a building. Feeling the rush of diving from one balcony to another with 2 kilometers of open air beneath us. Once or twice.

If players can run up the side of any building like Altair or start going Just Cause at will...guess how long that allure will last.

 

[Guest 4211861]

Elevators would be just fine. This is not a spider-man sim.

 

[Has_Neyn]

I just want Assassin's Creed style of verticality, where you can climb almost anything, provided you have the right equipment.

 

[Snowflakez]

4 and 6.

I think of it as something like actually seeing the monster in a horror flick. Once you see beast itself...the energy either dies or is entirely transformed.

Similarly, the idea of super-high-rises and the sheer verticality of NC needs to be used sparingly. Should we get to the roof tops? Surely! Should we experience the long ascent into some of these buildings? Yeah! Should we go through the experience of falling off of one of them? Absolutely!

Should it be 100% at will? No. The allure of the city will create the intensity. Standing on the street and feeling the weight looming over us. Getting a sense of vertigo as we stand on the dizzying heights of a building. Feeling the rush of diving from one balcony to another with 2 kilometers of open air beneath us. Once or twice.

If players can run up the side of any building like Altair or start going Just Cause at will...guess how long that allure will last.

This is a fair point.

Generally, I'm in favor of more player freedom over less, but it's tough to argue with this.

However... People love parkour. There should be at least a few areas where players can repeatedly run between (smaller) rooftops and climb up walls (nothing too crazy), just for the sake of fun.

Think Watch Dogs, GTA 4 levels of "you can do it a bit" as opposed to Assassin's Creed, though.

 

[Garrison72]

A topic near and dear to my heart. I really hope there's an element of vertical exploration in the game. The ability to access roof tops could lead to cool scenarios where we scope out enemy strongholds, spy on them or snipe from a distance. I want to feel a little bit like Batman or James bond, where I use gadgets to reach unusual or hidden points on building exteriors. I know grappling hooks are way overdone in games, but maybe something like that so we can scale some exteriors.

 

[dextrv]

4 and 6.

I think of it as something like actually seeing the monster in a horror flick. Once you see beast itself...the energy either dies or is entirely transformed.

Similarly, the idea of super-high-rises and the sheer verticality of NC needs to be used sparingly. Should we get to the roof tops? Surely! Should we experience the long ascent into some of these buildings? Yeah! Should we go through the experience of falling off of one of them? Absolutely!

Should it be 100% at will? No. The allure of the city will create the intensity. Standing on the street and feeling the weight looming over us. Getting a sense of vertigo as we stand on the dizzying heights of a building. Feeling the rush of diving from one balcony to another with 2 kilometers of open air beneath us. Once or twice.

If players can run up the side of any building like Altair or start going Just Cause at will...guess how long that allure will last.

Yes!!! That's exactly how I feel verticatily should work. We should be able to explore the city and its buildings the way we want but in a way that feels challenging and rewarding, like, having the option to stealthy climb the outside of a building with your mantis blade and get safely to your target, but you'll have to overcome things like a heavy wind, the "sense of vertigo", low battery implants (maybe? idk if this is a good idea)...

I like Assassins Creed parkour style though and it kinda fits well on the game context (although you never feel rewarded nor challenged climbing the tallest building for example) but I don't think CP2077 should follow this path.

 

[lelxrv]

3, 4, 5 seem reasonable and possible.