Weekly Poll - 5/6/2019 - Using Cyberware

[Bloodartist]

Only 3 allowed, although
Cyberlimbs, enhanced sensory input, armor and weapons all go hand in hand for a combat cyborg.

Lets not forget good old augmented nervous system for improved reflexes, a staple in shadowrun combat borgs.

Post automatically merged: May 7, 2019

Lots of people don't. Always fun as a GM to "point out" the error in their thinking
Same problem with full borg conversions or even cyberlimbs.

Being something of a technonerd I tend to annoy players that don't consider both the benefits AND limitations of what they do.

And just as well, its not particularly difficult to shield components from an EMP in reality.
Phenomenon known as Faraday cage will protect electronic components from an EMP. What is needed is basically an enclosed box or a container made of conductive material, with the vulnerable components inside it. Cyberbodies (at least enclosed ones made from metal etc) will probably already provide this protection.

This is the same phenomenon which makes it pretty safe to be inside a car during a thunderstorm. Car's chassis will form a Faraday cage and prevent the lightning from entering the inside of the car.

 

[Cybunknymph]

EMP will make some kind of appearance, whether you can faraday cage the hell outta your gear is another story. I know that no one in the cyberpunk universe would go full cyborg and not take EMP into account. I would think that this far into the universe there is a balance where some people use EMP as weapons, but most gear is hardened to it to a degree. So some use BIGGA EMP, some add more hardened stats, use MOBETTA EMP, then add the hardest stats! ect.ect. Like all electronic things around have a varying degree of EMP protection and using an EMP may work on some things, maybe cheap gear, but not other things.

EMP is probably set up for some weapons, describes some pollution, and having protection from it in even a small percent is good in case of a (mini)nuke. I love the idea behind your awesome jacket giving you some protection from EMP.

It would be cool to be able to identify gear(by corp) on others then know if an amount of EMP would disrupt it for a bit or entirely. I just know that the cyberpunk universe is probably accustomed to EMP like it was just another case of acid rain.

 

[Suhiira]

Phenomenon known as Faraday cage will protect electronic components from an EMP.

Bulk and mass are a bit of an issue.
And the main reason cars work so well is the rubber tires. Try it with an old fashion steel wheeled farm tractor ... ZAP!

 

[Rawls]

Also a Faraday cage would make accessing the net wirelessly with any gear a bit challenging, which would be a serious inconvenience for sending/receiving calls, text messages, GPS, emails, etc etc. Of course you could put those components outside that cage ... but that would somewhat defeat it's purpose.

 

[CybrisPunk]

Also a Faraday cage would make accessing the net wirelessly with any gear a bit challenging, which would be a serious inconvenience for sending/receiving calls, text messages, GPS, emails, etc etc. Of course you could put those components outside that cage ... but that would somewhat defeat it's purpose.

When you want you can use the cage as an antenna

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Lack the "I want my body to stay pure so I won't use that".

 

[Rawls]

Lack the "I want my body to stay pure so I won't use that".

Because we know it's not an option, and there were too many other options to include stuff we know is out. Although "other" is there.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Because we know it's not an option, and there were too many other options to include stuff we know is out. Although "other" is there.

So it has been confirmed then?
Last time I saw things about it, they were not 100% there wouldn't be an option for that.
Such a shame...

 

[Snowflakez]

So it has been confirmed then?
Last time I saw things about it, they were not 100% there wouldn't be an option for that.
Such a shame...

Yes, they've confirmed that you will be forced to acquire cyberware from time to time.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

So it has been confirmed then?
Last time I saw things about it, they were not 100% there wouldn't be an option for that.
Such a shame...

in the demo V jacks her biomonitor (a cable coming from her wrist) in the bathtub girl's head, with a scripted scene. No options, she just does it. Same for when she plugs a shard (an SSD-like memory) in her head when talking with dex and when taking the robot. And HUD is present on screen, which we know comes from cyberware. 100% V will already have some basic cyberware by default at the beginning of the game, being "pure" won't even be possible at the very beginning.

Never heard CDPR saying you'll have the option not to have cyberware by the way.

 

[Rawls]

So it has been confirmed then?
Last time I saw things about it, they were not 100% there wouldn't be an option for that.
Such a shame...

They left a little wiggle room. Kyle Rowley said:

Some implants will be required (or you will have the option to choose between X, Y and Z) in order to progress but most are optional.

Note: Still subject to change etc etc.

and Lil said in a Frame by Frame

Even though cybernetic prosthetics were originally developed for practical and medical purposes, they’ve since become a matter of lifestyle choice. In 2077, cyberware has become as commonplace as tattoos and jewelry. The reasons for installing it are many and varied, including simple tech upgrades, combat enhancements, and even fashion statements. The possession of trendy cyberware has become an integral and defining part of Night City culture. Uniqueness is just another form of currency. To make it big, you need to look the part. Style is everything.

So they said it's still subject to change, but as of last time we heard, it was not an option to go without. I personally think plugs and scanners are probably going to be required.

 

[Cybunknymph]

I can imagine the game being a bit more difficult if you are trying to keep your humanity high, which may be a good thing, like a more fullfilling challenge somehow. Perhaps better rewards/items if you progress with less. Or certain areas can only be accessable by someone with little to no cyberware because it is saturated by an contant EMP. I would want someone like that on my team if certain things were at stake and the rest of the team couldn't go near an area. Do you think CDPR will include any benefits to staying as human as possible?

 

[Suhiira]

I can imagine the game being a bit more difficult if you are trying to keep your humanity high, which may be a good thing, like a more fullfilling challenge somehow.

Minor cyberware (plugs, monitors, an eye) aren't to much of a problem. It's when you start replacing multiple limbs, adding armor, or built-in weaponry that you start to run into problems.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

I can imagine the game being a bit more difficult if you are trying to keep your humanity high, which may be a good thing, like a more fullfilling challenge somehow. Perhaps better rewards/items if you progress with less. Or certain areas can only be accessable by someone with little to no cyberware because it is saturated by an contant EMP. I would want someone like that on my team if certain things were at stake and the rest of the team couldn't go near an area. Do you think CDPR will include any benefits to staying as human as possible?

Actually in the P&P it makes you better socially wise.

"Some implants will be required (or you will have the option to choose between X, Y and Z) in order to progress but most are optional.
Note: Still subject to change etc etc."

That's what I was refering to in my original post.

 

[Rawls]

That's what I was refering to in my original post.

Yeah I figured as much, but until we hear different, I'll presume it's still the last design we heard about it.

Also, if you think about it, designing every scripted interaction to account for either having plugs/scanner and not having them would be a lot of scene variety for a relatively small payoff. Like Stout couldn't plug in her lie detector, there would be no in game explanation for HUD things like quest markers, enemy levels, vulnerabilities etc, we wouldn't be able to check the biomonitor of the woman in the first scene and call in TT, most of the netrunner and techie skill trees would become marginally useful, etc etc. Going "pure" would have HUGE design limitations for interactive scene scripting, character progression, and gameplay generally.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

there would be no in game explanation for HUD things like quest markers, enemy levels, vulnerabilities etc, we wouldn't be able to check the biomonitor of the woman in the first scene and call in TT, most of the netrunner and techie skill trees would become marginally useful, etc etc.

Other games like Shadowrun or Infinity get well with AR/VR googles for those kind of things.

 

[Rawls]

Other games like Shadowrun or Infinity get well with AR/VR googles for those kind of things.

But those are totally different old school tabletop types of games.

Action RPGs are a whole different ball game by design necessity. Even with external gear to compensate for lack internal wares, it would have to change animations, dialogue, etc etc of the interactive scene system. And what if the character has neither the cyberware nor the gear? That would have to be an option, which would open up a third type of scene variables.

It's a much more efficient design system IMO to just say you have to have this limited amount of cyberware. Does that limit player agency a bit? Yes. Am I personally okay with it? Yes, because opportunity cost is a real ting in development, and every person dedicated to accommodating that design choice is some other system that gets that much less depth and polish. Which other system would it take away from ... I do not know. However, I do think the slight benefit to gameplay width offered by the choice would be vastly outweighed by development time spent accommodating it.

So yeah, I think requiring the player to have some cyberware is a reasonable design decision.

 

[EngryEngineer]

Each of my characters are going to have a different answer, but for my main (and if we had this IRL it would be me personally), my answer is 4, 7, & 9. First and foremost I need all the decking supplies, then being able to capture, enhance, & analyze all of my senses physical and net based is key, third is how awesome would it be to be able to physically manifest an accurate representation of your mental image though fashionware and the like.

 

[Cybunknymph]

^That character customization tho.

 

[Snowflakez]

But those are totally different old school tabletop types of games.

Action RPGs are a whole different ball game by design necessity. Even with external gear to compensate for lack internal wares, it would have to change animations, dialogue, etc etc of the interactive scene system. And what if the character has neither the cyberware nor the gear? That would have to be an option, which would open up a third type of scene variables.

It's a much more efficient design system IMO to just say you have to have this limited amount of cyberware. Does that limit player agency a bit? Yes. Am I personally okay with it? Yes, because opportunity cost is a real ting in development, and every person dedicated to accommodating that design choice is some other system that gets that much less depth and polish. Which other system would it take away from ... I do not know. However, I do think the slight benefit to gameplay width offered by the choice would be vastly outweighed by development time spent accommodating it.

So yeah, I think requiring the player to have some cyberware is a reasonable design decision.

I agree that some cyberware is necessary purely for the sake of storytelling - the scene with Dex in his car would not have worked if V didn't have a slot to slide the chip in. Dex may not even want to work with somebody that rejects cyberware, and now the story just ends, or has to move on without what is clearly a very key moment for V.

What some people are wanting from this game has never been done before in the history of video games. You can't have dozens of outcomes for every main mission, which caters to 50 different playstyles. The story would be broken into tiny pieces.

What you can do is try to give players some degree of noticeable freedom within the missions themselves, allowing for multiple GAMEPLAY paths to reach an end goal, and then consistently allow varied STORY choices near the end goal, like, do you leave the Maelstrom dudes alone? Do you even bother contacting Meredith Stout? Do you take the 50K for yourself? For gameplay, if you decide to steal it by "force", did you sneak through as much as possible or go for full-on combat? Maybe you hacked everyone instead?

No matter what, the end goal was to get the bot (I expect some missions to let you pursue different end goals, of course), but how you got there is what makes your playthrough unique and personal.

Having some amount of required cyberware is what paves the way for this blend of storytelling and more gameplay freedom - we can split hairs about what makes an RPG an RPG, what makes freedom freedom, etc. all we want, but at the end of the day, when compared strictly to CDPR's prior games (and, hell, even other modern games in this genre), the improvements are HUGE and noticeable. Even this early on.

CDPR needs time to build on this idea; let's see what 2078 looks like.