Weekly Poll - 9/27/2019 - Crime and Punishment

[Rawls]

So, sometimes, as an edgerunner, V might ... hypothetically ... maybe need to do things that wouldn't be strictly considered "legal" by the Night City Police Department. How do we want committing crimes to work? How about punishment for said crimes. Can choose up to three choices.

 

[BabalKabak]

Being chased to death by a dedicated ED-209 that can interrupt you in the middle of a mission, can break through walls like a friggin' tank and have infinite ammo and virtually no weak point. Oh wrong topic, I thought you asked what punishment can we reserve to people who play on a cracked version of CP77

Lol joking.

About the topic... Giving too much freedom to the player (Number 1 or 6) like letting your guy murdering in the open, do GTA stuff basically, can become a backlash that diminishes the immersion for the true quests. How can V be a trustful partner for jobs if the whole city know that V is a mass murderer ? Well we've seen some games like Yakuza separating the story (driven) and the side stuff (free) and I think it works well. But Yakuza series is taking place in a different genre and culture so could it work with CP77 ? I don't know.

My choice so far is 4 and 7. After what I don't have enough data to guess anything. How are the prison made of in CP77 ? Still concrete and steel cages, the old-school ? More like the movie Fortress (you could still escape, but less likely due to the control implants and other few technological improvement) ? Or totally controlled cryo-cells like in Demolition Man (where the prisoners don't stand a chance of escaping by themselves) ?

I think 4 and 7 together could help immersion and emphasizes on the narrative, roleplay. You could make things deliberately (accordingly to the context), and face the consequence. But even though you changed your mind when the police comes, you could still surrender and serve your time in prison, or pay the fine, etc. I say that because too many games just jump into the chase-and-kill part as soon as you do a wrong step, and you can't go back on being killed eventually because the game doesn't give you the tools to express it.

 

[Cyberway]

8 sounds like fun idea. Maybe 10 different quest and then it start to repeat, so basically you can commit a crime 10 times with different quest. Crimes what starts quests has never been done in game industry as far I know.

 

[Ambergeddon]

My V may not always keep it legal but will have a moral code. She'll probably be as "good" as one can be in the world of cyberpunk.

Anywhere from helping those in need to deescalating potentially violent situations to not killing helpless or surrendering characters.

I may play an evil character later down the road just to see how evil V can be but I always naturally gravitate to super goody two shoes characters.

 

[CyberBrett]

I intend to play with Morgan Blackhand in mind , try to do what i think is right . I have asked myself if i would spare Sasquastch

I voted 3 and 4 .

 

[DontEatMe]

Open world crime is a must for me. If I can't hack an atm for a quick buck, what good is my "degree" in netrunning?

And while I don't know that an overall wanted system makes sense, It would feel pretty bland if I could just keep robbing people forever in the same place and no one remembers my evil deeds the next day. I don't need the whole crowd to react, just the gangs/corpos/business I crashed a car into would be enough.

 

[LordSerion]

2, 3 and 10.

I will try to be moral, at least for the first time(s?). But I think I will try out a true chaotic run as well.

A while ago one of our journalists asked about taking on the maximum lawmen GTA style. They answered that there are 3 options: 1) Run. 2) Try to fight and then run. 3) Die. With the Psycho Squad it's just die.

 

[DontEatMe]

8 sounds like fun idea. Maybe 10 different quest and then it start to repeat, so basically you can commit a crime 10 times with different quest. Crimes what starts quests has never been done in game industry as far I know.

I really like this idea. I also think that minimizing the dialogue, or changing it up for repeats can reduce the feeling of gameyness in these kind of quests. Like you wind up in the same cell and you see your old prison buddy is still hanging around, but don't repeat the exact same conversations.

Or maybe they could just let you skip right to the end if you have already done the quest, since you already know the way out and no one cares enough to fix the escape tunnel.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

6, 7, 10.
I have a suspicion that the law is only there to kill you if you commit crimes.
But I would prefer a much more elaborate system with dynamic wanted levels that leave a permanent mark in your records (which has its own consequences, i.e. higher records result in police getting interested in you more easily and in bigger force) unless you perform bribery to the right people (if you have the skills for it), or data theft to erase what you’ve got (if you have the skills for it), and interactive cops that that might not be as law abiding as they seem. Parking tickets, fines on speeding and/or driving recklessly, nonlethal police interventions for assaulting pedestrians... That’s a lot to ask for, but it gives a direction to a more comprehensive experience.

And for an addenum... NOTHING like GTA. That’s just a simplistic parody.

 

[atomowyturysta]

Two things to think about when designing crime and punishment system:
1. When it's done Elder Scrolls style - it's bad.
2. When it's done GTA style - it's even worse.
Easy solution - come up with the third way.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

The poll won't accept my answer because I was going to pick all of the above except for #2, #3, #5 and #9.

I'd go with #1, #4 and #6. Anything should be fair game but consequences should exist. I prefer it if the player is barred from taking certain actions because of the resulting consequences. Not because they are blocked from attempting them.

If I could select more choices....

#7 would be a yes. Depending on the crime it would intuitively make sense for surrender to be an option. Obviously, if you start arbitrarily shooting people on the street it's probably off the table. If you get caught trying to pick a pocket or steal something, depending on what it is, it's another matter. Conversely, I wouldn't want #9 as blanket behavior. If you did something so severe you were marked for death for it then sure.

#8 because, why not? If CDPR is willing to go into that level of detail with the player committing crimes, by all means.

#10 because I'd prefer it if there wasn't a way to make consequences magically go away. Case and point, getting caught stealing then running away until the NPC's "forget" because you ran far enough away. A wanted or bounty system is an elegant way to prevent this behavior.

I did not select #2, #3 or #5 because I'd like to leave the finer details of the quest design up to the developers. If they wish to integrate "criminal activities" into the quest design, fine by me. If they want to present choices to the player as to whether they perform those activities or not with the quest design, again, fine by me.

 

[Charles83]

This poll I do not know if it is useful, mostly because the Cyberpunk universe is a dystopia, WITH MEGACORPS, some laws will not be your standard government laws to make society better, (example do not steal or do not commit murder) some of the laws will be the type of laws that protect corporations while leaving citizens hanging, "oh yeah you cannot commit murder unless you are an authorized Security force of an acredited megacorp", with this a whole bunch of thugs can commit as many murders as they can because they belong to a megacorp and they are not breaking the law, lets say that you fight against them now you are a criminal because those thugs are part of a megacorp and even thought you just defended yourself now you are a criminal, talking about crime and punishment in dystopias, is complicated and sometimes a bit futile, i hope the game is good and i really have no opinion about crime and punishment because it is not useful to discuss that when we talk about a dystopia because half the laws (maybe more) will be "bad laws" the kind of laws that created the dystopia in the first place.

 

[Suhiira]

4 & 8.

Being an Edgerunner is all about breaking the law after all. If what you did was strictly legal your client wouldn't need you, they'd hire a lawyer. That said, if you get caught there NEED to be consequences.

 

[Metropolice]

So, sometimes, as an edgerunner, V might ... hypothetically ... maybe need to do things that wouldn't be strictly considered "legal" by the Night City Police Department. How do we want committing crimes to work? How about punishment for said crimes. Can choose up to three choices.

My senses tingle.

Anyway,

to try to summarize my rough stance, I think that crime should be something you can in theory do at any time and I don't just mean run someone over if you are in a car or shoot someone. If there are a few 'criminal side activities' to earn a few things or eddies, that would be nice. And heck, I wouldn't even do this, I just think that the possibility (beyond random unspecific acts of violence for the sake of it) would be nice for the players, as some might prefer this. I don't want to necessarily be forced into crime via main quest all the time - if that's part of the main plot for a bit or limited scale, sure! But not constantly. It should largely be an optional route to take or something you can do in the city, but don't have to necessarily.

While prior news seem to indicate the opposite, I think it would be nice if you could actually see a rough wanted or surrender system. But interviews indicated that they won't really go for an in-depth system, implying if police is looking for you it will (always?) be a lethal response. That's just a guess though, still months away from release, based on some interview sentences I vaguely recall.

I understand if they don't want to or cannot add an in-depth law enforcement (including corpo cops) response system including jail time or break-out-of-prison 'quests' akin to Skyrim, Oblivion, etc. (but better). But at the same time I found it silly in some games that law enforcement goes for the lethal option for relatively minor things where non-lethal capture or responses, or just a ticket, would've been a more immersive or believable choice.

It doesn't have to force you into a jail or so and let you serve time or break out all the time, but non-lethal responses could be nice. And of course if you can be some sort of vigilante or "reserve cop", that would be even better. Not like you always have to be the one to commit crime - why not hunt that down?

 

[Mawnark]

3, 5, 8. I'd like to have it all, but I have a preference for side quests that involve organized crime. This is also why I want (optional) quests to happen after getting arrested. Without disparaging the 'break out of jail' quests, I'd rather have ones that show the influence of NC gangs in the prisons. It'd be nice to have side stories with the atmosphere of crime flicks and games like mafia 2.

 

[SPicyBadaSS]

With this, thinking that a bounty system would be cool, some mercs come after you in the middle of a quest mission and change a story, make an outcome/difficulty different, would love to have all sorts of optional crime, and that story missions should be able to be done however, whether legal or not, you could abide by the law so if you choose, not much else needs to be said or done. Just make the way things work make sense and be logically accurate to how people would react and the consequences in the Cyberpunk setting.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

With this, thinking that a bounty system would be cool, some mercs come after you in the middle of a quest mission and change a story

In Fallout: New Vegas, if you pissed off both, The Legion and the NCR, they would both send hitsquads after you. You might take a rest somewhere in the wasteland and wake up amidst combat, those hitsquads fighting each other.

That was pretty neat. And the cool thing about it was that it wasn’t a planned feature. It was just a random result of how the game was set up to play.

 

[RLKing1969]

I didn't vote as the choices, IMHO, doesn't accurately depict how crime and punishment works in the original Cyberpunk genre. Here's the score. First, laws in Cyberpunk, when the average city cops can/ will chose to enforce them (keep in mind, the corps basically run EVERYTHING in all but name.), are pretty draconian. Punishments range from imprisonment in braindance & fines to execution. More often than not, if a cop has to get off his butt to actually enforce the law and it's considered important enough, you can expect little mercy...A lot of cops would probably just shoot you in the head and avoid all of the paperwork. This isn't to say that there aren't good cops, it's just that their hands are tied in more than a few instances. To put it as simply as possible, unless someone's actions are going to upset the status quo or cause civil unrest, most police will get involved largely AFTER THE FACT. This shouldn't be taken as a fiat to just start randomly start shooting people in the face. If it looks like someone is going to cause major chaos, they will crush it with maximum force.

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2019

With this, thinking that a bounty system would be cool, some mercs come after you in the middle of a quest mission and change a story, make an outcome/difficulty different, would love to have all sorts of optional crime, and that story missions should be able to be done however, whether legal or not, you could abide by the law so if you choose, not much else needs to be said or done. Just make the way things work make sense and be logically accurate to how people would react and the consequences in the Cyberpunk setting.

In the original pnp, there is a bounty system and it's usually reserved for the "worst of the worst."

 

[Draconifors]

4, 7, and 8.

I have never seen 7 done thoroughly, which is a shame. 8 would add a lot for certain kinds of playthroughs.

4 is just an obvious pick to me; actions, especially things like committing crimes, need to have consequences. It also has a key wording "choice to commit crimes".

 

[Alfa1561]

6, 7, 10.

I love the idea of being able to get arrested, few games every do it (well). Alternatively, some stuff could just incur a fine instead.

If any of you have played Mafia 1 and Mafia 2, you'll remember that cops in those games would stop you for various things. A fist fight with someone would have cops break it up and issue you a fine. You could get arrested, but that was a game over state. You could also commit vehicle crimes like speeding which would prompt the cops to pull you over and cite you. In fact, even bumping into a cop or others with a cop around while on foot could prompt the cop to stop you, demand to see your ID and then warn you. One of my best memories in Mafia 2 was a timed mission where I had to race across the city to warn someone he was going to be killed. Part of the route included a long, straight road. Great for speed, but police patrol cars were common. You couldn't arrive at the mission objective with police in pursuit and the tight time schedule of the mission meant that there wasn't enough time to either A. drive the speed limit the whole time or B. outrun the pursuing cops before you arrive. The only way I could complete it was to race there, keep a keen eye out for cops, slow down when I saw them and speed up once out of sight. A similar experience in 2077 would add a lot of depth to the game. Maybe even an enhancement like a built-in cop radar you can get to give you a heads up before you give them an excuse to fill their ticket quota . I dont expect this level of detail, but at the same time it would be awesome to see some or all!

^ Cops in Mafia 2 issuing a ticket. You can see the one star wanted icon on the right. With one star, the cops would ticket you, check your ID or give you a warning (if you lacked the cash for the ticket). If you refused to pay, it escalated to 2 stars and they arrested you. However, in Mafia 2 you could always opt to A. fight the cops or B. bribe them to let you go. Similarly, stolen vehicles plates would be reported, meaning driving past a cop in a stolen car got you 2 stars. You could have the stolen plates changed at a garage or bribe the cops via phonecall to remove the effect on the plates. Similarly, if you escaped the cops you'd still be wanted and if you didn't bribe them via phone after or change your clothes, meaning patrolling cops would recognise you and re-initiate pursuit. Cops would even react to crimes by civilian NPCs too. If an NPC vehicle broke a traffic law, cops would pull it over and issue a ticket. If an NPC vehicle causes a vehicle crash or other crime, the cops would arrest them (though the civilian would always hand over a bribe and be let go, as they didnt have the feature for the cops to actually arrest and take them away like GTA IV does).

^The little icons for you being wanted by cops, the vehicle you're in being wanted or the 1 star wanted level for ID check/citation.

Not saying all this detail would be in 2077, but some of it would be pretty neat. I'd like arrests to have a little more weight than other games (maybe on par with RDR2? Police station interior etc). The original 2020 sourcebook for the NCPD did mention a Traffic Division for traffic enforcement

While I see where others come from in regards to cops just shooting you dead, the Street Kid clip we saw with the NCPD had Jackie taunt the cops, referring to spending a few weeks in prison before being released because the prisons are full, or something to that effect. Given they were stealing a car in that instance, I feel that implies the NCPD and other cops *do* arrest people frequently and don't just shoot every criminal they chase. The 2020 sourcebooks implied that too, and I'm sure the privately owned prisons would appreciate the cops not killing every criminal on the street.

In short, though, I definitely would like to see some depth to crime and punishment. Arrests, maybe fines, a police station etc. The mention of the bounty system in the Night City Wire episode was interesting, made me wonder if we can show up at an NCPD station to pay off our bounty and stop the hunters coming after us.