Weekly Poll - 9/27/2019 - Crime and Punishment

[Metropolice]

-snip-

I get where you are coming from, but this depth or level of simulation I usually saw in "GTA-like games" ... or online communities with mods, where cops are players. Or singleplayer mods (see the famous GTA cop mods letting you play as one).

While I'm an advocate for police related stuff and content on either side (being one or helping or being a crook or recipient of police measures that is more complex than 'bam you dead') I also won't expect this level of detail.

Simply because let us be honest. We can all imagine things we'd like to see in a game. But the implementation of them takes resources and time, time itself being a resource. I'm no coding expert but you would spend some or a notable amount of time for features that would in the bigger picture be trivial of sorts. Or they wouldn't be, but you just have more pressing matters you need to focus on.

Long story short, perhaps in follow up games they can try this to some extend. Of course I don't talk about a cop simulator (would be nice tho) but some solid representation of crime and law that can also affect the player on a lower level. Because in the end and the bigger picture, if this was in a cyberpunk game it would yet be that little attention to detail making it all so great.

Alternatively, solid modding support - that IS worth time investment in my opinion, for all not just some 'niche' that a part might like and another might not care about. With solid modding support you could implement your own solutions to this as community. But also that takes time. Main thing is to get this game out and present it as master piece before we can worry about certain features.

Patience, friends. With a good "lobby" and advertising and some time, we can opt for features post release or the next games. If the demand is there and seems plausible (is sold well by us) it might sway devs and company into that direction and try features not tried before due to whatever reason.

 

[Alfa1561]

Another detail that came from Mafia 2 (and Mafia 3 to an extent) that would fit in with the "consequences" of our actions would be crime scenes at shops or such. In Mafia 2, if you robbed a store/restaurant and killed the shopkeep, then came back, you'd find cops leaving and crime scene tape over the doors.

This served to making robberies harder, especially of gun stores. You have no choice but to knock out or kill gun store owners to rob them, as they resist with guns. But the police wont be long showing up. You can't just run away, hide, wait for the cops to fail to find you and return. When you come back, the store is taped off. If you enter, you'll find all the cash and guns you could have stolen have been taken away as evidence.

There was a similar feature for when you didnt kill the shopkeep. Come back to the scene after you robbed the place and the heat dies down, you'll find two cops inside speaking to the shopkeep about the robbery. Get too close and the shopkeeper will recognise you, new clothes or not, and a wanted level will renew!

The crime scene investigation stuff occurred in Mafia 3 too, with this sign appearing and cops staying behind to examine bodies after you shot a store up.

This feature existed in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, too. If for any reason a shopkeeper dies (you kill them, they get caught in crossfire etc) then cops will respond. Leave the area and come back, you'll find police tape over the door and an armoured cop guarding the spot. The inside of the store also turns into a restricted area, netting you a hostile response if spotted trespassing by Prague's law enforcers.

Overall, these added another neat level of immersion, making your actions feel like they have weight in the world, and consequences too. In a game like Cyberpunk, I could see it existing too perhaps. Shoot up an establishment, it turns into a crime scene and is closed for a while, so we can't use it. Might also upset any factions affiliated with the store. In the 48 minute gameplay reveal we saw cops using holographs to recreate a crime scene, as well as a coroner van to collect bodies. It would be neat to see the crime scene props, cops and vehicles appear dynamically as a response to our actions in the world!

 

[Alfa1561]

Just recently I was watching videos on various games and saw the prison system for Star Citizen. While I doubt such a system would be in CP2077, nor practical for it, I do hope we'll see a city jail or state prison in the game somewhat! The prison in SC made me think of prisons from CP2020 lore: mostly automated, some guards, plenty of turrets. Given all the gang influences around Night City, I'm sure a jail or prison would be a really interesting location to explore, however we end up there. Whether it's a story piece or whether there is some form of "arrest" feature in the game's law/justice system, perhaps a little like Skyrim in which you go to jail and wake up in a cell, with the option to either try break out and grab your stuff or sleep in the bed and serve your sentence, with a bit of a penalty to level gain etc based on the duration of the sentence.

In my dream land, the ideal would be to have the latter, but perhaps a little more open prison. Wouldn't mind walking around the common areas of the jail seeing other inmates and the gang insignia around before trying any breakouts! It would add a lot more depth to crime and punishment. I'd wager V could only get arrested for smaller scale crimes e.g. thefts, car theft, serious assault, with more serious violent crimes giving little or no opportunity to surrender immediately after the fact. Jackie also mentions when the cops are nabbing them for car theft that they'll just be in jail until trial and at worst get a couple months, if not early release since theres "standing room only" at "el bote" (a jail or prison I presume). Could be a good reason V never sees any serious jail time. Maybe we can also bail ourselves out if we've got the cash to do so.

Perhaps good relationships with certain people could even have him bailed out at the cop shop or jail right away. Cough cough corporations...

 

[Alfa1561]

Was mucking around in Mafia 3 today and took a few screenshots of what I talked about previously when I mentioned cops investigating stores you rob.

In this image, you can just about see the cop bending down and writing notes while speaking to the gas station shopkeeper. If you rob a location but don't harm anyone inside, then return, you'll find this, with the doors to the premises locked (can be broken into, though). If you leave and return again, the cops will be gone but the employee may still be there, albeit the store is closed.

This image shows a cop doing similar, but at a store where the owner was knocked out. The same occurs if they die. A cop investigates and takes notes, while another cop (not pictured) stands at the front door. Sometimes, NPCs will try visit the store and the cop at the door will tell them to leave, doing an animation to hold his hand up and move them along.

Should you leave again and come back later, the store will be empty and locked and you'll see this:

A crime scene sign on a wall or window by the door indicating that the store is a crime scene, rendering the store empty and inactive for a while.

 

[Marie_PureArts]

6, 7, 10 !

 

[Alfa1561]

Stuff like this definitely making me hopeful for seeing some consequence/response to our or other characters actions in the world, as I talked about earlier with crime scenes etc!

I remembered recently that Sleeping Dogs had some of that. After certain story events, locations in the game would be crime scenes. E.g. after your corrupt police inspector superior tricks you into fabricating a shootout and then has patrol cops respond to it, if you come back you'll see a cordoned off crime scene with forensics officers and the like. After the wedding mission, the entire venue will be cordoned off with barriers, cops, cop cars, forensics, bodybags etc. It always gave the story a bit more tie to the open world. Made some events actually feel like they happened.

Games like Watchdogs really disappointed in that regard, especially Watchdogs 1. One of the big missions involved infiltrating a sex slavery trafficking ring in Chicago and at the end you run from the location and call in an emergency to the cops at the warehouse the slavery auction takes place to bust them all. It's a big mission in it all, yet theres no impact. No cop cars go flying past to it, and if you immediately turn around and return theres no evidence of whats happened. You cant enter, theres no cops outside, nothing. Felt like despite the big things you do, you dont leave an impact on the game world. CP2077 definitely looks the total opposite.


Also, anyone else notice that every NCPD cop's badge says "detective" on it? I wonder if it's a placeholder. I noticed it on the cops from the life path gameplay as well as today's Night City Wire episode. Even the "sheriff" from the Nomad path has a gold NCPD badge that says "detective."

 

[Metropolice]

Possible placeholder, a minor oversight possibly gone by release, perhaps also we because it was pointed out by now.

Either way, I strongly am in favor of this and while I don't know to what level we might see this not just random but based on our actions, it was at least hinted at in years old statements something akin to you being able to damage areas or see damage to areas through other groups and people and later see something like repair attempts or the damage being fixed, even.

I don't know if this is outdated because it had to be cut or toned down, but if we get this level of detail to at least some level, then it would speak in favor of world simulation and attention to detail.

 

[Alfa1561]

Replaying Mafia 2: Definitive Edition and took a few screenshots from interactions with the cops:

Gun store crime scene after the owner was knocked out.

Police pulling player over for speeding.

Accepting the fine and paying it.

A civilian being arrested by cops for hitting their patrol car...

...and the civilian bribing his way out.

Handing over ID after bumping into a cop

Cops giving a civilian a warning for getting into a fist fight

One of my favourite things was the fact that the same laws applied to you also applied to NPCs. Bait an NPC into punching you? Cops would stop them. Watch an NPC smash into a parked car or another vehicle? Cops would write them a ticket. NPC runs a civilian down/hits a cop car/etc? Cops arrest the NPC (and then the NPC bribes their way out, same as you). It was neat to see NPCs treated the same as you. Felt more immersive because you weren't being singled out and given special, tougher treatment.

 

[Bloodartist]

Just recently I was watching videos on various games and saw the prison system for Star Citizen. While I doubt such a system would be in CP2077, nor practical for it, I do hope we'll see a city jail or state prison in the game somewhat!

I learned some time ago, that there is a functional prison in Red dead redemption 2 online, and you can end up there, although its quite hard to pull it off due to the way the bounty system works. Basically it requires you to have a bounty, and then have PLAYER capture you alive (bound with lasso) and deliver you to the law. Then, if you didn't want to pay off your bounty, you could work it out in the prison apparently for half hour.

This seems awesome! I will try to make it happen so I could see the inside of the prison, but it seems really difficult. Not only are there very few players who would hunt my bounty, even fewer still interested in trying to capture me alive. And if the NPC bounty hunters manage to kill me, it just deducts the bounty from my wallet and resets it. :/

 

[Metropolice]

you could work it out in the prison apparently for half hour.

I chuckled a bit because I had to think of Star Citizen's new prison system where you can be in prison for many hours, e.g. a video shows a crew doing crime, fail (get captured) and end up in prison. One guy got like 11 hours, another 9 hours.

What might sound shocking on first glance isn't - you can escape via a cave system or just work your sentence down notably by mining, so you have active options to cut your time short, if you ever get caught and put there.

Now I understand we cannot expect or aim for an in-depth prison system in Cyberpunk, but there's models out there that seem steep compared to "tiny" prison sentences. I don't mind either. While for some it seems like a hassle, I consider it part of gameplay to possibly end up in prison for hours. You get to shorten the sentence based on your actions, and you could simply argue: "Don't do crime ... or don't get caught"

 

[Alfa1561]

I chuckled a bit because I had to think of Star Citizen's new prison system where you can be in prison for many hours, e.g. a video shows a crew doing crime, fail (get captured) and end up in prison. One guy got like 11 hours, another 9 hours.

What might sound shocking on first glance isn't - you can escape via a cave system or just work your sentence down notably by mining, so you have active options to cut your time short, if you ever get caught and put there.

Now I understand we cannot expect or aim for an in-depth prison system in Cyberpunk, but there's models out there that seem steep compared to "tiny" prison sentences. I don't mind either. While for some it seems like a hassle, I consider it part of gameplay to possibly end up in prison for hours. You get to shorten the sentence based on your actions, and you could simply argue: "Don't do crime ... or don't get caught"

The prison system wouldn't need to be as complex as multiplayer games like RDR Online or Star Citizen, but would certainly add to the depth of the game to do it similar to Skyrim and RDR2, in which you end up in a cell in a jail or police station and can either break out or just do the time (since you can only get busted for more minor crimes, its always a short stint in a cell). I think the setting of a city jail, what with all the gangs that exist in Night City, would make for a very interesting location.

I just started playing Mafia: Definitive Edition, the remake of Mafia 1. Similar to Mafia 2, the cops respond to small crimes. Interestingly, though, they added a "police" difficulty option, with two options:
1. Normal: Cops respond to crimes that cause harm against others. Assault, theft, robbery, hit and run, murder, violence etc. Like GTA cops.
2. Simulation: Cops respond to minor crimes too. Running a red light, speeding, reckless driving, vehicle collisions etc. Cops will pull you over and issue a ticket for vehicle related crimes or for minor assaults. Running from them increases it to make them arrest you. Civilians will even report you for dangerous driving, like having near misses with pedestrians. They'll contact cops and an icon will denote where the cops are last aware you were located. Then they'll shop up, spot you and pull you over to issue a ticket for the vehicle violation. Really neat level of detail.

I'm sure officers of the NCPD aren't overly interested in traffic offences unless there's a traffic unit like the old 2020 Police sourcebook said there was, but some degree of "low level" police response would be nice, where the cops don't arrest you or blast you, but have to do something. I'm sure in the future of 2077, cops can issue e-citations that instantly deduct cash from your account after swiping your ID, or something to that degree! In the "world of cyberpunk" book, they had a picture of the NorCal/SoCal border with a sign indicating non-compliance would result in fines:

Lost Heaven Police Officer issuing Thomas Angelo a ticket for speeding.

Wanted icon when the cops want to give you a ticket.

LHPD Officer making an arrest for driving a stolen vehicle.

Wanted icon when the cops want to arrest you.

Also enjoyed missions/events where the world immediately reacts after the event and you can see it in real time. Another example from Mafia:

LHPD Cops on the scene of a car bombing moments after it happened. One cop keeping bystanders at by as the other inspects the scene.