Weekly Poll Question Friday Aug 24/2018: Cyberware Mental Cost to Character!

[Sardukhar]

They shouldn't be related unless there's some sort of brain augmentation that requires altering it profoundly.

All augmentations beyond the purely cosmetic ( and some injectable bioware ) require a nervous-system interface called a neuralware processor.

The main reason for empathy loss ( other than game balance) is that the future of Cyberpunk is super extra stressful. Crazy high poverty, mortality and a world that changes whenever you turnaround. Taking your arm and chopping off to replace it with a ( non necessary) metal one - and keep doing things like that to your legs, eyes, skin, etc - this, combined with a sense of depersonalization and emotional isolation, causes a person to go, well, a little crazy.

Keep in mind some of the causes of things like depression and anxiety are purely external - drugs, trauma, sleeplessness.
Cutting off your legs and putting mechanical legs on instead seems kind of reasonable as a stressor.

 

[Toshiino]

I don't know if his has been mentioned or not by other fans (or if it's in the original CB20), but I think it would be cool to have rampage mode where the machine takes over your body in a severely damaged state, how the machine part of your body infiltrate the mind order to ensure it's survival, then after a limited amount of time it will get reverted.

Maybe make it as an option when you have enough body modification?

 

[AlexiaRevan]

they said they wouldn't let us go full crazy (unless they changed their mind?) , for shame .

I would have liked the option there . I played Geneforge Serie , and they had something similar . Drink from these canisters too much..and you go bonker and go hostile in situation where you could talk your way around . And it was fun . It make the player pay attention and be wary and if they wanna risk it..well..its a personal choice .

 

[CyberBobber]

All this Cyberpsychosis and Braindance is the cure right? Sounds like DLC to me. Yeah, too cool stuff to ignore for sure. Its mostly like gang-thing. Think we need another char for this topic. Or then give multiple chars to play like GTA does. Maybe Cyberpunk is too wide for one character to cover?

 

[Gun_Show]

I like how Shadowrun's earlier editions handled this (SR calls it becoming a cyberzombie). The more cyber you installed, the lower your Essence (i.e. Humanity) rating got. The lower your Essence, the more un-empathetic and un-sympathetic you became until, at 0.1 (the lowest it could go) you were basically totally alien, like Dr Manhattan. You cared about yourself and that was it.

As your Essence got lower-than-normal (a fuzzy concept not really defined and left up to individual GMs), people's reactions to you got progressively less positive. Basically, as you reached certain thresholds, people began reacting poorly to your combination of being physically and emotionally more machine than man.

You could never drop to 0.0 (i.e become a cyberzombie) and continue. If you ever did drop to 0.0 due to cyberware installation, you became an NPC.

In the SR system, you lost essence/humanity for installing cyberware, but not for upgrading, unless the upgrade had a higher cost, in which case, you paid the extra, the idea being that you've already lost that bit of your humanity be replacing your arm, so you wouldn't lose any more by replacing an older arm model with a newer, unless it was more invasive (i.e. cost more essence).

I think something along these lines would work well in Cyberpunk. I would hate to see the player not know his Humanity stat, just as I would be against having cyberware's Humanity cost hidden, even partially. Sure, it might be more realistic, but it damages player agency too much.

 

[gogmeister777]

If it's gonna change anything, I want people's perceptions of V to be altered and to have Bloodlines, Malkavian-esque type responses become available. Not Malkavian in tone, just in how starkly different they are to the default dialogue choices and what we'd consider 'normal' human reactions.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

I believe the implementation will be more or less the same as in Shadowrun games - humanity acts as limited "points" that limit how much cyber-ware you can install and that's it. This system puts a cap on your character power level and abilities, so you have to pick and chose which cyber-ware you want and have to make another play-through to experience different build.

NPC reactions would have to be tied not to your humanity, but how visible your cyber-ware is then. We do not know if you can get limb replacements etc that significantly change how your character looks. If that would the case then NPCs should be able to comment on that.

Your own choices and actions changing because of how much cybered you are is dicey area, if its too negative then people will just power-game to avoid it interfering with the gameplay or mod it out, making development investment in this system pointless. So it can be only fluff or lead to different quest outcomes, but not anything major.

 

[Skirlasvoud]

Fallout 2 had this really awesome system where the game and NPC's reactions to you, changed if you had a low-intelligence build, or were wearing enclave Power Armor. For the low-intelligence built, things would change radically, with entirely different dialogue trees, new quests and normal quests locked-out.

It'd be awesome if Cyberpunk 2077 could do something like that, but since cyber-augmentation already seems pretty normal in this world, I don't expect things to change too much, even if you've begun almost completely replacing your original body with augments. Maybe quests and relationships with gangs who are really into cyber-augmentation could open up, or vise-versa for humanist purists.


If Cyberpunk handles its stat system similarly to Fallout 2 (where point allocation is a real trade-off, with certain specs conferring tangible bonuses and weaknesses, unlike in FO4 and other modern games), then it'd be nice if cyberware would heavily influence that stat-sheet, or lead to certain augments excluding each other. Having to pick a certain build over another, would give a player's choices - even if they're just stat-based - a real feel of weight in the world.

V could load up with either a life-like eye-implant to give her more charisma and detect if others are lying, or an implant that looks alien and decreases her charisma, but gives her military grade targeting and is required for the best gun.

Quickly switching in and out of different builds, rather than sticking with a certain direction, could lead to this sense of alienating stress more than having lots of cyberware itself would. If Cyberware is my identity, but I keep switching between wanting to be super-charismatic playboy who is loved by all at upper-class parties one day, and a homicidal maniac who sprays down a dozen score lowly street thugs the other - all through the power of switching hardware - this could be more confusing and disorienting than sticking to just one identity. You might lose your own life's narrative and in confusion, start killing everyone at the upper-class party and try to befriend lowly street thugs instead.

I'm not expecting to see much in the way of cyber-psychosis though. Seems redundant, but there's real potential here.

 

[fridgeband]

So I'm going to try for a weekly poll question asking the community how we feel about as-revealed-so-far game aspects. If I forget on the Friday ( or maybe Monday - maybe that will be in this Poll), someone ping me and I'll do it the next day.

These questions are gonna be multiple answers allowed (at first, see how that goes), although you are fine to pick just one. They will follow a similar format and I can add or remove as you guys think they are not clear enough or missing something.

This is to get an idea what the community is thinking on some of these issues. First up, the Cyberpsychosis for the player question. Not complicated. As stated, CDPR is not - NOT- implementing Cyberpsychosis in it's Full On Crazy 2020 version. Too much loss of player agency. Now, the degree to which cyberware -does- affect your character is a good question.

Context: In Cyberpunk, if you put too much metal into your body, you (MAY at first but eventually WILL) go craaaazy. The lady from the Preview trailer had this happen. Then, C-SWAT (Max-Tac in Night CIty) comes and either terminates you or drags you in for therapy.

In other words, too much cyberware, the character goes nuts. If you've played Vampire: Bloodlines think of Frenzy. If you haven't, here's an example.

Right now, CDPR is debating how to illustrate this. Current thinking is that the Player SHOULD NOT go nuts - that we as players would not like that for our character, as a way to die or lose control and wake up in prison or whatever. But should it be narrative or stats or both or?

VOTE.

List of Polls to date: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/collected-weekly-polls-thread.10984601/

I don't like the options because I can't vote for "no cyberpsychosis at all and also no limitations on how much I can cyber mod V"

 

[Ramzah]

I think we should be limited but not story-wise.
A lot of people will want to portray a specific V and they will need augments for that, some more than other (can we even go without augs. at all? that would be interesting).
That being said, everyone should still be able to enjoy the story just the same or it will become a meme-fest kinda like vampire bloodlines was as a malkavian.
A couple suggestions for cyberware:

• Ripperdoc warns you when you are going overboard, depending on the augment cost there's a chance you will lose the money and get nothing ("You almost went psycho and i had to abort! You still pay for the piece you fried tho..")
• Allow only so much modifications, after a while (could be game days/hours irl) you "get used" to the piece and can augment some more.
• You need a drug to avoid going psycho, every additional augment shortens the duration of the drug (You need more and more), eventually you go psycho when you run out, screen fades to black and you wake up at ripperdoc where he has removed the augment that costs the most and refilled your "drug bar" if you're still above augment limit.
• Witcher 3 style, you use too many potions? You're poisoned. We could get a "malus" of some sort every time we go above the limit of augmentation, examples could be: Taking double damage, dealing half damage, moving half speed, etc. (This would require being able to remove augs tho).

 

[fridgeband]

I think we should be limited but not story-wise.
A lot of people will want to portray a specific V and they will need augments for that, some more than other (can we even go without augs. at all? that would be interesting).
That being said, everyone should still be able to enjoy the story just the same or it will become a meme-fest kinda like vampire bloodlines was as a malkavian.
A couple suggestions for cyberware:

• Ripperdoc warns you when you are going overboard, depending on the augment cost there's a chance you will lose the money and get nothing ("You almost went psycho and i had to abort! You still pay for the piece you fried tho..")
• Allow only so much modifications, after a while (could be game days/hours irl) you "get used" to the piece and can augment some more.
• You need a drug to avoid going psycho, every additional augment shortens the duration of the drug (You need more and more), eventually you go psycho when you run out, screen fades to black and you wake up at ripperdoc where he has removed the augment that costs the most and refilled your "drug bar" if you're still above augment limit.
• Witcher 3 style, you use too many potions? You're poisoned. We could get a "malus" of some sort every time we go above the limit of augmentation, examples could be: Taking double damage, dealing half damage, moving half speed, etc. (This would require being able to remove augs tho).

No limitations please, unlimited cyber mods please. Just make cyber psychosis optional, I want to have fun, not be inconvenienced further during my video game enjoyment.

 

[DataEntity.390]

Spoiler: Deus Ex

Also, Adam Jensen was a freak - basically he had a 1 in billions super power that let him load up on cyberware.

Jensen wasn't a freak, but a bioengineering miracle. That's his backstory, he wasn't born, he was made.

I think that reliable ripperdocs in '77 should be able to estimate how much a client's psyche can handle chrome. So no going cyberpsycho for V. This lines up with what CDPR would seem to have planned for the game.

Cyberpsychosis still happens, but it happens when a incompetent or just corrupt ripperdoc allows a client to push their limits way too far. Or if that person uses a autodoc to install cyberware unto themselves. Which in and of itself is a kind of cyberpsychosis I suppose.

 

[fridgeband]

I want unlimited powah
UNLIMITED POWAH
unlimited cyber mods no psychosis.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Spoiler: Deus Ex

Jensen wasn't a freak, but a bioengineering miracle. That's his backstory, he wasn't born, he was made.

I think that reliable ripperdocs in '77 should be able to estimate how much a client's psyche can handle chrome. So no going cyberpsycho for V. This lines up with what CDPR would seem to have planned for the game.

Cyberpsychosis still happens, but it happens when a incompetent or just corrupt ripperdoc allows a client to push their limits way too far. Or if that person uses a autodoc to install cyberware unto themselves. Which in and of itself is a kind of cyberpsychosis I suppose.

Normally you don't go from white (sane) to black (cyberpsycho). There a whole shades of grey between those two which is important.

 

[fridgeband]

Normally you don't go from white (sane) to black (cyberpsycho). There a whole shades of grey between those two which is important.

There are also EXTREMELY modded individuals in the cyberpunk universe that are totally fine, no cyberpsychosis at all. I think cyberpsychosis is completely subjective from individual to individual, some people don't do well, and some do totally fine. My V is gonna be really high will power, and really smart, so they're gonna get no cyberpsychosis at all and get UNLIMITED POWAHHHH unlimited upgrades. totally. I hope.

 

[Lady_Yuno55]

I don't know if his has been mentioned or not by other fans (or if it's in the original CB20), but I think it would be cool to have rampage mode where the machine takes over your body in a severely damaged state, how the machine part of your body infiltrate the mind order to ensure it's survival, then after a limited amount of time it will get reverted.

Maybe make it as an option when you have enough body modification?

That sounds bad tbh. Imagine frenzying (I know I'm using Vtm terminology btw) Near an important quest npc and killing them rendering your quest/mission a failure. That will piss off alot a people imo. Thank god they already said you couldn't be affected by cyberphsycosis lol. Plus i think they said you have a cyberware limit in game.

 

[Syware]

I went with the 3rd option and the the 4th option. I don't want it to affect my player too much in the story. A alternative would would affect my player in the gameplay. But at the same time that doesn't make much sense since the more cyberware you have the more the resources you have. I guess you could also say the more vulnerably you have too. I don't want too much penalty to the player because it would cyber-shame the player so they should also add some benefits by having lot of cyberware too.