Weird issues with crowd density setting and performance

+
Overall the game runs pretty well on my machine (I7 8700, RTX 2080, 16gb memory) at high settings without ray tracing, but there are a handful of locations in the city, ones with large crowds, where performance tanks a bit (from locked 60 to mid 40s). I found that changing the crowd density setting from high to low dramatically improves fps in these areas, sort of. Weirdly, the framerate is 60+, only when not looking around. As soon as you start panning the camera, the framerate drops back to 40's or even 30's, and then stabilizes back to 60+ as soon as you stop moving the camera.

A good test for this is the crowded area just out back of Tom's Diner, looking towards the market with the crime scene etc. On high crowd density the camera-stationary framerate is around 45, and it dips to 40 ish when panning. On low crowd density, the stationary framerate is almost 70, but when panning it drops even lower into the mid 30s. As a result, in this area at least, the low crowd density creates the appearance of worse performance, because there are enormous fluctuations. On low crowd density, by rapidly moving the camera, you can see the fps dip from 70 to 25! This also happens, although not nearly as badly, in Japantown just outside of Jig-Jig street where the big statue is.

So is the crowd density option bugged somehow? Seems like maybe the framerate drops are related to repeatedly loading or activating crowd npcs whenever they come into view (that's a guess at least), but if so, why would having far fewer npcs around with the low density setting cause bigger fps dips?
 
Same issue here - Ryzen 5 3600X, AMD Radeon 5700XT, 16gb of RAM

I can run the game around 50-60 fps in most areas of the game - open streets, indoors, you name it. It seems to be only a few areas where this issue persists - specifically the area in front of Tom's Diner, and the statue area next to Jig-Jig Street as the OP mentioned (especially the spot with the mesh glass windows in front of the statue). Turning the camera drops my frames close to the high 20s/lower 30s, but when I sit still, it stabilizes. The weird thing is, no matter what graphics settings I lower to, the situation stays the same. I also notice that when this happens, my CPU % hits pretty close to 100%. What sucks is this game runs my CPU at 70-90% at all times, so I'm convinced it's a CPU bottleneck of some sort, but the fact that changing the settings to the lowest doesn't change the outcome in this regard is concerning.

OP, the thought of this being affected by spawning NPCs when they come into view also crossed my mind. I noticed when it does happen, the NPCs are usually either despawning, or transforming into new NPC models. It seems this issue is centered around areas that have more forced crowd densities, such as the spots we're mentioning here. Does it seem like your CPU usage spikes like mine does during this?

I have an AMD Ryzen 9 3900X arriving soon (was planning an upgrade for a little while), and I'll see if this affects my situation. Almost everyone else I talk to notice frame dips in those areas as well, but nothing nearly as bad as what we're experiencing :'/
 
I5, GTX 1080, 16 GB potato here, but same things happens to me.

It will work super smooth inside buildings or when the camera stands still. But as soon as I move the camera rapidly when being outside or driving - the game starts stuttering.

I wasn't playing with NPC density to test if it helps or not, my first thought was that there's something wrong with the streaming system, as it kept happening during fast driving inside the city and when quickly panning the camera.
 
Oddly enough I dont have this issue and apparently my rig (see signature) is more of a potato than yours. The only time my frames drop like you are saying is when im driving really fast loading several sections of the map really quickly. At that point when driving high speed down the highway im getting like 25fps, but when im playing everywhere else even with crowds on high density im at 40-70 (at a stable rate) depending on the location.
 
Oddly enough I dont have this issue and apparently my rig (see signature) is more of a potato than yours. The only time my frames drop like you are saying is when im driving really fast loading several sections of the map really quickly. At that point when driving high speed down the highway im getting like 25fps, but when im playing everywhere else even with crowds on high density im at 40-70 (at a stable rate) depending on the location.

You have to go to that exact place behind Tom's Diner to understand what he is talking about.
 
If you think something might be a bug in this game, it probably is, lol. Just sayin'. But you're right, I get the same issue but only when driving and it's only in certain places and only for a very brief moment.
 
You have to go to that exact place behind Tom's Diner to understand what he is talking about.

I know what he is talking. This is a memory leak. Not necessarily a "Rendering too much my PC is chugging for power" issue. You look in a specific direction then all of a sudden your frames tank. Really doesnt have much to do with the crowds or how much is going on. There is similar areas throughout the world map that causes this. I found a few out in the desert areas of the map where there isnt anything heavy putting a load on the system.

Back in Battlefield 3, for the longest time I couldnt look East on a specific map. The one with the Radio Tower. IF i did, I would drop below 20fps for no reason. As soon as I looked away my frames went back above 60fps+.

Also, as proof of there being memory leaks. I was able to get outside the map and partially under it without exploits. I went to the border region where their the 20ft wall going all around the desert area. found about 5 sections as i traveled along it where it looks like you could get stuck in some holes between the rocks and wall itself. Well, there never closed the gaps and its an empty space you can crawl under and climb through the other side and youre now in the open world of the background. You cannot return from this area, but you can travel it freely without being forced to respawn. I went all the way to the edge to the black void. This is the source of the major memory leaks in the open world. When I used to mod and make levels and small worlds for other games like Quake III, CS1.6 & Star Wars Jedi Knight II Jdi Outcast (no im not famous or known) the first things you had to do was close the gap in the environment so you dont cause potential lag or glitches. This prevented the void outside the box of your world/level from causing memory leaks. In this game, the void is not boxed safely.

Ill go to that spot he is talking about to verify but im already 100% its a leak.
 

Guest 4478408

Guest
seems in situations where no combat or driving is going on, the game often doesnt even try to maintain its desired fps. my monitors resolution is challanging for my gpu so i have to use dynamic cas to maintain 60fps. it works really well most of the time and pretty much always when it matters, but when i just walk around in certain areas or during cut scenes it often drops below the desired fps.
 
I know what he is talking. This is a memory leak. Not necessarily a "Rendering too much my PC is chugging for power" issue. You look in a specific direction then all of a sudden your frames tank. Really doesnt have much to do with the crowds or how much is going on. There is similar areas throughout the world map that causes this. I found a few out in the desert areas of the map where there isnt anything heavy putting a load on the system.

Back in Battlefield 3, for the longest time I couldnt look East on a specific map. The one with the Radio Tower. IF i did, I would drop below 20fps for no reason. As soon as I looked away my frames went back above 60fps+.

Also, as proof of there being memory leaks. I was able to get outside the map and partially under it without exploits. I went to the border region where their the 20ft wall going all around the desert area. found about 5 sections as i traveled along it where it looks like you could get stuck in some holes between the rocks and wall itself. Well, there never closed the gaps and its an empty space you can crawl under and climb through the other side and youre now in the open world of the background. You cannot return from this area, but you can travel it freely without being forced to respawn. I went all the way to the edge to the black void. This is the source of the major memory leaks in the open world. When I used to mod and make levels and small worlds for other games like Quake III, CS1.6 & Star Wars Jedi Knight II Jdi Outcast (no im not famous or known) the first things you had to do was close the gap in the environment so you dont cause potential lag or glitches. This prevented the void outside the box of your world/level from causing memory leaks. In this game, the void is not boxed safely.

Ill go to that spot he is talking about to verify but im already 100% its a leak.

So that would explain the framerate dips stopping when you lower crowd density (in that area behind Tom's Diner)?
Post automatically merged:

seems in situations where no combat or driving is going on, the game often doesnt even try to maintain its desired fps. my monitors resolution is challanging for my gpu so i have to use dynamic cas to maintain 60fps. it works really well most of the time and pretty much always when it matters, but when i just walk around in certain areas or during cut scenes it often drops below the desired fps.

CAS has no impact on my performance (even if I set it to 50% resolution) in that area that he is talking about behind Tom's Diner.
 
Same here.
I know problems like this only from the game "7DaysToDie".
When ever the sun goes down or rises and you look at the horizon, fps drops from 60+ to 15-20fps. It has no effect that you can see it or not.
Reminds me of this.
 
Same issue here - Ryzen 5 3600X, AMD Radeon 5700XT, 16gb of RAM

I can run the game around 50-60 fps in most areas of the game - open streets, indoors, you name it. It seems to be only a few areas where this issue persists - specifically the area in front of Tom's Diner, and the statue area next to Jig-Jig Street as the OP mentioned (especially the spot with the mesh glass windows in front of the statue). Turning the camera drops my frames close to the high 20s/lower 30s, but when I sit still, it stabilizes. The weird thing is, no matter what graphics settings I lower to, the situation stays the same. I also notice that when this happens, my CPU % hits pretty close to 100%. What sucks is this game runs my CPU at 70-90% at all times, so I'm convinced it's a CPU bottleneck of some sort, but the fact that changing the settings to the lowest doesn't change the outcome in this regard is concerning.

OP, the thought of this being affected by spawning NPCs when they come into view also crossed my mind. I noticed when it does happen, the NPCs are usually either despawning, or transforming into new NPC models. It seems this issue is centered around areas that have more forced crowd densities, such as the spots we're mentioning here. Does it seem like your CPU usage spikes like mine does during this?

I have an AMD Ryzen 9 3900X arriving soon (was planning an upgrade for a little while), and I'll see if this affects my situation. Almost everyone else I talk to notice frame dips in those areas as well, but nothing nearly as bad as what we're experiencing :'/

Yeah, my cpu usage definitely spikes, and with RT disabled my gpu isn't even getting hit that hard, at like 60 to 70% usage, so certainly appears to be a CPU usage issue on my end also.

I took a video to show the difference between low and high crowd density, and how to fps dip lower on low vs high (
).

Like Briffault said, I suspect this is a bug more than it is my machine not being up to the task, so hopefully this will be among the things fixed in the first round of patches...
 
Same issue here - Ryzen 5 3600X, AMD Radeon 5700XT, 16gb of RAM

I can run the game around 50-60 fps in most areas of the game - open streets, indoors, you name it. It seems to be only a few areas where this issue persists - specifically the area in front of Tom's Diner, and the statue area next to Jig-Jig Street as the OP mentioned (especially the spot with the mesh glass windows in front of the statue). Turning the camera drops my frames close to the high 20s/lower 30s, but when I sit still, it stabilizes. The weird thing is, no matter what graphics settings I lower to, the situation stays the same. I also notice that when this happens, my CPU % hits pretty close to 100%. What sucks is this game runs my CPU at 70-90% at all times, so I'm convinced it's a CPU bottleneck of some sort, but the fact that changing the settings to the lowest doesn't change the outcome in this regard is concerning.

OP, the thought of this being affected by spawning NPCs when they come into view also crossed my mind. I noticed when it does happen, the NPCs are usually either despawning, or transforming into new NPC models. It seems this issue is centered around areas that have more forced crowd densities, such as the spots we're mentioning here. Does it seem like your CPU usage spikes like mine does during this?

I have an AMD Ryzen 9 3900X arriving soon (was planning an upgrade for a little while), and I'll see if this affects my situation. Almost everyone else I talk to notice frame dips in those areas as well, but nothing nearly as bad as what we're experiencing :'/
I've got a 5700XT but using an i9-9900k with 32GB 3200MHz ram. Not sure how good your CPU is but what I've done is I've got the game cranked to 1440p and ultra settings. I use the dynamic scaling at a minimum of 85% to a maximum of 100%. I turned the population density to medium as on high it generates so many that they'll get stuck or spawn inside objects and what not, and I run at a damn near perfect 60 fps with a few dips into the mid 50's
 
Ok, I'll throw in my few Cents on this topic:

What we know for sure: Crowd density is a CPU heavy setting, it does not do much to your GPU Usage. This has been tested by Gamers Nexus.
Crowd Density sets a limit to how much NPCs can be on your screen (or in your area, but I am pretty sure it limits the NPCs actually on your screen)
New NPCs spawn behind you and the game engine tries to despawn them when you are not looking at them.

Now it seems spawning and despawning NPCs is even more CPU heavy. Maybe the randomization an loading of the new clothes is very CPU heavy.
At low crowd density you reach the limit of maximum NPCs much earlier, so turning around your camera a lot and fast makes the game spawn and despawn NPCs even faster, so you notice much more CPU usage and FPS drops at low crowd density if your CPU is already highly utilized.
But thats maybe only my weird logic :)
 
I've got a 5700XT but using an i9-9900k with 32GB 3200MHz ram. Not sure how good your CPU is but what I've done is I've got the game cranked to 1440p and ultra settings. I use the dynamic scaling at a minimum of 85% to a maximum of 100%. I turned the population density to medium as on high it generates so many that they'll get stuck or spawn inside objects and what not, and I run at a damn near perfect 60 fps with a few dips into the mid 50's


Yeah... I'm starting to think it was a CPU/GPU bottleneck. When I would get close to 100% CPU usage, I would notice that my GPU usage would drop during the same intervals. I just got my new CPU (3900X), as well as more RAM, and it made a huge difference. I am now seeing a massive increase in performance (Same as you, 60fps with dips to 50ish), my CPU usage stays around 30% while playing, and that jittering in and around those areas is gone for me - However, I still notice that my frames drop about 10fps in those areas, so I definitely think there are some optimization flaw. All in all though, I just think this game is extremely demanding.
 
Yeah... I'm starting to think it was a CPU/GPU bottleneck. When I would get close to 100% CPU usage, I would notice that my GPU usage would drop during the same intervals. I just got my new CPU (3900X), as well as more RAM, and it made a huge difference. I am now seeing a massive increase in performance (Same as you, 60fps with dips to 50ish), my CPU usage stays around 30% while playing, and that jittering in and around those areas is gone for me - However, I still notice that my frames drop about 10fps in those areas, so I definitely think there are some optimization flaw. All in all though, I just think this game is extremely demanding.
Doing a little more playing with the settings, I've noticed the video resolution doesn't actually change screen size. I've never seen this before in any game. Usually changing resolutions will cause the game to flicker slightly while it changes sizes but in this it doesn't. It just appears to tighten everything up on a fixed resolution.
 
This is my system:


Only on this game I have random stuttering when driving or moving camera fast, it's random and very specific, sometimes it doesn't even register as low framerate but you can feel the stuttering.

RAM and Infinity Fabric are perfectly synchronized with each other are 1633Mhz here (3266Mhz RAM), that's not what's causing any stuttering.

Disabling or Enabling the videocard manuak overclock I have does nothing.

Latest cleanly installed drivers.

Zero problems with any other demanding game.

CP2077 has a very, very, poorly optimized engine and overall should have many extra graphic options and ways to scale details better (specially Ray Tracing, there should be more intervals to select many different levels of RT settings), game should run ~30% faster than it does (for how it looks compared to other games) on any decent hardware, let alone higher end parts.

Seems to me it also has RAM and VRAM leaking problems as many state performance get worse over time and is always better when restating the game.
 
Ok, I'll throw in my few Cents on this topic:

What we know for sure: Crowd density is a CPU heavy setting, it does not do much to your GPU Usage. This has been tested by Gamers Nexus.
Crowd Density sets a limit to how much NPCs can be on your screen (or in your area, but I am pretty sure it limits the NPCs actually on your screen)
New NPCs spawn behind you and the game engine tries to despawn them when you are not looking at them.

Now it seems spawning and despawning NPCs is even more CPU heavy. Maybe the randomization an loading of the new clothes is very CPU heavy.
At low crowd density you reach the limit of maximum NPCs much earlier, so turning around your camera a lot and fast makes the game spawn and despawn NPCs even faster, so you notice much more CPU usage and FPS drops at low crowd density if your CPU is already highly utilized.
But thats maybe only my weird logic :)


I know you meant this as speculation, but I seriously think you're onto something. When I would run the game on low crowd density I noticed I could despawn and respawn new NPCs at will as long I stood enough distance away. All I would have to do is turn my camera just to the point of which they were off screen, and they'd be replaced with new NPCs when I turned back. Every time this would happen, my CPU usage would go straight to 100% for a split second (from the very high 85%-90% I was already dealing with in my old 3600X build).

However, this didn't happen if the crowd density settings were higher than low. You have to increase your distance a certain amount from the NPC on medium for it to occur, and a lot more on high settings. This is probably why it isn't as taxing on the CPU as you increase the density in this regard, since the NPC spawning radius is increased, and not to mention that models are gradually rendered at lower resolution the further you are away from them.
 
You may notice that lowering the crowd density lowers the general graphics, objects draw distance, reflections quality and illumination. It doesn't matter if you still have the overall graphics maxed out, it slightly lowers draw distance/quality of objects/buildings when setting crowd density to low. It is more visible when RTX is off. I'm aware of this because i don't have an RTX video card and all these NPCs are dropping my frame rate to 20fps. I wish i could play with low crowd density without lowering the graphics or the draw distance of objects/ texture quality illumination etc.
 
Last edited:
I can only play with population density on high setting when I switched my CPU to ryzen 9 5900x, Before, when I had a ryzen 5 3600, I could only play without stuttering when I put it on low... My gpu is rx5700xt
 
Top Bottom