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Weren't we supposed to be able to see V in mirrors and reflecting surfaces?

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baha2046

baha2046

Fresh user
#41
Dec 13, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
PC (cause without that, I could not have set reflections to "psycho").
And even when not "activated" (worst excuse ever), why should V have no reflections on reflecting surfaces while the rest can be seen inside?:shrug:

Because the goal is to be able to see V in every reflecting surfaces, as it's the way you see yourself in FPP normally.
Click to expand...
Because they did not render V at all, V only start render when you are on a car.
therefore they cannot provide a 3rd angle gameplay like witcher3.
Maybe they don't render it for saving some graphic resource? I don't know
 
Metropolice

Metropolice

Senior user
#42
Dec 13, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
So once more, the First Person View served as a poor excuse not to animate the avatar correctly.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily or solely - cramped spaces could provide an issue for third person camera just like some scenes wouldn't be as impactful, such as mexican standoffs (with Maelstrom).

Whether it was a poor excuse to not bother with first person / third person rendering or model issues, I dunno, is a jump to an assumption. Of course, first person focus comes with the side effect that you don't necessarily need to deal with those issues, but no idea if it was the main motivation.
 
Bealdor

Bealdor

Forum regular
#43
Dec 13, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Thanks.
So once more, the First Person View served as a poor excuse not to animate the avatar correctly.
Click to expand...
That's what basically all first person games are doing to avoid clipping and improve performance.
 
M

moonknightgog

Forum veteran
#44
Dec 13, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Thanks.
So once more, the First Person View served as a poor excuse not to animate the avatar correctly.
Click to expand...
No. First person games have animations that suits the first person mode, and don't look good in third person. Like Crysis.



It's standard
 
KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#45
Dec 13, 2020
moonknightgog said:
No. First person games have animations that suits the first person mode, and don't look good in third person. Like Crysis.



It's standard
Click to expand...
It's not real first person view then, more like "I don't care as long as it easier to animate" view.
 
Bealdor

Bealdor

Forum regular
#46
Dec 13, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
It's not real first person view then, more like "I don't care as long as it easier to animate" view.
Click to expand...
No, it's the "most efficient way to get the character view working as intended without wasting resources on animations the players won't be able to see anyway" view.
True first person animations can have many downsides, especially if the shooting aspect of the game is fast paced like in CP2077.

You really need to get rid of that "If it's not done 100% true to real life, it's just lazy work" attitude. Game development doesn't work that way most of the time.
 
blitz4

blitz4

Fresh user
#47
Dec 13, 2020
My 2080 can't do RT at 1080p.

Remember all the flak about doing First Person Perspective instead of Third Person. Wasn't the biggest complaint that we wouldn't be connected to our Player Character. In return CDPR said we'll be able to see them in mirrors. This can not be what they meant.

There's no reason for me to click on the mirror in my starter home as the fps there is pretty high.
 
UglyCrone

UglyCrone

Fresh user
#48
Dec 13, 2020
I've recently heard a journalist saying it would be too demanding for any machine to constantly render the main character's reflection and animations in shiny objects and mirrors. So, they decided to cut this out for performance issues.
 
KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#49
Dec 14, 2020
Bealdor said:
No, it's the "most efficient way to get the character view working as intended without wasting resources on animations the players won't be able to see anyway" view.
True first person animations can have many downsides, especially if the shooting aspect of the game is fast paced like in CP2077.

You really need to get rid of that "If it's not done 100% true to real life, it's just lazy work" attitude. Game development doesn't work that way most of the time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, better have non-reflecting reflecting surface, so immersive.:shrug:
Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

UglyCrone said:
I've recently heard a journalist saying it would be too demanding for any machine to constantly render the main character's reflection and animations in shiny objects and mirrors. So, they decided to cut this out for performance issues.
Click to expand...
Options: let people choose what fits them the most.
Or use tricks like in other games (because other games are able to do that well enough, even open world ones).
 
mnafati

mnafati

Fresh user
#50
Dec 14, 2020
If they want to make a multiplayer version of cyberpunk, they'll need to solve that issue.
There is, as stated previously, no direct issue of performance, but the 1st model is distorded and headless so is better not shown.
Honestly, this is quite immersion breaking, I feel like a floating camera everytime I notice I am not reflected
 
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Keive

Keive

Forum regular
#51
Dec 14, 2020
How will multiplayer ever work then?
I honestly didn't expect them to go this route since they talked about multiplayer, which I know will be in the future but I was hoping we could get some 3rd person mods soon-ish :/


I know next to nothing when it comes to making games, just to clarify.
 
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Zeliret

Zeliret

Forum regular
#52
Dec 14, 2020
Guys did you notice that the window in your apartment is closing right before the mirror shows you reflection? So funny. Such a silly simplification. :D
Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

KakitaTatsumaru said:
It's not real first person view then, more like "I don't care as long as it easier to animate" view.
Click to expand...
Do not expect that some game will be so real as life. It is always about how to make it in a simpliest way for CPU and GPU.
 
Shaamaan

Shaamaan

Senior user
#53
Dec 14, 2020
Nemo1117 said:
Guess reflections are RT only.
Click to expand...
Nope. With RT enabled you can still only see yourself in select places / dedicated mirrors. This is really odd, given that this is what RT is for. :/
 
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Hayte

Hayte

Fresh user
#54
Dec 14, 2020
Animations that look good in third person perspective almost always look heavily distorted in first person. Mirror's Edge is a good example because there is a third person perspective hack so you get to see Faith spider walking around with no head. Movement looks natural in first person but becomes the stuff of nightmares if you go third person.

In games like Fallout 4, they basically rig the mesh for third person and when you switch to first person, its just a camera with floating hands at "eye" level. They only render what the player sees, and since you only ever see hands and arms up to the elbow, theres nothing else there. Unless its a full on simulation, games tend not to render things the player can't see for efficient workflow and performance.

Mirror's Edge and Cyberpunk are different because the camera is mounted where the head should be and things like hair are not rendered to prevent clipping through the camera. You can look down and see your own body. Mirror's Edge is built for first person perspective only and Faith is rigged and animated for kinesthetics - the sense of you having your own body in the gameworld and experiencing motion. Cyberpunk is really similar to Mirror's Edge in this regard.

If you want real mirrors in Cyberpunk and to see V reflected in windows and puddles of water, CDPR will have to re-rig and re-animate everything. It can be done but there is a debate to be had over whether or not its worth the time and resources to do this.

Photo mode is something you can see in other games but it has limited functionality in Cyberpunk because of first person perspective. Warframe for example is a third person game with a photo mode called "captura". You can move around in real time and pause, rotate the camera and make cool looking screenshots. In Cyberpunk you can't move in photo mode. You can only choose from preset poses, presumably because V isn't rigged to animate naturally in third person.

It works both ways however. You can't play Warframe in first person perspective. Even if they did try to do it like Mirror's Edge, melee attack animations involve a lot of spins, twirls etc. Even if they re-rigged the model for this to look and feel natural in first person and built out a full set of bespoke first person animations, you would puke your guts out.
 
Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#55
Dec 14, 2020
Hayte said:
Even if they re-rigged the model for this to look and feel natural in first person and built out a full set of bespoke first person animations, you would puke your guts out.
Click to expand...
I'm playing VR without any problem, so flat FPP won't make me puke.
 
Padhiver

Padhiver

Rookie
#56
Dec 15, 2020
Game like Wolfestein are FPS only and have perfect reflection of main character in Windows or so. If dev of Wolfestein can do that, CDProjekt can too.
 
q800

q800

Fresh user
#57
Dec 15, 2020
We probably were. It's just another thing about this techdemo that completely doesn't sum up. More of things like this are present. Basicaly in every aspect and layer of this One-Big-Placeholder called CP2077.
 
Kalfear

Kalfear

Senior user
#58
Dec 15, 2020
KakitaTatsumaru said:
Cause personally, when I look at a mirror, I got this (with reflections set at "Psycho" level):
View attachment 11075690
Very immersive indeed...
And for the record, reflecting surfaces existed way before ray tracing, for those wanting to use that argument.
Click to expand...
Has to be a bug for you
I am running a 1080ti (so no raytracing or DLSS) and mirrors work fine for me
 

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  • Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2020.12.12 - 03.11.04.02.jpg
    Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2020.12.12 - 03.11.04.02.jpg
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KakitaTatsumaru

KakitaTatsumaru

Forum veteran
#59
Dec 15, 2020
Kalfear said:
Has to be a bug for you
I am running a 1080ti (so no raytracing or DLSS) and mirrors work fine for me
Click to expand...
You didn't read the thread, nor looked at the picture: I didn't said V didn't reflected in "activated mirrors", I sais that in reflections in the game, like in my image, V is a vampire that isn't reflected unlike the rest which can be seen.
 
PrincessAmanda

PrincessAmanda

Forum regular
#60
Dec 15, 2020
In DukeNukem3D I can walk to the bathroom mirror and see Duke's reflection.
Technology was lost in time, like tears in the rain.
 
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