What are the game design trends that annoy you the most and why? I know there's only 6 months till release, but better now than never.
Third person perspective
Multiplayer
If multiplayer happens, not having private story co-op
Not having jumping
Forcing slow walk
Illusion of choice/superficial consequences
Multiplayer
If multiplayer happens, not having private story co-op
Not having jumping
Forcing slow walk
Illusion of choice/superficial consequences
Wasn't there a similar thread before (or maybe one dedicated to CP77 only) ?
Well, I'm always glad to share, so here we go
In my #3 annoyances in such things are :
- Cliché characters and scenarios ; archetypes seem OK to me, but for a CP genre game I expect the characters to have deepness of morale (not every NPC, ofc). Same goes for stereotypical scenarios, we've seen them all as they're 30 or 40 years old. Make us players think about new, actual questionings too, because this is the root of cyberpunk genre. Without it, it's just a sci-fi game.
- Grinding : I know that CP77 will include grinding (what RPG doesn't ?), but it must be justified by the context. Also, one can easily fall into the grind trope (which is having to start at Level 1 to level 100 because "reasons"), which doesn't work well with me. If my character have some experiences, the game should consider that + I'd prefer a lesser gap between early gameplay and endgame (demi-god tier level might be fun for an Elder Scroll game). The only good reason to keep that : if you'd expect to reach such a high destiny in a cyberpunk game (like becoming the new techno-ruler of the World, whatever).
- Some (missing) narrative-related gameplay features : this one's might be tricky (I'm not a dev myself so I might not understand how things work), but considering that in a RPG, pretty much everything is "narrative" (the punches you throw, the dialogue choices you make, the partner you choose to go on mission, etc.), then IF the game pretends to be (modern, and) more immersive, I'd expect to have more ways for my character to express through gameplay than in usual games. The way my character looks, is one example (as being talked in various threads here). But there could be other unusual features in game, like non-verbal communication, attitude, rudeness, memorization of the character's habits, making friends through certain (non-scripted) situations. For this regard it needs a panel of communication keys, at least ; and a game complex enough to let emergent gameplay occur.
I think that's the next step for modern "cyberpunk-related" RPGs.
To sum up : non-linear quest (emergent gameplay that affect the main quest) ; no basic grinding (no demi-god situations, if not justified in the context) ; no stereotypical scenarios with outdated questionings.
Well, I'm always glad to share, so here we go
In my #3 annoyances in such things are :
- Cliché characters and scenarios ; archetypes seem OK to me, but for a CP genre game I expect the characters to have deepness of morale (not every NPC, ofc). Same goes for stereotypical scenarios, we've seen them all as they're 30 or 40 years old. Make us players think about new, actual questionings too, because this is the root of cyberpunk genre. Without it, it's just a sci-fi game.
- Grinding : I know that CP77 will include grinding (what RPG doesn't ?), but it must be justified by the context. Also, one can easily fall into the grind trope (which is having to start at Level 1 to level 100 because "reasons"), which doesn't work well with me. If my character have some experiences, the game should consider that + I'd prefer a lesser gap between early gameplay and endgame (demi-god tier level might be fun for an Elder Scroll game). The only good reason to keep that : if you'd expect to reach such a high destiny in a cyberpunk game (like becoming the new techno-ruler of the World, whatever).
- Some (missing) narrative-related gameplay features : this one's might be tricky (I'm not a dev myself so I might not understand how things work), but considering that in a RPG, pretty much everything is "narrative" (the punches you throw, the dialogue choices you make, the partner you choose to go on mission, etc.), then IF the game pretends to be (modern, and) more immersive, I'd expect to have more ways for my character to express through gameplay than in usual games. The way my character looks, is one example (as being talked in various threads here). But there could be other unusual features in game, like non-verbal communication, attitude, rudeness, memorization of the character's habits, making friends through certain (non-scripted) situations. For this regard it needs a panel of communication keys, at least ; and a game complex enough to let emergent gameplay occur.
I think that's the next step for modern "cyberpunk-related" RPGs.
To sum up : non-linear quest (emergent gameplay that affect the main quest) ; no basic grinding (no demi-god situations, if not justified in the context) ; no stereotypical scenarios with outdated questionings.
- Leveled HP sponge enemies,
- Combat skill progression via damage increments,
- Character systems (skills, stats, derived stats) that don’t get a chance to actually affect gameplay in a meaningful way,
- Big map that’s ”living” only on the surface, but dead inside (lacking interactivity),
- Scripted mission progressi.e. cars not letting you catch them even if you have a faster one, not allowing someone to die because ”it’s not his/her time yet”...),
- Unkillable NPC’s (companions included),
- Gameplay focusing mostly on combat, walking and talking (in that order) with nothing really in between,
- Streamlining out of proportion, implying people are stupid and cannot handle complexity,
- Promoting for mature audiences, but designing for impatient children,
- Graphics whoring out of proportion,
I’m sure I could come up a sackful more, but mesh...
- Combat skill progression via damage increments,
- Character systems (skills, stats, derived stats) that don’t get a chance to actually affect gameplay in a meaningful way,
- Big map that’s ”living” only on the surface, but dead inside (lacking interactivity),
- Scripted mission progressi.e. cars not letting you catch them even if you have a faster one, not allowing someone to die because ”it’s not his/her time yet”...),
- Unkillable NPC’s (companions included),
- Gameplay focusing mostly on combat, walking and talking (in that order) with nothing really in between,
- Streamlining out of proportion, implying people are stupid and cannot handle complexity,
- Promoting for mature audiences, but designing for impatient children,
- Graphics whoring out of proportion,
I’m sure I could come up a sackful more, but mesh...
Finished GreedFall not long ago, good game but like so many the last half of the game was 90% combat centered with the minimum story necessary to justify it. Bigger and better weapons, skills, opponents were the order of the day, very little in terms of story or non-combat skill use.
- Cinematic camera effects in FPP - chromatic aberration, film grain, bokeh, lens flare and the like. The mk1 eyeball has none of these 'features'. The mk2 eyeball shouldn't either.
- The illusion of choice - when all the different actions or dialog options lead to the same inevitable outcome. The ending should also be more than a palette swap.
- Quests that are simply 'go here and collect that', 'go here and collect five of that', 'go here and kill that', or if you're really lucky 'go here and collect five of that and then kill the other that'.
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According to an interview, (can't find the source, sorry) CP 2077 will not have any side quests that are just "go there and kill that". Like the Witcher 3, there will always be a small story behind the quest and why you're doing it.
You know that watch tower thing, that kinda thing where you GOT TO CLIMB to unlock a piece of the map, yeah, fuuuuu that.
Also anything that deals with a rigorous amount of pointless chores, like: you have to sleep 9 hours, eat a meal every 4 hours, exercise constantly. Just no.
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Also anything that deals with a rigorous amount of pointless chores, like: you have to sleep 9 hours, eat a meal every 4 hours, exercise constantly. Just no.
Having a written paragraph as an explanation for such actions doesn’t make the process magically better unless collecting something has a tangible effect on the bigger story or the game world.
Things that I would include to exclude for the better would likely be down to Microtransaction purchases, inaccuracy on guns because of skills being too heavy (now for example if it was a heavy gun and you have low strength for rpg purposes that would be okay if you were slow and unable to aim properly) but the skills should not make shooting guns impossible at the beginning just for the rpg sake. I would say FPP only, but I'm thinking that we've been over this already and that they will continue with their decisions at this point for the sake of release. The last thing would probably be balancing, a game like this has got to have balance with action versus story. Having quests and combat like Skyrim, don't get me wrong it was a good game and I wouldn't say at the date of release it was poor quality, but nowadays things are alot, or at least should be more innovated when coming to RPG elements, not just the combat depth, but also questlines and story.
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I disagree with the last area, things that are tedious will remind you that they need done to improve other areas of the game. I think those would be realistic ideas to add and yes they would be tedious, they aren't pointless. We may not see eye to eye, but I like immersive experience and would totally include those mechanics.
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I happen to like camera effects, especially in a Cyberpunk game where things should be toned with certain effects, yeah I agree adding too many ruins the point, with rain I totally agree in first person because eyeballs are not camera lenses, but some need to be left in for at least optional selection if that's fair.
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I've played games like that where half my inventory was pies, and I 'd risk starving to death if i didn't eat something every ten minutes. I can understand devs wanting to make a 'realistic' and 'immersive' experience, but I play games to escape the mundanities of reality and to have fun. if they are going to add things like this it needs to be designed first and foremost an enjoyable gameplay experience and not just so that they can tick the 'realism' box in the marketing materials.
CP2077 should avoid:
- pointless minigames
- pointless "survival" mechanics
- pointless "freedom" to kill everyone, which is used by players only to fool around.
- bland and uninteresting NPC's, put there only to have some content.
- copy-paste equipment. Looks the same, feels the same, but has better stats, because it's "MK2"
- implementing skills/abilities just for the sake of "having multiple skills in the game"
- Fetch quests
- pointless minigames
- pointless "survival" mechanics
- pointless "freedom" to kill everyone, which is used by players only to fool around.
- bland and uninteresting NPC's, put there only to have some content.
- copy-paste equipment. Looks the same, feels the same, but has better stats, because it's "MK2"
- implementing skills/abilities just for the sake of "having multiple skills in the game"
- Fetch quests
im probably going to get lynched for saying this but i honestly dont want them to add TPP IF they dont think that it would fit the game they are trying to create,would much rather have an optimized FPP,gameplay is more important than just having the ability to see my character
Anyway
-Im really worried that Cdpr would turn into rockstar if the multiplayer succeeds and they would shift most of their resources favoring multiplayer and completely ignoring single player content because thats what will make them the most money, i still cant believe we did not get a single player DLC with Gta 5 and RDR 2,im also worried of Cyberpunk turning into a cesspool of clickbait youtubers and 10 year olds but thats inevitable i guess
-Game being too easy,i watched the behind closed door gameplay demo and it seems to be kinda easy,the animals(the big ass dudes on steroids) literally died in 2 shots using the revolver and the nanowire one shots everything like its nothing,also the damage that V was taking was extremely low however i think this can be addressed with choosing a harder difficulty
-Not encouraging you to look at the map or mini map,tried doing that in the witcher 3 got my ass handed to me multiple times because i ended up fighting against enemies/monsters that are much higher level than me or just feel like i was getting no where.i also ended up killing side quest monsters that completely bugged the side quests.
-Fleshed out mini game Gwent is a perfect example of this.
-Bullet sponge enemies/bosses GOD do i hate these types of enemies
Regardless i trust Cdpr and they earned the insane amount of hype surrounding the game and i im confident that they will give us a game that will be one of the best and most ambitious games ever
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Anyway
-Im really worried that Cdpr would turn into rockstar if the multiplayer succeeds and they would shift most of their resources favoring multiplayer and completely ignoring single player content because thats what will make them the most money, i still cant believe we did not get a single player DLC with Gta 5 and RDR 2,im also worried of Cyberpunk turning into a cesspool of clickbait youtubers and 10 year olds but thats inevitable i guess
-Game being too easy,i watched the behind closed door gameplay demo and it seems to be kinda easy,the animals(the big ass dudes on steroids) literally died in 2 shots using the revolver and the nanowire one shots everything like its nothing,also the damage that V was taking was extremely low however i think this can be addressed with choosing a harder difficulty
-Not encouraging you to look at the map or mini map,tried doing that in the witcher 3 got my ass handed to me multiple times because i ended up fighting against enemies/monsters that are much higher level than me or just feel like i was getting no where.i also ended up killing side quest monsters that completely bugged the side quests.
-Fleshed out mini game Gwent is a perfect example of this.
-Bullet sponge enemies/bosses GOD do i hate these types of enemies
Regardless i trust Cdpr and they earned the insane amount of hype surrounding the game and i im confident that they will give us a game that will be one of the best and most ambitious games ever
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I think that's pretty much guaranteed at this point so no worries there. It's a first person game through and through with the occasional third person point of view.
I think they should get rid of those occasionalities too. At this point, with the kind zeal they've kept with the perspective they've chosen, it just seems tacked on and unnecessary.