What creative solutions to game difficulty could be added other than the archaic HP/DMG modifiers?

[Ouroboros612]

Kind of a suggestion and discussion both. I was wondering if you have any good ideas for what other solution than the archaic HP/DMG +/- mods that could work for CP2077? What do you think would be bad ways to handle it VS good ways?

Difficulty only adding more life and damage mods to players and NPCs is so archaic. But admittedly - it is the best solution for devs considering time investment.

Some suggestions:

Improved AI for higher difficulties
Less loot drops and a chance of manually placed / static items not spawn or be downgraded
More expensive implant prices
Give enemies a chance to spawn with random upgrades to implants and weapons
Add more enemies to a possible confrontation (Example, a guy with 2 bodyguards can now have a third with a sniper on a roof above)

I have to say though... I don't have a "golden solution" here myself. But surely, the satisfaction of beating the game on a higher difficulty can be achieved in a better way than just amping up HP/Damage of enemies?

 

[ihavacoolname]

Higher accuracy and lower reaction time for enemies. More realistic detection for you in stealth (but not unrealistically difficult, unless they have surveillance or implants). Better pathing for patrols, faking players out and having enemies' coordinating patrol routes better with each other. Higher numbers of enemies in better positions, with more reactions. Limit healing to hardcore realism for V unless she has implants.

Independently of a higher difficulty setting, I would want a "Hardcore" realistic setting where unless you have armor and healing body mods, the game won't play like CoD. A couple of shots kills you, and it kills the enemy, too. Anything else to make it realistic should be in Hardcore mode, too, not as an issue of difficult, but as an issue of immersion.

 

[personagrata]

some high-level enemies having a trauma team subscription.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Yeah, ditch the HP and DMG progression from difficulty.

Difficulty settings modify the starting range of skills (if they don't start at 0 by default) and the impact they have on what they govern and how fast they progress. Weapon damage is either a static number, or am open range within which the done damage is randomly chosen upon impact.

I.e. Shooting at very low skill is terrible. Can't hit anything without really putting your mind to it and taking your time to focus. Terrible for situations that really demand speed... which is most of combat.
- No matter how good/powerful gun you possess, if you can't shoot, it only helps you with the off chance of shooting at static targets on relative close range.
- Lots of bullets wasted on misses and staying alive is tough as killing someone is tough. And it can be frustrating if you insist on being a pro even if your character isn't (and that's the point).
- On the other hand, when a hit is scored... it really pays off. Bullets are dangerous. Getting shot doesn't mean you're being nibbled to death by a duck.

And this should also apply to the enemies. They miss too. But tougher ones far less so, and they probably wear tougher armor to penetrate too.

On harder difficultiers combat is lethal and requires focus and thought, and acceptance of the characters weakness at shooting. And maxing out a skill to actually become that pro requires hefty amount of time.
On easier difficulties, the negative impact of a low skill on accuracy is less severe, more easily compensated and progress is faster.

 

[SigilFey]

Restoring health / healing could be much more stringent or complicated:

• No "insta-heal" at all. All healing takes time.
• Different types of injury, each with specific remedies. So:
  • Screen-blur or wobble due to damage can be fixed in a few seconds with pain-killers.
  • Light wounds and bleeding can be handled with basic med-kits, but that will allow only a portion of the damage to be healed. Say 75%
  • Advanced med-kits are needed to address major injuries and to fully heal, which takes even longer to heal.
  • Applying each takes time and resources. (No more eating pot-roasts on the run while hip-firing an M60.)
• Potions / Boosters take time to kick in and wear off slowly. I can't use one during a fight -- the effects might not even get going before it's over. Gotta plan ahead and try to be efficient with my time.
• Consequences for actions:
  • If I'm sneaking, and someone sees something, they notify local NPCs that somethings up. (They don't make a, "Must have been the wind," comment and go back to being passive.)
  • If I'm actually seen, the environment changes. Lights get turned on, guards begin patrolling. They cover exits, lockdown doors and windows, etc. I can still sneak, but now it's much harder.
  • If I actually attack and am caught, alarms sound, guards become aggressive, additional guards arrive, new defensive measures are activated. (I need to fight my way to the objective and then get out -- "clearing" a location should be borderline impossible, especially at that point.)
• Most enemies flee to save their lives. Not only is this more realistic, but it can be used as a tactic. i.e. I don't need to "kill" anyone, even as a fighter. I could snipe those 5 targets...or I could lay down such heavy suppression that they retreat from that location, opening up my path with no bloodshed. (But that doesn't mean they won't regroup and flank me later. )

 

[Dreadpoet]

I know you may "role" your eyes, but I dislike that there are no real world consequences to player death in modern gaming. In Ninja Gaiden (nes), one watched their life bars carefully--because they did not want to start back a level due to death by bat. The later levels of the game were especially frustrating as you could unravel 15-20 minutes of gameplay due to death by being randomly knocked into a pit.
Currently, there are no consequence to player death. If your character dies, you go back to your last save. Which, is likely 2sec. before the bullets started flying. On advanced difficulty, allow only autosave. Set auto save to sleep cycles, end of missions, and every 20 min. That will slow down those pesky Chuck Norris/John Wayne wannabes; and remind younger generations that gaming requires skill--not just playing a scenario over-and-over until the conditions are suitable to clearing a room. When the life or death of our characters have real world consequences, we WILL be more deliberate in gaming choices.

Unlike Fallout, I do not think you should be able to change difficulty in the middle of the game.

 

[Tree_Fox]

The later levels of the game were especially frustrating as you could unravel 15-20 minutes of gameplay due to death by being randomly knocked into a pit.

That will slow down those pesky Chuck Norris/John Wayne wannabes; and remind younger generations that gaming requires skill--not just playing a scenario over-and-over until the conditions are suitable to clearing a room.

You just contradicted yourself in the same post.

Anyway, frustrating the player isn't good game design. Neither are cheap deaths that are completely random. Also, all gaming has ever been is re-running the scenario until you get the desired outcome.

 

[Poison19]

I know you may "role" your eyes, but I dislike that there are no real world consequences to player death in modern gaming. In Ninja Gaiden (nes), one watched their life bars carefully--because they did not want to start back a level due to death by bat. The later levels of the game were especially frustrating as you could unravel 15-20 minutes of gameplay due to death by being randomly knocked into a pit.
Currently, there are no consequence to player death. If your character dies, you go back to your last save. Which, is likely 2sec. before the bullets started flying. On advanced difficulty, allow only autosave. Set auto save to sleep cycles, end of missions, and every 20 min. That will slow down those pesky Chuck Norris/John Wayne wannabes; and remind younger generations that gaming requires skill--not just playing a scenario over-and-over until the conditions are suitable to clearing a room. When the life or death of our characters have real world consequences, we WILL be more deliberate in gaming choices.

Unlike Fallout, I do not think you should be able to change difficulty in the middle of the game.

This but with minor improvement, game saves your state every minute (Items, levels, etc). Because it's very annoying when you go exploring, pick up some loot, level up, then go to the other place and then die, aaand when you load you need to go to this place again, loot it again, level up again and so on.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Improved enemie AI, where they fight from cover in a more realistic way, or flank you, etc would be good for difficulty instead of just making them bigger bullet sponges.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Improved enemie AI, where they fight from cover in a more realistic way, or flank you, etc

Yeah, that is a good idea. But I think that should be the case by default anyway. I don't think anyone really wants stupid AI even if they prefer easier gameplay.

The difficulty, I think, comes best from the PC's level of aptitude in dealing with the given situations.

I think the game should be designed for "set" difficulty as far as how NPC's operate, and what ever difficulty settings there might be, would affect more directly the player character (the impact of skills and stats - and more precisely the negative impact that the numbers start to compensate - and their progression rate, the availability and prices of gear and goods, the amount of money the player is awarded, the difficulty of skillchecks and potency of failurestates for the attempts (provided the checks aren't simple gates)).

 

[SigilFey]

I know you may "role" your eyes, but I dislike that there are no real world consequences to player death in modern gaming. In Ninja Gaiden (nes), one watched their life bars carefully--because they did not want to start back a level due to death by bat. The later levels of the game were especially frustrating as you could unravel 15-20 minutes of gameplay due to death by being randomly knocked into a pit.
Currently, there are no consequence to player death. If your character dies, you go back to your last save. Which, is likely 2sec. before the bullets started flying. On advanced difficulty, allow only autosave. Set auto save to sleep cycles, end of missions, and every 20 min. That will slow down those pesky Chuck Norris/John Wayne wannabes; and remind younger generations that gaming requires skill--not just playing a scenario over-and-over until the conditions are suitable to clearing a room. When the life or death of our characters have real world consequences, we WILL be more deliberate in gaming choices.

Unlike Fallout, I do not think you should be able to change difficulty in the middle of the game.

I get where you're coming from here. I get tired of the reload / retry thing very quickly. I don't think that limiting saves is the way to go, though, as the more complex a game becomes, the more prone to bugs and glitches it is. I've had virtually every game of anything I ever tried to play in "Ironman Mode" wind up completely destroyed by a random issue. It could be a worthwhile option, though, if players want to tempt fate.

I do agree that the primary penalty for most games is nothing, or the frustration of losing progress. I would most like to see the ability to continue on after the defeat. I could reload, or I could just lose that mission, miss out on its benefits, and have to find a way to soldier on. Games in the past, especially flight sims like the Aces series and Freespace, used to have branching campaigns like that. Whether you won or lost, the game would progress and the subsequent missions would reflect the failure.

 

[lelxrv]

Do whatever you want with difficulty, but no autosaves-only system. [No console vs. PC angst.]

 

[Poison19]

You feel free to manually save your game when you sleep in your bed

 

[lelxrv]

You feel free to manually save your game when you sleep in your bed

I'm surprised how much frustration people want to instill on themselves. No thanks. I want to be able to manually save any second I want (cutscenes or fights are exceptions).

For example, if I want to revisit a specific moment in a game without actually replaying entire ****ing mission or even a game. Games like Watchdogs (or any Ubi game for that matter), Tomb Raider, GTA and so on... F*** that.

 

[Poison19]

When feel free to play on normal difficulty

 

[lelxrv]

When feel free to play on normal difficulty

What if I want to fight a specific boss on the highest difficulty without replaying the entire game?

It's easier for you people to create challenges for yourself instead of forcing other people to follow these frustrating rules. Play no-death challenge or restart a game when you're dead.

 

[Poison19]

It's easier for you people to not forcing your personal opinion and play how it intended by a game

 

[lelxrv]

It's easier for you people to not forcing your personal opinion and play how it intended by a game

I don't want a game to force me into frustrating BS mechanics.

If some people want ancient arcade mechanics because they can't enjoy a game otherwise, they can always execute it themselves. Other gamers shouldn't suffer because of it.

 

[SigilFey]

I'm surprised how much frustration people want to instill on themselves. No thanks. I want to be able to manually save any second I want (cutscenes or fights are exceptions).

For example, if I want to revisit a specific moment in a game without actually replaying entire ****ing mission or even a game. Games like Watchdogs (or any Ubi game for that matter), Tomb Raider, GTA and so on... F*** that.

And that's a valid opinion.

Now let's work on keeping the tone respectful of all other opinions.

This is why I would always argue for such restrictions to be options. There's no huge reason for games to insist on denying players preferences such as this. (Unless they're integral to the actual gameplay, like Dark Souls.) My philosophy is, wherever possible, "Let the player decide."

 

[Poison19]

This is why I would always argue for such restrictions to be options. There's no huge reason for games to insist on denying players preferences such as this. (Unless they're integral to the actual gameplay, like Dark Souls.) My philosophy is, wherever possible, "Let the player decide."

Thats's my opinion too.