Hardly run decoy myself. Just figured it would work on the same premise. Thanks!
As predicted it seems Idarran will be the cause of many annoying decks. I don't know how I feel about this card, I think it will continue to plague the game. The devs already had a similar struggle with Caranthir so I don't understand why they thought this was a good idea. This time it's a neutral which makes it even harder to balance around.
It seems like one of those units that will either forcefully limit future Spawn cards or it will continue to spew out these absurd combos.
It seems like one of those units that will either forcefully limit future Spawn cards or it will continue to spew out these absurd combos.
Caranthir is in a single faction though.
Also Caranthir only spawns 1 additional copy of a Gold.
Idarran on the other hand can spawn 1 each turn (also with low base strength units like Redanian Archers the copies he creates are almost base copies).
Indeed. Idarran's definitely the black sheep of this expansion.
I'm rarely against changing cards altogether but I don't see any scenario where his ability will pan out flawlessly. It's just a poorly thought out idea which will seriously limit design space.
He needs to be addressed quickly instead of the devs dancing around the issue by nerfing everything that benefits from his effect. Hopefully they'll realize this.
Hey guys, just finished my Anti-Viy decks guide, please check this out if you want to destroy those pesky players:
(last post on that thread)
forums.cdprojektred.com
(last post on that thread)
Misc. Gwent Guides to... [Beating Viy Decks]
Today started the Season of Love, and with it, the 12th and last seasonal mode in Gwent. The devs havent confirmed what will happen from now, if the same modes will rotate, maybe with few alterations, or maybe new ones will be released (still waiting for that Blitz mode...) But for now... GUIDE...
forums.cdprojektred.com
Him being similarly annoying - yes. Being as meta defining and dominant (carrying a deck to pro rank just by himself) - so far not. I say so far, because we are still way too early in the expansion to tell, we will have a lot more theorycrafted options in the coming weeks to choose from / compare to.
Isn't their worst nightmare just Warrit + Isbel ?Hey guys, just finished my Anti-Viy decks guide, please check this out if you want to destroy those pesky players:
(last post on that thread)
Misc. Gwent Guides to... [Beating Viy Decks]
Today started the Season of Love, and with it, the 12th and last seasonal mode in Gwent. The devs havent confirmed what will happen from now, if the same modes will rotate, maybe with few alterations, or maybe new ones will be released (still waiting for that Blitz mode...) But for now... GUIDE...
Once they consume it once you can do that to just take their Viy.
Edit: This can be blocked by a bricked Oneiromancy or Haunt, however once one sees those (or often before then) it is just game.
Misreading a card's ability is funny in and of itself but if you also add "do I need glasses" at the end it's just... oof
There are some very good thoughts about Viy above... but we all know it's very bad for the game when there is one OP exploit and everybody's focused on countering that exploit.
One could add "I'm not a noob, I know this game in and out" to potentially make it next level oof.
Post automatically merged:
While I agree about the concerns regarding Viy decks, it is important to note that this was one of the first theorycrafted (and powerful) decks. The current Viy hype is all about massive early netdecking, which was expected.
Although Viy will remain dominant (and potentially get a slight Strengthening nerf) I'm positive as more powerful decks will surface, the netdeck community will have it less in focus.
No issues with Viy. NG Witchers Usurpator start to work nicely
I must say is quite fun to use new manipulation stuff. 1st time when enjoing NG and Usurpator. Probably not most powerful deck but ..... whatever
I must say is quite fun to use new manipulation stuff. 1st time when enjoing NG and Usurpator. Probably not most powerful deck but ..... whatever
Yeah, I found out this by trying Yenn's Invocation on Morvan Vhooris once. He just vanished out of the game. :]
But thanks for the critique of my post!
In my defense, Dol Dhu Lokke card text does not specify that the highest power unit to move to the top of the deck is also from the deck and not the battlefield. Normally in Gwent, when the location of a card between the battlefield, the deck and the graveyard is not specified, it's the battlefield (like "the highest unit" from Curse of Corruption). Conversely, when a card is from the deck, it's always specified (like "any card from the deck" from Fisher King). The wording is imprecise and implies that the card should work like Curse of Corruption combined with Yennefer Invocation.Once you accept that the only thing in Gwent that makes it somewhat a little bit less binary than rock-paper-scissors itself is that you can lowroll and not draw your "scissors," Idarran is okay. When you look at some other passive ability cards, it's nothing special. Just another remove-or-lose. The only problem imo is that 8 provisions. Compared to other cards, 8 prov for a must-remove 6 body - and accessible to any faction - is way too low. Such 6 body units with similar power are easily in the 10-12 prov range.
Especially when it's a wide strategy card, and wide punish is very weak in Gwent (outside Schirru).
Viy probably needs to be nerfed. Adding several provisions or nerfing the power per usage would be nice - or both.
While I was able to beat Viy with ST movement, I had to spec Yrden to do it. With Malena, Viy is manageable but I still can lose from a 2-0. But this isn't the main problem.
Viy invalidates a huge amount of decks and potential decks that could appear with the new expansion. Let's look at the top decks from last season.
SK warrior - no chance to beat Viy really, Mork is the only counter. Hjalmar used to be a great removal card, now it's useless.
ST nature's gift - imagine getting a 20+ point dryad, that'd be great right? Now imagine you have 4+ of those with little counter play. That's Viy.
Shieldwall - Wow, Anseis for 20 points! Huge! lol
I think you get the idea. Last season decks can't deal with this. But we're tired of those anyway, right?
SK in its current form, whatever that is, has no chance, so we can rule out SK. NR can hit the high points, but only if it isn't bled and wins round 1, which is very difficult versus Viy, so that probably won't work either.
NG seems like it should be the natural counter, but actually, because of Viy's provision being less than oneiromancy and haunt, you aren't able to disrupt Viy. ST as I said earlier, has the best shot I think, but one deck from one faction probably means we have an issue with balance.
On the other hand, we can all just run syanna + salamander, right? Problem is that's a... 4 card combo? Salamander, roland, rayla, syanna. Viy on the other hand... i've never seen it NOT pop off.
Even the counters, besides Yrden seem strange. Spores comes to mind, but if you think about it, you actually don't gain much. So let's say they play barghest and consume a 20 point Viy. You play spores, great, you got a 15 point spores. Unfortunately, they got a 20 point barghest and you have a 5 point deficit regardless.
These counters have other side effects too. In order to counter Viy, you need neutral cards like spores or Yrden in most cases. This means that devotion decks can't really be played. Maybe Viy should be made a devotion card itself?
So we can say that Viy invalidates many decks, making for a potentially stale meta. It forces deck builders into awkward corners where they must play certain cards, like spores or Yrden.
While it is fun to see a potentially new archetype, it shouldn't come at the cost of so many existing archetypes becoming invalid in ranked. I think the developers intended for some decks to become viable, such as spies and assimilate, but assimilate doesn't generate enough points fast enough to survive rounds one and two while still allowing for its long round three.
While I was able to beat Viy with ST movement, I had to spec Yrden to do it. With Malena, Viy is manageable but I still can lose from a 2-0. But this isn't the main problem.
Viy invalidates a huge amount of decks and potential decks that could appear with the new expansion. Let's look at the top decks from last season.
SK warrior - no chance to beat Viy really, Mork is the only counter. Hjalmar used to be a great removal card, now it's useless.
ST nature's gift - imagine getting a 20+ point dryad, that'd be great right? Now imagine you have 4+ of those with little counter play. That's Viy.
Shieldwall - Wow, Anseis for 20 points! Huge! lol
I think you get the idea. Last season decks can't deal with this. But we're tired of those anyway, right?
SK in its current form, whatever that is, has no chance, so we can rule out SK. NR can hit the high points, but only if it isn't bled and wins round 1, which is very difficult versus Viy, so that probably won't work either.
NG seems like it should be the natural counter, but actually, because of Viy's provision being less than oneiromancy and haunt, you aren't able to disrupt Viy. ST as I said earlier, has the best shot I think, but one deck from one faction probably means we have an issue with balance.
On the other hand, we can all just run syanna + salamander, right? Problem is that's a... 4 card combo? Salamander, roland, rayla, syanna. Viy on the other hand... i've never seen it NOT pop off.
Even the counters, besides Yrden seem strange. Spores comes to mind, but if you think about it, you actually don't gain much. So let's say they play barghest and consume a 20 point Viy. You play spores, great, you got a 15 point spores. Unfortunately, they got a 20 point barghest and you have a 5 point deficit regardless.
These counters have other side effects too. In order to counter Viy, you need neutral cards like spores or Yrden in most cases. This means that devotion decks can't really be played. Maybe Viy should be made a devotion card itself?
So we can say that Viy invalidates many decks, making for a potentially stale meta. It forces deck builders into awkward corners where they must play certain cards, like spores or Yrden.
While it is fun to see a potentially new archetype, it shouldn't come at the cost of so many existing archetypes becoming invalid in ranked. I think the developers intended for some decks to become viable, such as spies and assimilate, but assimilate doesn't generate enough points fast enough to survive rounds one and two while still allowing for its long round three.
I think you have perfectly identified the big problem with Viy: while it can be beaten — even consistently beaten — it severely restricts possible decks.
At the end of the day a -1 strengthening wouldn't hurt the card THAT bad. It would keep the archetype intact, while reducing the pressure it can generate, especially in short R3s after all tutors have been used.
Most of the other suggestions would break the card one way or another as I see it.
Still, I'd would advise to be patient at this point and wait for the meta to shape out - new decks and strategies are emerging on a daily basis for most factions. I believe we can draw a conclusion on what is overpowered and what is not once we see a bit more of the picture. As Viy was one of the (if not the first) high power decks theorycrafted, it is somewhat natural that it had a painful impact in the first week (with so many players netdecking into it).
As a comparison, SK after (and for a good while later) MM launch was broken. Mainly because it could literally take on every other decks, no matter how you teched against it. Viy is absolutely different in my eyes - powerful, yes, but ultra greedy at the same time, with zero control. Expoitable and beatable with in multiple ways.
Most of the other suggestions would break the card one way or another as I see it.
Still, I'd would advise to be patient at this point and wait for the meta to shape out - new decks and strategies are emerging on a daily basis for most factions. I believe we can draw a conclusion on what is overpowered and what is not once we see a bit more of the picture. As Viy was one of the (if not the first) high power decks theorycrafted, it is somewhat natural that it had a painful impact in the first week (with so many players netdecking into it).
As a comparison, SK after (and for a good while later) MM launch was broken. Mainly because it could literally take on every other decks, no matter how you teched against it. Viy is absolutely different in my eyes - powerful, yes, but ultra greedy at the same time, with zero control. Expoitable and beatable with in multiple ways.
Idarran works with leaders as well. This allows it to do devastating uninterruptable plays like Mobilization into Redanian Archer the same turn it's placed on board, at that point the opponent has 3 Archers on board so already he has gotten good value. Sure, you can remove Idarran after that, but the snowball effect is already in motion. You will fall behind.
The other cards that are similarly devastating if left unchecked are usually 3-5 power, row-locked and more expensive. And most importantly one time use.
Maybe they can salvage Idarran if they put a cap on him, have his effect work only 3 times or something similar. I'm not sure.
Preferably limit him to only work with cards as well and maybe even reduce his power to 5.
Right now I'd rather use my removal on Idarran than Syanna, that says something.
Last edited:
Idarran can easily snowball with Imposter. You can get two engines on the board with the leader ability plus you can play a card.
At some point, it's hard to tell whether it's a Seasonal or Ranked game.
Rank 2
And Idarran works with Scenarios as well.
Reminds me of the infamous Damien spam seasonal, whichever it was.
Idarran seems pretty nuts from what I've seen, in general.