Besides potentially being totally non interactive, Viy works equally well in long or short rounds. Moreover, Viy decks cannot be bled: first because doing so almost certainly will lose at least one card, and second because there is nothing to bleed.
Short of nerfing the card to oblivion, or changing both provision and values to make the card a support rather than an anchor for decks (basically not worth dedicated tutoring), or being willing to restrict/eliminate the game’s excessive tutors, I don’t think this card concept can work.
For all its problems, I’m not sure Viy is the most broken card in the expansion. It could be receiving a lot of play because: 1. Creating a Viy deck is an obvious process with little subtlety. Hence, good Viy decks are quickly discovered because they don’t — at least as they appear to me — require, or even have space for, much tuning. Second, I think a good Viy deck only requires two cards from the expansion (Viy and Dol Dhu Lokke) so players who already own the tutors can craft one at low cost.
Short of nerfing the card to oblivion, or changing both provision and values to make the card a support rather than an anchor for decks (basically not worth dedicated tutoring), or being willing to restrict/eliminate the game’s excessive tutors, I don’t think this card concept can work.
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For all its problems, I’m not sure Viy is the most broken card in the expansion. It could be receiving a lot of play because: 1. Creating a Viy deck is an obvious process with little subtlety. Hence, good Viy decks are quickly discovered because they don’t — at least as they appear to me — require, or even have space for, much tuning. Second, I think a good Viy deck only requires two cards from the expansion (Viy and Dol Dhu Lokke) so players who already own the tutors can craft one at low cost.
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how is it round 1 locked? it is super easy to set up, you just put down your all seer like every NG player round 1, then play mentor and then cantarella or whatever. it easily plays for 10+ cards basically every time I face it, except when the opponent just plays it with no setup, where I've seen it go to 8 and 9 a lot of times either.
It's round 1 locked because using it outside of round 1 means that the chances of finding an High value card decrease exponentially: you need at least a 9p else it's really not worth the 6p cost.
Also the set-up you mentioned is a three combo, so you can still miss one of the pieces (without Warrit the entire trick fails and you're forced in a very unpleasant situation with mentors)
But Gezras deck stacks rows and boosts rows. It naturally plays into Yrden. Everything ends up on ranged or you do it wrong.
Anyway, it's not just Yrden, this whole movement is fun but rather meme. Too much value depends on one engine, and then on not bricking bronze synergies or getting them interrupted. It tries to be NR but lacks in just about every aspect of an engine deck, and tries to make up for it with one op Gezras (that everyone already knows to save their removal for) and some powerful but inconsistent synergies. Also, Gezras needs swarmy packages which leaves less room for control then you're used to as an ST player.
But proactively speaking... these points... phew!
Luckily it's just one card so maybe it will take them less time than with SK warriors.
yes the setup is a 3 card combo, but mentor really only needs 1 turn setup. the cantarella/kingslayer is totally optional. I agree the card is a tricky one but it can be extremely strong even for 6p and would definitely be overtuned at 5p. in this early meta its not even very unlikely to hit a 20+ point viy in round 3 so I dont see it being round locked lel.
however this 3 card combo I mentioned can be gamewinning if the opponent cant immediately tutor his top deck card, which speaks for itself imo.
Uhmm...no.viy could easily be fixed by starting at 9 or maybe even 10 and increasing by 2 per consume, that way it's still good and you can build a viable deck around it but it doesnt explode as muchI like the card design it just seems a little overtuned so far
The reason it`s broken, it`s it can`t be interacted with.
So, the real fix should be something like:
"If moved to graveyard, increase strength by 3.
At the round end - reshuffle it back from your graveyard to your deck"
This fixes lack of interaction and abusing too many uses in one round.
I disagree.
Strengthening is only toxic if not contained within a limited space (i.e. cards can only strengthen themselves and not others).
Disagreed, without strengthening the tutor cards would play for 8 value each (obviously without thining, so the argument that they would still be tutors would be incorrect).
At that point you would play an 8 for 12, just so your 8p and 10p Specials can play as garbage 8p cards, which can also completely brick if Viy is not consumed and then answered, which results in them playing for even less value.
The card would be completely unplayable.
In this case Viy would play as a 3 for 12, the first tutor would play as a 6 for 8-10, which demands a consume (which is also worth 1-2 points), so it would realistically look like this:
(i) Viy 3 for 12
(ii) Whispering Hillock: 6-1.5=4.5 for 8
(iii) Double Cross: 9-1.5 = 7.5 for 8
(iv) Royal Decree: 12-1.5=10.5 for 10 (okay'ish if it would be completely unconditional)
(v) Oneiro 1: 15-1.5=13.5 for 13 (okay'ish if it would be completely unconditional)
(vi) Oneiro 2: 18-1.5=16.5 for 13 (actually good)
So based on your idea you have to draw all your tutors to get an about decent last tutor (if you actually draw all of them and miss none) and have to make plays with some of the worst payoff in the entire game, similar to opening with Regis against 2 units.
Both of your suggestions would make Viy less playable than the Witcher Trio before their recent buff.
If you try to bleed them you are doing something wrong, just like you are not trying to bleed Lippy decks.
Viy decks do not scale up with round length, given that they are aggro decks like Lippy decks.
You try to win Round 1 and then smash them in a long round.
One example would be TemerianSpecimen's NR Witcher Swarm deck, which still won with an over 50 point lead (and that was before he added Yrden into the flexible spot he tried Ciri: Dash in).
Not so optional though. If you don't take it with Cantarella you're handing over their best card in the deck next round.
Also while Viy decks are very common atm it's still only one match-up and you're forced to play them last, which is not very practical for sequencing reasons. In any case even if they remain 6p I hope they are least raise the adrenaline
(Same for Viper Witcher, who's horrible)
I changed my mind since yesterday: Viy is fucked up hahaha. I see all kinds of noobs that play like pros with this one and I see too much of it today.
hahaha. I see all kinds of noobs that play like pros with this one and I see too much of it today.Or "Shuffle Viy back to your deck then increase its base power by 3 and give it Doomed".
Make people work for the points by having to purify the 2nd and subsequent copies.
That would make it completely unplayable.
The simple solution would be to change it's deathwish to activate from the graveyard. After its destroyed it goes to the graveyard, then after 1 turn it gets shuffled into the deck.
That would make the deck auto-lose against any kind of grave interaction.
Honestly I think reducing the strengthening by 1 would solve the problem.
Although if played right Movement ST and Witcher swarm NR can easily beat Viy decks, even now.
OK, I agree reducing base strength to 3p would be to much.
Actually I like this idea:
At least there would be a chance to destroy it when in graveyard and it won't grow to rediculous 25+ points strenght.
Oh my, auto-lose instead of "play Viy to Auto-Win".
That sums up this card - totally OP and toxic binary mechanics.
Graveyard interaction is very limited, especially ineffective against monsters, as they already have a lot of targets for Ozzrel.
Like Yghern, or Speartip.
So only people who want just to win, not to compete, are going to defend current mechanics.
What`s the point to auto-win cards ?
Except that I suggested a reasonable change.
Out of curiosity, what deck do you currently play that Viy would, even with the nerf of only strenghtning by 2, be an auto-win against you ?
then don't build your deck around 1 card. That kinda is the problem that's being exploited. This way there is a chance to interact with it and that's still just 1 turn before going to the deck. I was going to say after 2 turns. Even that would still be generous. It would still see play in my mind, just not broken play.
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