What do you think is gonna be first to get a hotfix?

[Celadyl]

Unfortunately, in its present form, Viy, however its stats are tweaked, will present a floor engine value all opposing decks must meet to be competitive. Unless this floor is so low that Viy decks are unplayable, it will be so high that only very heavy engine decks can be meta. This destroys the game.

Either Viy or several of the excessive possible tutors must be substantively changed; power tweaks to Viy can never bring balance.

I somewhat agree but also disagree. the Viy deck is reliant on order consume units sticking on the board so Viy isnt exposed. if you have a heavy control list and can get rid of slyzards, barbeghazi, desert wraith (?) and possibly kayran, the viy player is left with 3 leader charges. atleast that's what comes to my mind rn, am I overseeing something? even if you only kill half of those, the ones that remain must consume multiple times, being super vulnerable to tall punish.
I think the viy list is so successfull atm because everyone is trying new, sometimes whacky combos with the new cards. if I remember the meta of the last weeks*, which was extremely removal heavy with heatwave, rockslide, 5p removals and others being in almost every deck, I think Viy might have a harder time against those

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...]
2. Viy, in an appropriately designed deck, is never exposed to interaction (except by NG deck manipulation antics which can usually be countered); Griffin is exposed to removal and damage.

Unfortunately, in its present form, Viy, however its stats are tweaked, will present a floor engine value all opposing decks must meet to be competitive. Unless this floor is so low that Viy decks are unplayable, it will be so high that only very heavy engine decks can be meta. This destroys the game.
[...]

2.) is not necessarily a problem though, what it does is that it gives a core to tutor cards to be played for value, rather than thinning.
It is actually weird that you call it an engine, given that in its purest form it is just a pointslam deck, not unlike Lippy decks.
Also I disagree with your argument, as soon as there are enough actually decent engine decks those Viy decks are non-competetive or have to adapt, in which case they lose value for control and put out less points.

If you tweak its stats (especially the strengthening part) you alter the value on ALL of its tutors, given that all of them also inherit its changes.

[...]
Viy's popularity won't last because certain factions can't be left unchecked, you have to tech or disrupt them somehow. People are still learning how these cards work. I'll call it here and now. In about a month, Viy will still be an auto include but some tutors will have to be swapped out, it won't be as it is now.

Mind you I don't like the uninteractive nature of these cards so I'm in no way defending it. If Tutors are fixed (which we've been saying here for months) then these cards wouldn't be as problematic. Tutors restrict good designs like this.

You are likely to be right that the deck will have to adapt.
I would personally say the card is currently overtuned and should only strengthen by 2, however it is an early expansion phenomenon.
If tuned down slightly the decks will become a lot less relevant once the meta settles down.

 

[DRK3]

Ahhh, i find this situation about Viy extremely funny, and ill explain why:

- before expansion launch and after the reveals, saw a lot of players saying Viy decks would be meme and Koschey decks were gonna be OP/broken

- what is happening? Viy seems to be the most popular of the new decks, meanwhile the only players ive seen using a full Koschey deck is myself

- i thought i was gonna like Viy decks but i dont like it, maybe because i instinctively dont like whats popular. Also, im not a fan of going really tall

- i did a much "memeier" deck than Viy today, which is terrible against everything else but i beat Viy 3/3 with it, i talked about it in this thread: (shameless plug )

Theme & Meme Decks

I had Kingslayer (who often turned into Eskel: Pathfinder especially when the real Eskel got neutralized in some way), but I didn't think of using him to get around Ivo's cooldown. Might be worth a try, thanks. :D That method actually helped me win a few matches at rank 8/7 just messing...

forums.cdprojektred.com

You dont need 7 Geralts to destroy Viy decks, but a Yrden will greatly increase your odds.
I know Yrden is much hated, but if it's one of the best ways to counter greedy decks and otherwise uncounterable decks, im all up for it.

 

[Guest 4375874]

Ahhh, i find this situation about Viy extremely funny, and ill explain why:

- before expansion launch and after the reveals, saw a lot of players saying Viy decks would be meme and Koschey decks were gonna be OP/broken

- what is happening? Viy seems to be the most popular of the new decks, meanwhile the only players ive seen using a full Koschey deck is myself

- i thought i was gonna like Viy decks but i dont like it, maybe because i instinctively dont like whats popular. Also, im not a fan of going really tall

- i did a much "memeier" deck than Viy today, which is terrible against everything else but i beat Viy 3/3 with it, i talked about it in this thread: (shameless plug )

Theme & Meme Decks

I had Kingslayer (who often turned into Eskel: Pathfinder especially when the real Eskel got neutralized in some way), but I didn't think of using him to get around Ivo's cooldown. Might be worth a try, thanks. :D That method actually helped me win a few matches at rank 8/7 just messing...

forums.cdprojektred.com

You dont need 7 Geralts to destroy Viy decks, but a Yrden will greatly increase your odds.
I know Yrden is much hated, but if it's one of the best ways to counter greedy decks and otherwise uncounterable decks, im all up for it.

Yup I decided to try the Viy tutor deck and perhaps in the higher ranks some players may not know how to handle it but from rank 0-3 players already know how to counter this. It's like I said, give it time.

Once you destroy, lock, reset, steal or whatever the consume units the card plays for significantly less. Viy works in a perfect scenario where your opponent doesn't try to disrupt your strategy. People aren't doing that as much now because they're trying new things but I've seen worst things to worry about.

Specifically Idarran, Kolgrim, Ivar and the list goes on.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

- what is happening? Viy seems to be the most popular of the new decks, meanwhile the only players ive seen using a full Koschey deck is myself

- i thought i was gonna like Viy decks but i dont like it, maybe because i instinctively dont like whats popular. Also, im not a fan of going really tall

Theme & Meme Decks

I had Kingslayer (who often turned into Eskel: Pathfinder especially when the real Eskel got neutralized in some way), but I didn't think of using him to get around Ivo's cooldown. Might be worth a try, thanks. :D That method actually helped me win a few matches at rank 8/7 just messing...

forums.cdprojektred.com

You dont need 7 Geralts to destroy Viy decks, but a Yrden will greatly increase your odds.
I know Yrden is much hated, but if it's one of the best ways to counter greedy decks and otherwise uncounterable decks, im all up for it.

Same here...Koschey+Idarran seems far more viable than Viy. I still include it but it's situational.

 

[skaleras]

The Viy deck is all over the place in rank 3, I have only won against it when they played The Caranthir version or when I baited the OH charges with an incomplete poison removal on the consuming monsters. Not having last say is death sentence against that deck. Also getting bled with Haunt is too much.

 

[DRK3]

Yup I decided to try the Viy tutor deck and perhaps in the higher ranks some players may not know how to handle it but from rank 0-3 players already know how to counter this. It's like I said, give it time.

Once you destroy, lock, reset, steal or whatever the consume units the card plays for significantly less. Viy works in a perfect scenario where your opponent doesn't try to disrupt your strategy. People aren't doing that as much now because they're trying new things but I've seen worst things to worry about.

Specifically Idarran, Kolgrim, Ivar and the list goes on.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

Same here...Koschey+Idarran seems far more viable than Viy. I still include it but it's situational.

The thing im most surprised is how quickly an optimized Viy deck popped out, and it works because it never allows the opponent to interact with Viy, with Heatwave or even squirrel, since it never goes in the graveyard.

And its impossible to counter every one of the proactive consumes: Haunt alone gives 2 (and you cant Heatwave and deal with banshee at the same time), leader gives 3 more, and MO has a ton of cheap consumes, i would know - got to Pro rank with Ruehin lists on a very NG meta, and not even they had enough control to deal with all consumes, and since then, a lot of new consume bronzes were added. Its similar to this Viy strategy, in the sense you just put 1 unit to be consumed and a ton of cheap consume bronzes where your ok if one or two or three are countered.

You did imply NG is the best to counter Viy ("destroy, lock, reset, steal") and i agree, not by countering the proactive consumes but by having the most efficient tall removal (Vincent, Yen Invo, half a dozen poisons) and still be competitive.

But most other factions wont have a chance, the new content (fortunately) is not very focused on removal.

-----------------------------

Regarding Idarran+Koschey, i dont think its as good as we thought. It takes a long time to set it up, specially if you include defender. Then it works similar to Kiki Queen (no effect on deploy, only on thrive), the problem is if you go Idarran+Caranthir+Koschey, which can only done in the last 4 turns, it swarms the board too much and also you wont have much chance to thrive all those new larvae.

I havent played with it enough, but i suspect the best strategy might be caranthir+koschey on 1 round, idarran+koschey on the other, that might be more balanced in controlling row space and in tempo.

 

[Guest 4375874]

The thing im most surprised is how quickly an optimized Viy deck popped out, and it works because it never allows the opponent to interact with Viy, with Heatwave or even squirrel, since it never goes in the graveyard.

And its impossible to counter every one of the proactive consumes: Haunt alone gives 2 (and you cant Heatwave and deal with banshee at the same time), leader gives 3 more, and MO has a ton of cheap consumes, i would know - got to Pro rank with Ruehin lists on a very NG meta, and not even they had enough control to deal with all consumes, and since then, a lot of new consume bronzes were added. Its similar to this Viy strategy, in the sense you just put 1 unit to be consumed and a ton of cheap consume bronzes where your ok if one or two or three are countered.

You did imply NG is the best to counter Viy ("destroy, lock, reset, steal") and i agree, not by countering the proactive consumes but by having the most efficient tall removal (Vincent, Yen Invo, half a dozen poisons) and still be competitive.

But most other factions wont have a chance, the new content (fortunately) is not very focused on removal.

-----------------------------

Regarding Idarran+Koschey, i dont think its as good as we thought. It takes a long time to set it up, specially if you include defender. Then it works similar to Kiki Queen (no effect on deploy, only on thrive), the problem is if you go Idarran+Caranthir+Koschey, which can only done in the last 4 turns, it swarms the board too much and also you wont have much chance to thrive all those new larvae.

I havent played with it enough, but i suspect the best strategy might be caranthir+koschey on 1 round, idarran+koschey on the other, that might be more balanced in controlling row space and in tempo.

NG is the least. I've lost to both SK and NR with the Viy deck. Neither of which countered it. NR outpointed it and SK has ridiculous removal so the consume units didn't stick, in addition to boosts. The irony is neither players were even using any cards from this expansion. Both factions I could have countered if I had any tech/control cards which I didn't because everything was built around Viy and they were left to play freely without disruption. SK was kicking our asses while we were actively teching against it for months lol...leaving them alone just to tutor Viy won't hold up.

I agree with Idarran+Caranthir+Koschey...takes too long to set up. I tried using double Idarran+caranthir+beast into Renew for 4 beasts. which helped but then Idarran is so fragile now that everyone is packing Rockslide so I found myself adding a defender. It's just not very consistent. Most of the MO players I have encountered have stuck to their OH+Detlaffe+Scenario play from last expansion actually. I can see myself getting bored of this expansion already honestly, not much will have changed once the dust settles

 

[Barracuda88]

The thing im most surprised is how quickly an optimized Viy deck popped out, and it works because it never allows the opponent to interact with Viy, with Heatwave or even squirrel, since it never goes in the graveyard.
...

To be fair, it's the easiest "optimized" deck to build. You stuff all of the tutors and all of the order consumes and fill whatever room is left to taste. There's no synergy to worry about, no sequencing, nothing.

 

[ya1]

Just bring Spores for the Viys and - I hate to say it - Yrden. But imo cheese abusers do deserve it.

 

[Selestes]

Finally, the best expansion.
By saying the best, I mean there are countless OP cards now, countless other are completely dead AND it's clear that there is no saving this crap now. And they arr not even trying anyway, it's also clear.

Only way is to start from the very beginning......)))
Which is a good thing.

 

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

Finally, the best expansion.
By saying the best, I mean there are countless OP cards now, countless other are completely dead AND it's clear that there is no saving this crap now. And they arr not even trying anyway, it's also clear.

Only way is to start from the very beginning......)))
Which is a good thing.

It could have been worse, but i'm honestly thinking that this company is starting to become a joke after what's happening with cyberpunk 2077. They had a good shot with The Witcher 3 but that's it. I'm honestly starting to regret every single cents spent on their products at the moment.

 

[Draconifors]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Cyberpunk. Stay on topic.

 

[Payus]

You guys are sleeping on the most OP card and the most toxic. Vypper

Oh, you think I'm joking?

There's the most evil and hatefull combo with Vypper which is so OP and broken I can't even comment about it, just so nobody else figures it out.

 

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

You guys are sleeping on the most OP card and the most toxic. Vypper

Oh, you think I'm joking?

There's the most evil and hatefull combo with Vypper which is so OP and broken I can't even comment about it, just so nobody else figures it out.

Where's the humour tag?

 

[Markus_Wirth]

What I think about Viy is that it´s easy to play. Just many consumers plus Overhelming hunger plus haunt.

Taking a look at my statistics I can say that Viy is only my third best performing deck. Number 1 are the Cat witchers with Guerilla Tactics and number 2 NG snowdrop + Antimill. Suprisingly bad performing are the bear witchers.

 

[Gyg]

He is refering to discard vipper deck. You discard The Vipper in round 1, copy it with imposter, Iddaran, coup de Grace etc.
With Sigfried of Denesle you can pull out 5-6 Vippers in Both r2 and R3.

 

[Slizzl]

What we're seeing now is nothing compared to Master Mirror on release. With that expansion it was impossible to compete with anything other than the latest cards. This expansion I'm still seeing a ton of older decks do well.
This is why I'm surprised people are crying powercreep again. The new cards directly synergizes with older ones. There is actually an use for cards like Infiltrator or Wretched Addict now. Adding support to existing archetypes is not powercreep, cards like Amphibious Assault, Blood Eagle and Scenarios are.

They're also buffing older cards that are not seeing play, other CCGs that make a conscious effort to powercreep would not do this. I know because I've quit some before moving to Gwent.

What they are doing is slowly raising the ceiling for bronzes so they can better compete with golds, ultimately this is a good thing.

 

[Payus]

Not op at all...

 

[Slizzl]

Not op at all...

View attachment 11073659

Funny idea but how can it be op when a single 4p Squirrel would completely kill the deck? Or am I missing something?

 

[Payus]

Funny idea but how can it be op when a single 4p Squirrel would completely kill the deck? Or am I missing something?

how does the squirrel do anything when you have 7 vipers in YOUR Graveyard?