What do you think of this combat criticism?

[DavesTheName]

I think his review of Witcher 3 was absolutely spot on. Everything about this game is amazing except for the combat and movement. Put it this way - combat is so shallow that I will win 100% of the time IF the targeting system behaves itself. Unfortunately the targeting system is horrendously bad and I'll tell you why:

If I lock on to a target it means I'm unable to effectively fight, dodge or parry other enemies.

If I don't lock on to an enemy the game seems to decide at random which enemy I should be fighting. This leads to me dying over and over and over in fights versus multiple enemies because the game all of a sudden decides to target a new enemy when I've almost killed the old one, and Geralt starts jumping and attacking toward a new enemy that is far away.

This is just bad combat mechanics, plain and simple. If the targeting system works then I will win every single battle (even on death march difficulty), if the targeting system screws up (which it does a LOT) then I get killed because of a terrible broken mechanic.

 

[Taurusbull]

Targeting could use a litle tweak yes.

The movement is cool, does not need to feel weighty, its not Dark Souls.

Dodge use stamina is a bad idea, however proper dodging should be a thing hard to master. As it is, and with a branch in alchemy that slows down time, game past lvl 10 is easy as they come in Death March, definetly something wrong here.

 

[rramos3]

im suprised they didnt go with the arkham knight/shadow of mordor combat style. it would include everything this game already has, just more fluid and organic.

 

[Taurusbull]

im suprised they didnt go with the arkham knight/shadow of mordor combat style. it would include everything this game already has, just more fluid and organic.

Mmmmm don´t know, i love that combat system as much as i love Dark Souls combat system, even although they are very different, but I don´t think it would work here.

Am fine with combat as it is actually, just want the game to be harder.

 

[HellKnightX88]

The targeting complaint is spot on. It feels so random with Geralt switching targets mid fight all by himself.

And AI sometimes goes full retard and it need some tweaking. And you can abuse it by staying outside the wander zone of human enemies and just hitting them with your crossbow. But that's extremely boring and I'd rather play normally and have fun. If you look at many games you'll see that you can cheese your way through fights by abusing a certain thing over and over again. It's similar to Shadows of Mordor complaints regarding repeatedly pressing space to become invulnerable in fights... yeah, it works but it looks dumb and it's boring.

The video does bring up some fair points but it's also complaining about stuff that you have to go out of your way to abuse. It's like yelling at a person mid conversation and then bitching that instead of continuing to talk to you that person walked away from you. If course it's not going to work if you go out of your way to break it. Should these things be fixed? Yes, of course but it's a bit silly to complain about these kind of things if you have to meta-game the system in order to abuse it instead of just playing the damn game and have fun.

As for your suggestions OP
-fixing targeting: yes.
-better enemy AI to take advantage of bad positioning and openings you give them would be great
-make the enemies able to riposte after couple of Geralt swings (like in The Witcher 2): witch hunters already do this AFAIK.
-I'd rather have blocking not take any stamina but instead work kinda like the quen bubble shield, it can only absorb a certain amount of hits/damage until you have to just avoid getting hit. Then again I rarely parry because I'd rather dodge and then take advantage of an opening.
-dodges costing stamina is a horrible idea, you'll be completely screwed against any group larger than 3-4 where you have to dodge and use signs for crowd control.
-speed of fast attacks and doges should stay the same, Geralt's a witcher, he's supposed to have an edge in that regard.
-I don't know what you mean about weighty, enemies react to getting hit that's enough IMO

 

[Taurusbull]

.

-speed of fast attacks and doges should stay the same, Geralt's a witcher, he's supposed to have an edge in that regard.

Dodge should be fast yes, but i think it should require a more precise timing to be effective, as it is if you blindly press dodge button u wont get hit even by more than 3 enemies.

 

[Captainwaffle]

I think his review of Witcher 3 was absolutely spot on. Everything about this game is amazing except for the combat and movement. Put it this way - combat is so shallow that I will win 100% of the time IF the targeting system behaves itself. Unfortunately the targeting system is horrendously bad and I'll tell you why:

If I lock on to a target it means I'm unable to effectively fight, dodge or parry other enemies.

If I don't lock on to an enemy the game seems to decide at random which enemy I should be fighting. This leads to me dying over and over and over in fights versus multiple enemies because the game all of a sudden decides to target a new enemy when I've almost killed the old one, and Geralt starts jumping and attacking toward a new enemy that is far away.

This is just bad combat mechanics, plain and simple. If the targeting system works then I will win every single battle (even on death march difficulty), if the targeting system screws up (which it does a LOT) then I get killed because of a terrible broken mechanic.

No, you get killed because you do not know how to use the mechanic, have not gotten used to the combat in the game.
It is simple, you will attack the targer you are moving towards. Meaning where you move him towards, you will attack this target. That works EXTREMELY well in this game(if you know how to use the system) because packs of enemies will often attack you from many sides and it allows you to switch targets easily.

Not a bad system, not a problem with the system, a problem with the player using the system.

My problem with unwanted target switching is that I am facing my opponent (with camera), I click and then Geralt attacks the wall (or the air) to his side (no enemies in that direction), or jumps to a side to attack an enemy there, without me doing anything with the mouse but just clicking to attack.

That is just your problem, and all you need to do is move towards the target with Geralt you want to attack. Want to attack someone behind you? Move geralt that way and hit him. It is really easy.

Almost all the complaints i have seen so far have been issues with the people playing, not the game. The only really legit complaints being balance later on, game gets too easy.

 

[HellKnightX88]

It doesn't really work that way though. I've had Geralt facing a dude, hitting him and then randomly turning to another dude and attacking that guy instead.

 

[Captainwaffle]

It doesn't really work that way though. I've had Geralt facing a dude, hitting him and then randomly turning to another dude and attacking that guy instead.

And i have not had issues like this, and i highly doubt the game works differently for us both.

EDIT: I just tested it, 100% of the time Geralt will attack the target i am moving towards, want to attack the guy to the right? press A and attack, the one behind you? S and attack. You can literally attack one target after another in a pretty spectacular fashion if you just switch the location Geralt is facing at with your movement keys. And it is very responsive.
That simple people.

 

[HellKnightX88]

You can doubt all you want... it's what happened. If we went with the "this hasn't happened to me so it couldn't have happened to you" line of thought a lot of bugs and issues wouldn't be looked at or fixed.

 

[AircoolUK]

So many people in denial. Movement, combat, controls and camera are all risible.

 

[Garrison72]

I agree completely with the author of the video. The automatic target change drives me crazy sometimes - I am attacking an enemy and suddenly Geralt rushes to attack another enemy far away for no reason - and the AI of humans is a bit bad.

I guess it could be improved with more aggressiveness and also more attention to Geralt's attacks, making parries and counter-attacks more often (not just the bandits with heavy axes).

I'm still getting a feel for the targeting but it seems to work just like TW2, which means camera control and proximity are the controlling factors in targeting. so if Geralt dashes off unexpectedly it's because I'm not paying attention to my surroundings or the camera is too close. A FOV mod bringing the camera up farther would be of help. But really, the author of that video has been hammering TW3 for ages and he comes off as a whiny bitch making inane conclusions. He might as well level the same complaints against Dark Souls and they'd ring true. So he can spam attack low level bandits. Good for him. Try that against a wraith or Griffin. By his logic Dragon's Dogma, which has excellent combat, is just as spammy. He should move on and quit provoking the fans.

 

[Captainwaffle]

You can doubt all you want... it's what happened. If we went with the "this hasn't happened to me so it couldn't have happened to you" line of thought a lot of bugs and issues wouldn't be looked at or fixed.

The only way to ''fix'' the system that is not currently broken would be to change the combat works entirely, to something people are more used to. Such as where you are aiming with your camera and not your character, or even make it so when you turn your camera so does your character like in many other games. The system is not broken, as i said. I am playing the game right now and the combat works, you can target whoever you want aslong as you know how(i am not going to explain it again, look at my previous posts..)

I would prefer it to stay this way, but for some reason the current system just goes way over peoples heads.

 

[challe232]

I really enjoy the combat, but I miss the aggressiveness of AI enemies in witcher 2. There are a lot of instances in witcher 3 where they dont all flank me at once, or if I step back a few feet, the AI don't move.. I never had this problem in witcher 2. Also, levelling up the sword attacks almost does too much. Other than that, game is amazing. I just haven't encountered much difficulty on death march yet..unless that changes toward end of game? First act of w2 on Normal was more difficult

 

[yoobzon]

Apart from humainods' inability to counter or do anythingg aboyt strong combos, the combat system is really good. Fights with monsters are always fluid, pacey and exciting. Like I said, Humanoids should be tweaked cos their approach kinda becomes lame and easily predictable once you get the hang of it.

As for the DS and Bloodborne comments, let me reiterate this: DS and Bloodborne are action adventures with some story elements. Take away the combat and the game would be terrible. It's a no brainer that the combat is more of a priority for From Software. It's apples and Oranges. The Witcher has a good combat system, if they fix the late game overlevelling the combat will be even more satisfying. Up until the Isles of Mists the combat is really exciting, I don't get all the bashing.

 

[Adon604]

I fully agree on combat being not up to level with the rest of the game, I'll just copy an paste my other reply from another thread


""Game is great overall but aside from player, and especially horse movement being clunky... I want to note I'm Playing on PC, using PS4 controller via InputMapper...

but..... Is it too hard to ask for a simple realistic swordplay from a game of this magnitude in 2015 ???
I understand it's a fantasy game but there's plenty of stuff for fantasy lovers, but the rest of us who want some realism, CD RED you couldn't at least have given us realistic sword combat ?? Yea I get you should throw in a few dodge/rolls or risk turning it into a buttom mash fest, I do that, but even then can it be really that hard to build a sword combat system that can stand on it's own two legs ??

First off, once you get close with your sword it's like they motion captured only 10 sword swings and 8 of them are 360 spins.
Secondly WHY oh WHY do the quick/light sword strikes half (if not most) the the time G-Money ends up doing some bullshhhh Hollywood 360 spinorama strike instead of simple precise crisp swing/stab/cut as one would think it'd be common sense for a quick/light strike.
There are PLENTY of Medieval weapons/warfare experts in Europe, (the re-enactors specifically) you couldn't hire one guy and motion capture some proper realistic sword hits ? Instead you slapped a motion capture suit on the accountant at the office and apparently told him the scenario was there are bees buzzing all around, kill them with your sword.

Trying to put together a swordfight via something swift and precise is impossible, not just because of the reasons I listed above, but also because of these reasons you're stuck in these long drawn out animations for too long, this isn't my opinion these things I'm talking about are facts there's no way around it. I'm wondering if patches or better yet future mods will be able to fix the combat ??
Summing this up would be like a Mixed Martial Arts fighter going into a fight, and almost exclusively using his roundhouse kicks/knees and spinning elbows/fists for the majority of his strikes, does that sound ridiculous to anyone ?

 

[Captainwaffle]

Alright here, i made a quick video. First fight i could find showing how targeting works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af8qrBDZoxs&feature=youtu.be

So take a look at the video if you have a hard time targeting who you intend to...

 

[yoobzon]

Alright here, i made a quick video. First fight i could find showing how targeting works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af8qrBDZoxs&feature=youtu.be

So take a look at the video if you have a hard time targeting who you intend to...

Great video, another myth disproved

Like I said, the problem is not the combat itself but simply the way you get overpowered by completing main quests late game. The combat in itself is 7.5/10 on my personal scale, which is great for such a vast game.

 

[HellKnightX88]

And that is correct but initially you said in capital letters that he attacks he enemy he's facing. And it's what threw me off. He attacks the enemy you point him towards via movement even if he's initially facing away from him. If you just leave him facing an enemy he will switch targets unless you continue to point him in that direction. What happened to me was was basically Geralt is facing an enemy, so I stop pointing him in a direction WASD and only click my mouse to attack. After 2 swings he "randomly" decides to stop attacking that dude and instead go for the dude that was blocking with a 2 handed axe.

 

[witcherDK]

The combat in my eyes are pretty straigt forward ( when the game dosent run at 20 fps witch is almost always on ps4)

but it does get abit werid at times, also i feel like they need to fix the lock on system and in boss fights it wont lock on sometimes.

it could also use alittle bloodborn animation injection that would help too

but other than that it's better than witcher 2 at least.