What do you think of this combat criticism?

+
I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkFqn1TMeH4

I watched and I've unfortunately had to agree with most of his points, there was a great opportunity with TW3 combat and I feel as if CDPR didn't fulfilled it at all, it even feels sometimes like a clunkily controlled AC combat


I have suggested in the comments idea as to how to fix it, ill paste it here:

- fix the targeting Uhm...there's nothing to fix. The hard lock is meant for 1 vs 1 fights. For 1 vs multiple enemies fights there is the soft lock.

- make the enemy AI more aggressive, and in groups will be able to flank (I mean really, Skyrim did this I'm sure The Witcher can) I agree.

- make the enemies able to riposte after couple of Geralt swings (like in The Witcher 2) I agree

- blocking should cost stamina (or another additional bar for that matter), and be less and less effective after each enemy consecutive swing I agree

- maybe even a make the dodges cost stamina I disagree. The entire system is based on dodge, and if it is cost stamina, there it would be really slow and a real pain in the ass. It would be better make the roll cost stamina


Agree with you Moonknight , however i could go with somethink to make Dodge Less spamable, or at least make the frames for the enemy to hit us be much much lower. Game gives you a whole second to think, if you go alchemy path it even slows down time, plain ridiculous.
 
People like in that video arent worth listening to, it is very clear he is more interested in slagging off the game than enjoying it and does so my finding every single flaw possible and often lying to make his case stronger.

As for the combat: all I know is that when I started Dark Souls in had without a doubt the worse controls I have ever tried, combat was bloody awful and was contemplating returning it such was the fury I had for it. I couldn't understand how it could have got all these awards and fan base... THEN suddenly something click, 130 odd hours later it is now in my top three games ever. That doesnt mean that I like everything about the combat/movement but it means that sometimes, nah most times, it is just one of many parts of a game. That is how I feel about Witcher I dont understand all these threads about how bad it is supposed to be, that doesnt mean I find it perfect, but given all the other systems throughout the whole game (expect inventory system) are so damn amazing, the slights flaws in the combat arent important to me.
 
If you are fine with it the way it is, good for you. I really wish the HARDEST setting to be a little harder.
 
It's almost like the AI doesn't really wanna fight you. All bark, but no bite.

---------- Updated at 02:42 AM ----------

People like in that video arent worth listening to, it is very clear he is more interested in slagging off the game than enjoying it and does so my finding every single flaw possible and often lying to make his case stronger.

As for the combat: all I know is that when I started Dark Souls in had without a doubt the worse controls I have ever tried, combat was bloody awful and was contemplating returning it such was the fury I had for it. I couldn't understand how it could have got all these awards and fan base... THEN suddenly something click, 130 odd hours later it is now in my top three games ever. That doesnt mean that I like everything about the combat/movement but it means that sometimes, nah most times, it is just one of many parts of a game. That is how I feel about Witcher I dont understand all these threads about how bad it is supposed to be, that doesnt mean I find it perfect, but given all the other systems throughout the whole game (expect inventory system) are so damn amazing, the slights flaws in the combat arent important to me.

The guy said it himself: it's a great game, but the combat isn't.
 
The combat has its flaws, but I enjoy it quite much. This guy's - while he has some fair points - just overreacting.
 
Love the combat, the only thing I would change is some more maneuvers or like you press both lmb and rmb. Or hold attack gives a different function. Something like that. However it's the closest any combat has come to illustrating the concept of tempo.
 
It's almost like the AI doesn't really wanna fight you. All bark, but no bite.

---------- Updated at 02:42 AM ----------




The guy said it himself: it's a great game, but the combat isn't.

here's my thing, why would they want to fight you? Why would little things like drowners and ghouls and the like want to actually engage you (a mutated human monster slaying machine armed with very sharp and shiny silver weapon) one on one. Of course they wouldnt want to fight you, but when they have their numbers they certainly would. In my experience in game the monsters that seem to run away from you are baiting you into a pack or trying to flee. It makes no sense for them to want to engage. We have got used to games having monsters that attack us for no reason so we have to kill them for no reason. Its nice to have the switch flipped and have mobs that try and avoid us if possible.
 
Last edited:
Generally when I die it's because I am spamming light attack and not paying attention to the battle. My fault entirely.
 
They should make the combat more like dark souls 2 or blood borne.


The best combat for any open world RPG IMO is still kingdom of alamur. Id kill for the combat to be like that in this game.
 
Alamur felt like a mmo to me. Dragons dogma is one of the best systems to come out recently. However mount and blade is king IMO .
 
The guy in this video is only level 5. Nothing credible about this criticism. Come back when you've invested more hours into the game and make the same statements. I've already invested well over 100+ hours and I would disagree with most of the points in the video that he makes. There are issues with the combat - that I'm certain of - but he doesn't mention any.

His first point about the soft locks being broken just isn't true. Yes, it is annoying at first - attacking an enemy only to leap to another without intentionally doing so - but you get the hang of it in time. The enemy that you attack with the soft lock depends less on the camera direction and more on WASD. Ex: If your camera is faced to the North, you have an enemy on your West side, and an Enemy to the East, pressing "A + M1" will attack the enemy on your left, and "D+M1" will attack the enemy on your right. This is incredibly useful when fighting groups of enemies as the AI is less likely to dodge attacks when they're not being focused - switching up and attacking various enemies within close range and not just focusing on one enemy at a time is highly effective because of this.

His second point about the human AI just standing there mid-fight was definitely a valid point. That obviously shouldn't happen; but in my playtime so far I've never encountered that situation, so this may have just been an odd circumstance or a small bug. Usually when they start to group up and rally, they will send one enemy to you at a time. Although, this isn't usually the case. Most of the time the group will just attack you as a whole.

His third point about the repetitiveness of parrying then striking was dumb. If you stand there and use the same move over and over, of course the combat is going to be repetitive. I think what he was actually trying to demonstrate was that there wasn't another way to attack the human - i.e. that he had to parry in order to open him up for an attack. If this is what he was trying to say, it simply isn't true. There are plenty of ways to open them up and attack - 1) Any and every sign, 2) Dancing Star (light on fire), Grapeshot (to weaken shields and groups), and just about any other bomb aside from Moon Dust etc., 3) Hit with a light attack mid-swing (if timed right, you will be able to land a hit on a human mid-swing if you can anticipate it), 4) Turning humans on each other (with relevant perks in Signs skill tree), 5) Luring guards in line of sight of an archer, causing them to be unintentionally struck in the back by an arrow (my personal favorite), 6) Making use of explosive barrels in the environment, etc. etc. etc... If you're going to stand in one spot, press two buttons, and then whine about how the combat system is boring and broken, then that's a pretty shitty review. Play the game more and then come back once you have a better understanding of it.

Basically this. /\

I've played and beaten some of the hardest combat-oriented games around and I find the combat in The Witcher 3 to be quite good.

I honestly think many of those who are complaining are simply not that good at games in general. It seems that maybe they've spent a lot of time getting good at some other game's combat and aren't very adaptable to a new system, so they blame their poor performance in combat on the system itself, just because it doesn't work exactly the same way as the other game they're used to.

I feel very in control during combat in the Witcher 3. If I die it's almost always because I made a mistake, not because it didn't do what I wanted or expected it to do. I find the combat to be responsive, strategic, fluid, visually appealing, decently challenging and very enjoyable.
 
- blocking should cost stamina (or another additional bar for that matter), and be less and less effective after each enemy consecutive swing
- maybe even a make the dodges cost stamina
- speed down the fast attacks and the roll-dodge
- make attacks more "Weighty" (if that sounds reasonable to you)

No thank you.
I paid for a Witcher game not a Souls game where your character doesnt even have average human stamina and can only swing a sword 3-4 times.

Plus slowing down is just plain dumb.
It was mocapped, that means its the speed of a normal human.
Geralt should be even faster actually.
 
Last edited:
No thank you.
I paid for a Witcher game not a Souls game where your character doesnt even have average human stamina and can only swing a sword 3-4 times.

Plus slowing is just plain dumb.
It was mocapped, that means its the speed of a normal human.
Geralt should be even faster actually.

It's blatantly obvious that a lot of these people are simply fanatical Souls/Bloodborne fans who slag off the Witcher 3's combat for no other reason than that it isn't exactly like those games. A lot of their complaints don't even make sense for this game.

I've beaten Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne and I do like them, but they aren't without their faults. The combat system works well in the overall context of those games, but it isn't perfect and I certainly don't want The Witcher 3 or other games to play just like it.
 
It's blatantly obvious that a lot of these people are simply fanatical Souls/Bloodborne fans who slag off the Witcher 3's combat for no other reason than that it isn't exactly like those games. A lot of their complaints don't even make sense for this game.

I've beaten Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne and I do like them, but they aren't without their faults. The combat system works well in the overall context of those games, but it isn't perfect and I certainly don't want The Witcher 3 or other games to play just like it.

Agreed.
I also dont understand the complaints about Igni either.
If you are set on fire you are going to burn and in a lot of pain, you are not going to fight back.
It IS a lot better than the enemy just getting a debuff(basically bleeding) and continue to fight like nothing happened.

If someone wants Dark Souls go play Dark Souls.
Still, Dragon's Dogma and Witcher 3 has the best combat and gameplay out of all RPGs that i played.

Note: I dont consider Souls games and BB RPGs since they have dont qualify for one, despite being marketed as one.
They are good games on their own and they can be challenging, but i cant say that their combat is system is as much fun as DD's or W3's.
 
My problem with unwanted target switching is that I am facing my opponent (with camera), I click and then Geralt attacks the wall (or the air) to his side (no enemies in that direction), or jumps to a side to attack an enemy there, without me doing anything with the mouse but just clicking to attack.
 
Like every other game, it takes a while to get used to the little details of the attack gameplay. The guy in the video complained that Geralt was not attacking the right NPC. He didn't seem to realize that Geralt will attack the NPC that is closest to the middle of your screen. In other words, you can move your mouse, and roughly aim where Geralt is attacking. Intuitive enough for me to pick it up early.

Note, I play with different input than most players. I use a joystick and trackball. That means when I attack, I press the trigger-button on my joystick. And the joystick-software makes it look like I pressed the letter Y. Not a mouse button. Maybe if you have the mouse button for attack, it does something different. (As you can do movement with the mouse+mouseclick too). But for me, it works great.

The guy in the video also changed between super-easy to super-hard in the middle of the fight. And he assumed that would change everything about the NPCs. But is that true ? My first guess would be no. If I were a programmer at CDPR I would set all properties of an NPC when they spawn. After that, the properties would stay the same. When he changed difficulty on the fly, I didn't see the NPCs health change. So why would their attack-power or defense change ? If he wanted to test difficulty-levels, he should have done it differently.
A lot of confusion, everywhere in life, is because people test something they don't understand. They make the false assumptions. See stuff they don't understand. And then make false conclusions. That could very well be the case here.

NPCs that don't attack, on very-easy mode ? Yeah, I could see that would be intentional. It's called very-easy for a reason.

Last remark: I fully agree with the thought that these are all Dark Souls players. I tried DS1 and DS2. The artwork, the lore, the environments, everything looked fantastic. But then I tried to play the game. Retarded gameplay. The fact that there is a "lockon" button, and that you need to use it, is proof that the combat in DS is broken. I can circlestrafe perfectly. And could do that since the previous century. If you need a lockon-button, that means you agree that your movement is so broken, that you don't expect the average player to be able to deal with it.
And now they all want that same broken combat in all other games. No thanks.
 
I think it's disappointing that there are so many complaints regarding movement and combat. Some feel the current system is fine, but obviously an issue exists for some people.

When it comes to fundamentals like movement and gameplay, Devs gotta make sure they nail these. With all the posts on these fundamentals, it's fair to say they didn't.
 
Top Bottom