What do you want the Cyberprotag to be like?

[Odinsauge]

but when you are creating your character design his manner to act and react to the world that is roleplay...

But voice acting per se doesn't interfere with that definition. It can influence the final experience, sure and it can lead to less dialog choices but it doesn't declare something to non-RPG.
Look at the DSA games, they really stick to their P&P rules but you are still limited in you you interact with the world. I see limited interaction more breaking the role-playing than having a 'predefined' character.

Also ME is a bad example also it is marked as an Action-RPG as far as I remember.

 

[CTPhipps]

But voice acting per se doesn't interfere with that definition. It can influence the final experience, sure and it can lead to less dialog choices but it doesn't declare something to non-RPG.
Look at the DSA games, they really stick to their P&P rules but you are still limited in you you interact with the world. I see limited interaction more breaking the role-playing than having a 'predefined' character.

Also ME is a bad example also it is marked as an Action-RPG as far as I remember.

Ideally, we'd get something like the original Deus Ex for problem resolution.

REALISTICALLY?

I see it will probably be a combat game with lots of combat options and roleplaying in city areas.

 

[Sardukhar]

I see it will probably be a combat game with lots of combat options and roleplaying in city areas.

I didn't have a lot of non combat options in Deus Ex, either. Sneak, mostly. Get caught, fight.

I'd agree with you about the odds of CP2077 being mostly a combat game...only CDPR is really going at it. Lots of time, lots of people. I think they are trying to pop out of that envelope. True, they could just be building a big map, but they already have those skills, and the RedEngine..I really think a lot of time is being spent on deeper gameplay.

 

[CTPhipps]

I didn't have a lot of non combat options in Deus Ex, either. Sneak, mostly. Get caught, fight.

I'd agree with you about the odds of CP2077 being mostly a combat game...only CDPR is really going at it. Lots of time, lots of people. I think they are trying to pop out of that envelope. True, they could just be building a big map, but they already have those skills, and the RedEngine..I really think a lot of time is being spent on deeper gameplay.

I'm comfortable with gameplay which is mostly combat as long as the story is good.

What I want is an immersive cyberpunk simulation with everything else secondary.

Also, characters who feel like I could watch a movie about them or read a novel and it would be just as good.

 

[darcler]

Roleplaying is about playing a role - what's the difference who's designing it? Although I understand that someone might feel overly limited when trying to roleplay a character he didn't create himself, but saying that you can't roleplay a pre-made character is a bit of a stretch.

 

[CTPhipps]

Roleplaying is about playing a role - what's the difference who's designing it? Although I understand that someone might feel overly limited when trying to roleplay a character he didn't create himself, but saying that you can't roleplay a pre-made character is a bit of a stretch.

As badly imitated as it was, I felt Dragon Age 2 did a decent job of providing different kinds of archetypes to play.

Good, Softspoken
Angry, Aggressive
Funny

And I honestly forget the fourth one.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

On a side note, It will be amazing if paradox(owner of WW license) worked with CDPR to create a WOD game. I know they are working with obsidian, but I suspect whatever they release will be a disappointment. Most likely a very toned down game with none of the magic that made VTM:B special.

Obsidian has two of the key members from the studio that made VtMB the game it is (one of them being the project lead/art director), both of whom also made Fallout and Arcanum. Why wouldn't they manage the "magic that made VtMB special"?

They are working on an unannounced game at Obsidian with Tim Cain (the Fallout inventor) speculated to be the project lead (he was cited as such somewhere with no previous experience on that position in Obsidian), and it's also speculated to be using the Unreal engine. Might well be we'll be getting a VtMB sequel - or another Vampire the Masquerade game - from there at some point.

I really think a lot of time is being spent on deeper gameplay.

I would hope so,

 

[CTPhipps]

Obsidian announced a new fantasy game teaser...which is disappointing as I think everyone wants a new V:TM game or Fallout from Obsidian.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

They've been indirectly talking about it for months so it was just a matter of time. I'm not too happy about it, I tired of fantasy, but this is how it goes. There's still that other game I talked about in the making, which hopefully will not be a fantasy game.

 

[Rawls]

While I appreciate customization of sex and appearance, I'm hoping we actually have a history in the game. I don't think most blank slate protagonists have nearly the same level of depth as Geralt or Adam Jensen so it'd be nice for us to have a history we can explore as the CyberProtag. I'm not sure how much that's going to be an option but it'd be interesting to assume a role which we can shape but still grounds us to the setting's "Reality." What do you want from the CyberProtag?

Well if they stick to the CP role system - or something close to it (which is a big IF), they will likely have at least some rudimentary different histories for the player character. This is because the roles are so divergent they almost require different backgrounds. Nomads and Corporate's don't frequently start in the same place you know? Having said that I would be very surprised if they went with character backgrounds that are as well defined as Geralt of Rivia. I would also be very surprised if it was like Skyrim where you're a completely blank slate. It almost has to be somewhere in between those two. Something more like Fallout 4 or Mass Effect (the original). I'm not suggesting they be the inspiration specifically, as CDPR can do better than either - and I would hope for more depth, but they both have a little bit of history and color to the PC before you start really getting to roleplay them. However, it's not so much history that you feel obligated to go with any particular choice based on the history. It's true that blank slates don't have the same depth as designed characters ... but I think PCs that are customized by the player can be done well. I also think Cyberpunks style almost demands customization. Does that make sense?

As to the main questions "What do I want from Cyberprotag?" To quote my dusty CP2020 rulebook:

Whether it takes committing crimes, defying authority or even outright revolution, the quintessential Cyberpunk 2020 character is a rebel without a cause. As a Cyberpunk role-player, it's up to you to find that cause and go to the wall with it. This is the essence of Cyberpunk - playing your character with the proper disaffected-yet-idealistic style.

As long as the PC generally fits into that description and it's done well ... I'll be happy. Also, I really want the PC to be voiced because it's more affecting for me that way. Customization of appearance is a plus because appearance and style are important to the setting.

Ultimately, I would rather have a pre-set than a completely blank slate generally speaking as it does make for better storytelling in most video games I have played. However, I think somewhere in the middle will be the sweet spot for this game.

 

[Mebrilia]

Roleplaying is about playing a role - what's the difference who's designing it? Although I understand that someone might feel overly limited when trying to roleplay a character he didn't create himself, but saying that you can't roleplay a pre-made character is a bit of a stretch.

Well is simple don't feel like roleplay too me... Many game with a set protagonist and voiced one always ends to restrict the player to play variations on how that character react to the world... So if you attempt to put something of yours to roleplay the character you will always end to be disappointed.....

Speaking about dragon age:
Some claimed to had roleplayed as hawke from the 2 now... for those that made hawke a bloodmage in inquisition hawke is like...

Hawke: I hate blood mages.....

This invalidate the choices a player did when created his personal hawke this also mean that as a set protagonist in this case basically the devs told you (Hey player sorry for plot issue now your choices are never happened) and chosing between: Sarcastic,Aggressive,Diplomatic is not roleplay if this ends with your character accepting a quest in different tones... This usually happen a lot with voiced protagonist games... like a lot...

Problem is... When you have to write for a RPG you have to write with reactions in mind... Now imagine that you are even forced to cut a lot of parts because the character has to be voiced and voice acting cost a lot... This will lead to cut dialogue content... Cut roleplay possibility and also harming the setting because you have to contain the costs for voice acting and for many npc will be registered only one liner dialogues.... I loved witcher 3 but if you compare the average not plot or quest related npc on the game with the not plot related or quest related npc's of Planescape Torment you will see the difference... When you don't have to cover voice acting cost you are free from restriction and with is you can also put a lot of additional dialogue to give the setting even more Depth...

I think a total premade protagonist were good for the witcher... But when you have to make a game based on a pen and paper is better you do the possibility to create and design your own character or you will miss totally the pen and paper roleplay spirit from the game.

I am fine if the protagonist will have a preset past...But
Handled like in shadowrun games... Generic and hinted... Not ala mass effect...

 

[darcler]

Well is simple don't feel like roleplay too me... Many game with a set protagonist and voiced one always ends to restrict the player to play variations on how that character react to the world... So if you attempt to put something of yours to roleplay the character you will always end to be disappointed.....

I do agree with that, but any role poses limitations, even if it's one chosen by yourself. Otherwise there could be no role. To use Geralt as an example of a pre-made character: yes, he's this outcast, a cynic, a man doubting his own identity, an eternal wanderer without a place in the world, a sword-for-hire who earns his money thanks to other peoples' plight, but at the same time not without kindness in his heart, not without love and care, ready to jump in fire for his friends' sake, and travel to the ends of the world to help ones he holds dear. It's up to the player to pick which side of him to expose, even though both of them are still true, still present, and still manifest themselves on various occasions.

Of course there are limitations for your choices, as Geralt would not start wantonly murder everything in sight, then join some random bandits to rape and pillage the lands. But even if you'd play as a bandit, you'd still have to limit your choices, even if the game wouldn't at this point set the limits for you. You wouldn't go around helping everyone in need out of the kindness of your heart. You wouldn't be giving beggar a coin, or food to hungry orphans. And you would know precisely zilch about monsters, so the first random drowner would most likely bite your head off.

As for the voiced protagonist, well, technical and resource limitations are adding to the mix, I agree. I'm fine with both voiced and mute characters, but all depends on the implementation. A good-bad example of late is the disaster of a pre-made voiced character in Fallout 4. Yet seldom a game made me stop and think hard on what I was about to say like TW3 with its voiced Geralt.

 

[CTPhipps]

Well, all of CD_Projekt Reds games so far have had a voiced protagonist and it was one of their signature things early on so I don't see that changing. I also think the well-defined personality was a good thing because it allowed a deeper story to be told. Absolutely, it sacrificed some level of choice to tell a richer tale.

Because if you can do everything, you can't do anything.

The character who can be a psychopath and a saint can't be either and be consistent.

Ironically, I actually agree the Hawke depicted in DA:I had some issues as there were some which just flat out didn't make sense.

 

[Suhiira]

A good-bad example of late is the disaster of a pre-made voiced character in Fallout 4. Yet seldom a game made me stop and think hard on what I was about to say like TW3 with its voiced Geralt.

This is really the heart of it. If your in-game decisions are all cut-n-dry "good" vs "evil" there are of course only those two options for your character (or player). The more "grey" a situation, and your options are, the better. Its a bit of a standing joke that the RPG crowd tends to over analyze everything (and some certainly do!), but choices, and the repercussions thereof, are at the very heart of what makes an RPG and RPG. If your choice is "+5 with handguns" vs "+5 with SMGs" as in many action games it's not really a choice with any "personal" repercussions.

 

[CTPhipps]

This is really the heart of it. If your in-game decisions are all cut-n-dry "good" vs "evil" there are of course only those two options for your character (or player). The more "grey" a situation, and your options are, the better. Its a bit of a standing joke that the RPG crowd tends to over analyze everything (and some certainly do!), but choices, and the repercussions thereof, are at the very heart of what makes an RPG and RPG. If your choice is "+5 with handguns" vs "+5 with SMGs" as in many action games it's not really a choice with any "personal" repercussions.

I want a character who reflects the moral ambiguity and darkness of the situation but I understand if a lot of people want something more upbeat as well as a chance to do the "right" thing. For me, I'd like this world to be one where that isn't always possible or desirable. If the game forces me, kicking and screaming, to do the right thing I want the option to be like Johnny in Johnny Mnemonic.

By contrast, I also want the game to avoid stupid evil.

No one should be wanting to kick puppies for their own sake but for "realistic" motives.

Say If I was a game designer, I'd like a quest like this:

A popular anti-establishment Rockerboy named Easy-P has been killed in his hotel room by a pair of cops. The megacorporation who hired you to investigate his death wants to cover it up because they fear it will result in riots in the city and revenge against local police by his fans. You investigate and discover the cops who killed him did so, not because he was being profiled or to stop his "message" but because Easy-P was sleeping with the first cop's wife, who was Easy-P's secretary. At the end of the mission, you have footage of the murder and can do any number of the following choices...

1. Cover up the murder for the corporation and take out the corrupt cops.
2. Reveal the footage on the web
3. Blackmail the corporation into more money
4. Convince one of the cops to turn on the other so the police handle it internally.
5. Get paid and betray the corporation by releasing it on the web.
6. Help the cop get away with the crime because his wife was pressured into sex and wants her husband to get away with it.

I.e. Something like the Werewolf Murder Quest in Witcher 3 in terms of moral ambiguity.

 

[Suhiira]

Good scenario !

Additionally there should be long-term repercussions. The corp is question may be pissed or pleased with you, the cops in general maybe be pissed/pleased, individuals directly effected will have their own opinions about you. All this is fairly easy to do in a PnP game, much more difficult in a PC/console one.

 

[CTPhipps]

Good scenario !

Additionally there should be long-term repercussions. The corp is question may be pissed or pleased with you, the cops in general maybe be pissed/pleased, individuals directly effected will have their own opinions about you. All this is fairly easy to do in a PnP game, much more difficult in a PC/console one.

One thing which the original game had was "Rep" where your actions influenced people's opinions of you.

Both good and bad.

That may be too much, though.

 

[Suhiira]

One thing which the original game had was "Rep" where your actions influenced people's opinions of you.

Both good and bad.

That may be too much, though.

Hopefully not, it's something I'd really like to see in the game. The folks that murder puppies for fun in games should face in-game consequences for their actions.

 

[0248991]

Hi,

RANDOM TALK
I think many games has something like final boss, which is unavoidable. Game has different endings afterwards, but you just need to defeat the "bad guy". I think this just strengthens players mind about that there is pure evil and pure good in the world.
Reason why I like Wild Hunt is that there is no final boss. Sure, you fight Eredin, but in first, its part of something bigger, and secondary, I consider White Frost to be "final boss" and this is made mysteriously and without fight, so you don't feel like savior of world, but killer of some random bad guy elf. At least for me it's the case.

IDEA FOR PROTAGONIST
Siam girl twins, which were seperated by surgical intervention. They had some organs shared in theirs body, which are now replaced by cyber subtitutes. First is relatively good and second is somehow bad - you know, shades of grey - but they share a lot of similar, also. You can meet them in game, do some mission for/with them, influence their feelings for each other. Their characters evolve and you begin to know them better and better. At the end of game, the bad one becomes pregnant, but after huge medical testing, it seems that child will be cripple because of illness transfer from mother. The good one becomes angry and tries to talk some sense to her sister, that she should let the child be killed, because of it probably will not be able to live full and enjoyable life. Doctors on the other hand recommend to use cyber subtitutes on the child. So there appears ethical problem and several questions, like who human is - just brain with soul and behaviour, or the whole body able to live and reproduce - and so on. Maybe this case is published, discussed and watched by public, shared by media and so on. At the final, player, who knows both os sisters somehow gets to scene (f.e. is invited by one or both of the sisters, because she/they trust him from previous quests; OR because he uses cyber parts also, he is invited to media discussion, OR whatever else) and can somehow decide or influence outcome of this problematic.Game could have several endings including murder of bad pregnant twin by her sister, successful birth of crippled baby, which is enhanced by cyber parts, and so on. Whatever ending, there could be huge demonstrations, maybe even attacks and fights on streets; OR just totally silent dark city with everyone thinking about these events OR whatever else.

If you read it all, congratulations

 

[CTPhipps]

Hi,

RANDOM TALK
I think many games has something like final boss, which is unavoidable. Game has different endings afterwards, but you just need to defeat the "bad guy". I think this just strengthens players mind about that there is pure evil and pure good in the world.
Reason why I like Wild Hunt is that there is no final boss. Sure, you fight Eredin, but in first, its part of something bigger, and secondary, I consider White Frost to be "final boss" and this is made mysteriously and without fight, so you don't feel like savior of world, but killer of some random bad guy elf. At least for me it's the case.

Eh, I'd definitely consider Eredin a Final Boss in the traditional sense given he's the primary threat to Ciri. He's also the Prince/Ruler of another planet and an existential threat to the Witcher's world. Plus, the fact he's also murdered your friend from Skellige. Still, I understand what you mean. In Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, much of the game builds up to the final confrontation with Viktor Marchenko who is a stereotypical borged-out combat monster.

The problem is he's kind of a poor final boss because Viktor isn't even the Illuminati's Darth Vader (like Jason Namir from Deus Ex: Human Revolution) but more like their Gunther Hermann. He's just a patsy they're using and defeating him brings you no closer to defeating the Illuminati. In Cyberpunk 2077, there's plenty of cyborg badasses you can fight and Psychos but I don't know if any of them will be a satisfying opponent since the real dangers are guys in boardrooms.

IDEA FOR PROTAGONIST
Siam girl twins, which were seperated by surgical intervention. They had some organs shared in theirs body, which are now replaced by cyber subtitutes. First is relatively good and second is somehow bad - you know, shades of grey - but they share a lot of similar, also. You can meet them in game, do some mission for/with them, influence their feelings for each other. Their characters evolve and you begin to know them better and better. At the end of game, the bad one becomes pregnant, but after huge medical testing, it seems that child will be cripple because of illness transfer from mother. The good one becomes angry and tries to talk some sense to her sister, that she should let the child be killed, because of it probably will not be able to live full and enjoyable life. Doctors on the other hand recommend to use cyber subtitutes on the child. So there appears ethical problem and several questions, like who human is - just brain with soul and behaviour, or the whole body able to live and reproduce - and so on. Maybe this case is published, discussed and watched by public, shared by media and so on. At the final, player, who knows both os sisters somehow gets to scene (f.e. is invited by one or both of the sisters, because she/they trust him from previous quests; OR because he uses cyber parts also, he is invited to media discussion, OR whatever else) and can somehow decide or influence outcome of this problematic.Game could have several endings including murder of bad pregnant twin by her sister, successful birth of crippled baby, which is enhanced by cyber parts, and so on. Whatever ending, there could be huge demonstrations, maybe even attacks and fights on streets; OR just totally silent dark city with everyone thinking about these events OR whatever else.

If you read it all, congratulations

Interesting idea. Sounds more like a sidequest, though.