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What does DRM achieve, and does piracy equal lost sales?

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V

volsung

Forum veteran
#741
Jan 15, 2015
It's simple.

Computers run many tasks all the time, but a single CPU can only run ONE at a time. Normally there are many tasks to perform, more than CPU's or CPU cores, so tasks are queued and are given CPU time in one or another processing scheme. This means that tasks that take too long to finish will have to be constantly queued again and this means that the more tasks there are, the longer standing in line will take and therefore the longer each task will have to wait to be serviced again.

All of these tasks require resources, such as CPU time, memory, disk access, network access, etc. So in a way they also compete for resources. The more tasks there are using the network or the disk, the longer it will take for the whole set to finish.

Operating systems run a lot of background tasks that control the whole computer and use up resources. Add to that user space applications such as text editors, web browsers, or games. Some applications, such as games, require much more dedication than others to function properly. However if there are a lot of applications to run, resources will be split accordingly. Some applications have priority over others, so while we run a game our web browser in the background may not interfere much. However some others remain in the foreground, and demand constant CPU time, memory, disk access, etc.

Most types of modern DRM are like that last type. They require computing resources to launch the game and to keep it running, and essentially take a chunk of computing power away that could be used in making the game run better. In extreme cases you will notice the difference, for instance in framerate. Imagine that while you run your game, another program needs CPU time, dedicated memory, and may even request access to game files which in turn slows down their proper utilization within the game.

If you wanted to measure the effect of a game with and without DRM, you'd have to create a controlled scenario with a computer running a certain amount of background and system processes and then run both versions and measure their performance. But this measure would be dependent on several things, such as the type of DRM used, the type of game, and your own computer. For instance, perhaps a 2D adventure game isn't as heavily affected by a background process as a computing-intensive game like The Witcher 2. In the old days games used simple copy protection such as a CD-key check during installation, so this scheme doesn't interfere with actual gameplay, while others such as SecuROM and Denuvo evidently do. The computer might affect measured performance too, it wouldn't be the same if you run a set of processes that fill up your RAM and required virtual memory (ugh!) vs. a set of processes that barely use up 50% of your memory. Also not the same having more L1 cache with a multicore processor.

Summarizing, the "impact of DRM in game performance" is a function of several variables, and I don't think it can be generalized across games and/or DRM systems. One thing is for sure though, any DRM-related performance loss greater than 0 is already too much, since it is unnecessary and unethical.
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#742
Jan 21, 2015
Project Apollo 1201 aims to eradicate DRM:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150120/10402929760/cory-doctorow-to-push-ending-drm.shtml
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/cory-doctorow-rejoins-eff-eradicate-drm-everywhere

Let's see how much progress they'll make.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#743
Feb 18, 2015
An unusual quote from a Disney exec about DRM:

"If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it works, we've already failed."

Peter Lee, a Disney executive, 2005.
Click to expand...
The remark is admitting that DRM is a futile endeavor, but it's malignant at the same time, since it's implying that they'd rather hide DRM in order for users not to notice it. Some already thought of hidden surveillance in 2005...
 
Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
V

volsung

Forum veteran
#744
Feb 18, 2015
I think he might have meant it should be transparent, like a DNS and DHCP for a regular network user. But the implications are the same: not knowing makes surveillance easier.
 
T

TheDeathRun

Rookie
#745
Feb 18, 2015
Gilrond said:
An unusual quote from a Disney exec about DRM:



The remark is admitting that DRM is a futile endeavor, but it's malignant at the same time, since it's implying that they'd rather hide DRM in order for users not to notice it. Some already thought of hidden surveillance in 2005...
Click to expand...
Really? I actually interpreted it slightly differently. I think he meant that DRM should be completely unobtrusive. That is to say, even if a game has DRM, if that DRM is really successful at its job the user should never notice/remember it's even there. It does its job, and it doesn't take away from your experience with the game in any way. That is the ideal form of DRM I guess, although as of now it's extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#746
Feb 18, 2015
thedeathrun said:
Really? I actually interpreted it slightly differently. I think he meant that DRM should be completely unobtrusive. That is to say, even if a game has DRM, if that DRM is really successful at its job the user should never notice/remember it's even there.
Click to expand...
Well, that's exactly how I understood too. I.e. completely hidden surveillance which is "unobtrusive" in order not to alert clueless users (because if they'd have known about such spying they'd resent it). It's "ideal" form for those who want that kind of total control, but it's the nastiest in essence - i.e. hidden peeping.
 
Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
T

TheDeathRun

Rookie
#747
Feb 18, 2015
Gilrond said:
Well, that's exactly how I understood too. I.e. completely hidden surveillance which is "unobtrusive" in order not to alert clueless users (because if they'd have known about such spying they'd resent it). It's "ideal" form for those who want that kind of total control, but it's the nastiest in essence - i.e. hidden peeping.
Click to expand...
Now I'm more confused. I was under the impression ideal DRM doesn't spy on the user, it merely protects the game from being pirated. So the ideal DRM, according to the executive, does its job without distracting the user from the game. The user doesn't know it's there, and the user doesn't need to because it's not harmful in any way. It's like how there are massive amounts of calculations that you don't see going on behind the scenes while you're playing a game, or at least it's a similar idea. Anyways since this kind of DRM is ideal and not currently possible, there's not much point discussing it I guess. I'm still behind CDPR's approach.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#748
Feb 18, 2015
You can read this whole thread above which explains in details the common intentions behind DRM. Here is how it was voiced by its proponents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#Background

In August 2000, statements by Sony Pictures Entertainment US senior VP Steve Heckler foreshadowed the events of late 2005. Heckler told attendees at the Americas Conference on Information Systems "The industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams... It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what... Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user. We will firewall Napster at source - we will block it at your cable company. We will block it at your phone company. We will block it at your ISP. We will firewall it at your PC... These strategies are being aggressively pursued because there is simply too much at stake."[
Click to expand...
DRM is an expression of control urge which spills into unethical overreaching preemptive policing. Spying is a natural part of it, that's why it's commonly found in most egregious DRM types. I.e. ideal DRM from their perspective is one that can spy by reading and preferably controlling user's mind before user even can start thinking about pirating.

Here is a good reading on the subject in Sci Fi form which colorfully describes the perils of overreaching preemptive policing: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29579/29579-h/29579-h.htm
 
Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#749
Feb 27, 2015
But see, anti-piracy is not about stopping piracy, it's about controlling an innovation that someone outside the club came up with.

Lexi Alexander
Click to expand...
She summarized it brilliantly. That's exactly what most crooked amongst DRM proponents are interested in.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#750
Apr 17, 2015
Gilrond - that latest post was straying just a bit too far into political discussion.

But there's also another EFF campaign at the moment that's of importance to gamers, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned it already ;)

They're trying to get a DMCA exemption to allow people to hack abandoned games, so that they can still play them.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/videogame-publishers-no-preserving-abandoned-games-even-museums-and-archives
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#751
Apr 17, 2015
@Dragonbird : The one I linked before (in the deleted post) is of far greater importance, including for gamers. What can you do, politicians interfere with these things. So trying to ignore it won't serve any good purpose.

Regarding exemptions to DMCA. While EFF do the right thing in that context, it's really just about masking symptoms of the disease. To cure it, those anti-circumvention laws need to be repealed to begin with (instead of expanding them, like DRM proponents want through TPP, Fast Track and so on). Those exemptions aren't going to fix the situation IMHO, especially since they are temporary and randomly change every time they are reviewed. But of course, it's better than nothing, so it should be supported as well.
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#752
Apr 20, 2015
Wikileaks published a quite embarrassing for the DRM lobby piece about their concerted effort to create massive censorship friendly environment through various levels of propaganda: https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/104331

OBJECTIVE OF CONFAB:

The objective of the session is to put us in the best position possible to make a decision as to whether we should proceed to the next steps in seeking site blocking in the US.

* The first step is a pre-phase in which we will get prepared and try to create a more favorable environment for site blocking. This would involve multiple parallel tracks. Without attempting to be exhaustive, those tracks include:

* Outreach to respected technologists to begin to forge agreement on technical facts and site blocking efficacy — and, where possible, garner policy support for site blocking (or at least dampen opposition to it).

* Continued research and record building on the effectiveness of site blocking.

* Outreach to academics, think tanks and other third parties to foster the publication of research papers, white papers and other articles that tell the positive story of site blocking: e.g., it is commonplace around the world and working smoothly; it has not broken the internet; it is not incompatible with DNSSEC; it is effective; legitimate sites/content have not been blocked; etc.

* Building the record (and telling the story) that the sorts of sites at issue are dangerous. It is not just copyright infringement. Kids are one-click away from identity theft, graphic porn, malware, etc. Parent groups, consumer protection groups and other third parties can be cultivated to speak out against such predatory sites.

* Telling the positive story of the widespread availability of legitimate content.

* At the right time, we would quietly approach ISPs with which we have good relationships and which we believe might consider cooperating with us to test US site blocking.
Click to expand...
I guess by "commonplace around the world" they mean known notorious censorship regimes?
 
Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#753
Apr 28, 2015
Bethesda claims to be anti-DRM.

However the glaring failure to release their games on GOG speaks more than their PR-talk. Way to show you are real hypocrites who rush to do damage control, and can't even say the truth.
 
Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
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Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#754
May 6, 2015
EU moves to abolish geoblocking: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4919_en.htm

That's a good step for repealing obsolete discriminatory copyright practices which plague many digital releases. But it won't be enough to fix it globally. At least it's a good start for Europe.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#755
May 31, 2015
Techdirt wrote about CDPR, TW3 and in-game mocking of DRM.
 
Z

zvucnjak

Rookie
#756
May 31, 2015
I've always wondered how they calculate "lost sales" and come up with those figures... It never made sense to me...

I come from a country where most people are very poor and legal software is as rare as Tonkin Snub Nosed Monkeys! I know for a fact that most of the people wouldn't even play games if it wasn't for pirates.
Some download pirated versions just to try the games and see if they're any good *(since devs stopped making demo versions for some inexplicable reason), and then either end up buying the game eventually, or more often they don't like it and delete it...

What those people do do, is they discuss the game at length with their friends, on online forums, social networks, YouTube, etc.

So the way I see it is this:
Without piracy, there would be a certain number of people that buys games.
With piracy, there is approximately the same number of people that buys games, but a LOT more people that talks about games and raises awareness... (and eventually maybe even raising that number)

Don't forget, Word of Mouth is still the most trusted form of marketing.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#757
Jun 14, 2015
Cozy relationship between USTR and ESA, MPAA and RIAA exposed.

In particular their direct influence and access to TPP. If you don't know, ESA is a trade group for legacy DRM obsessed publishers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Association

They are responsible for nasty legislative efforts and push for draconian "trade agreements". They supported SOPA, ACTA and all similar kind of trash like TPP.

Take a note of the list of members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Association#List_of_ESA_members_and_their_subsidiaries

CDPR should be proud about not being on the list ;D
 
Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
S

ShivaSi

Senior user
#758
Jun 15, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan said:
[...]I guess by "commonplace around the world" they mean known notorious censorship regimes?
Click to expand...
No, it means paid studies and sponsored papers to present and support their side of story. This is commonplace since the advent of technology and industry.

For an ideea how this works, check the story of Clair Cameron Patterson and his fight against lead poisoning
 
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V

volsung

Forum veteran
#759
Jun 15, 2015
Gilrond-i-Virdan said:
Cozy relationship between USTR and ESA, MPAA and RIAA exposed.

In particular their direct influence and access to TPP. If you don't know, ESA is a trade group for legacy DRM obsessed publishers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Association

They are responsible for nasty legislative efforts and push for draconian "trade agreements". They supported SOPA, ACTA and all similar kind of trash like TPP.

Take a note of the list of members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Association#List_of_ESA_members_and_their_subsidiaries

CDPR should be proud about not being on the list ;D
Click to expand...
That's quite a list. It's good to know what to avoid, thanks.

Nowadays the truly interesting games don't come from those companies anyway.
 
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Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#760
Jul 29, 2015
TPP is nearing finalization. Speak up against it:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/07/secret-tpp-talks-continue-hawaii-deal-grows-more-controversial
https://act.eff.org/action/stop-the-tpp-s-copyright-trap
 
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