What game are you currently playing

[Spockprime]

CP2077's narrative suffered due to emphasising a timer without actually being one.

Something that's easily avoidable by... Not writing in a timer in the first place lmao. Like, literally, the narrative wouldn't have changed a single iota if Viktor didn't give you a "Two week" timer and just stated that he couldn't remove the chip and left it at that.

V would still be urged to remove it ASAP, because no-one wants some random washed up rockstar living in their head. But it wouldn't be "I only have 2 weeks to live... So lets go on a grand tour of the entire city helping out random citizens for 5 months"

As far as timers and choices go... I've played my fair share of timed games. Things like the early Atelier games, Dragon's Breath IV, Adeptus Mechanicus etc.

I've never, even a single time, had a choice be given more meaning because of a timer.

If anything it just removes choice by having the decision come down to "Can I afford to spend time on this?" rather than "How do I approach this?"

With the worst being those Atelier games, where it pushes me to want to make a spreadsheet detailing the exact materials required to craft one of every item in the game and craft every quest item so that I can precisely gather only the minimum I need to save time as well as figure out exactly how many battles I can afford to get into and thus what levels I can get to.

You know... Instead of just enjoying the game and putzing around exploring, gathering materials, punching enemies and crafting things...

There's a reason why the series dropped the mechanic after like the 3rd title, so all the games that came after then (Which totals somewhere around 48 billion... Since JFC is that series popular) have no such timers. Even games within a similar genre of RPG/Crafting sim have eschewed the timers (Games like Harvestella and the Rune Factory series)

These just let you play the game. The only timers being seasons, which change which crops you can grow rather than having any impact on the story or gameplay.

I'm okay with timers in some game structures, but not in an open world game. For some specific missions, sure, especially when it creates an important dilemma for branching endings to the game. But for the overall progress of the main quest in an open world exploration game, never.

 

[CiriusBlack]

Alright, my first impressions basically right after (still in?) the tutorials.

I feel like the timer does create replay value here, a lot. And it really doesn't feel pressuring. I don't hear the "tic tac" in my mind all the time. Now I'm actually curious how this will work storywise.
I don't seem to be a fan of combat, but it might just take time and getting used to. If you enjoyed KCD combat, you probably like this one too?
Met one character, that I really didn't know to expect. Not sure what I was expecting, but not that. Interesting?
Feels very Witchery/Kindom Come Deliverancery.
Just made my first timed choice, which felt kinda meaningless and possibly very important at the same time. Do I want to take this risk, or that one? I think I chose my path forward, but we'll see how long this decision (aca way to choose "my personality") will hold. And even in the middle of a timed task, you seem to have (edit: apparently not quite endless amount of) time to explore. I need to test this more and leave the actual quest area (if I can?) to see how it actually works, but at least in this one, the random exploration does not move the time.

I'm honestly very curious. Opinions are subject to change, when the game progresses more, but so far I'm definitely very curious with all this. And by all, I do mean all of it. Even the timer. And this is coming from the player, who really doesn't like timers in any game/quest/minigame.

Spoiler: Timer explained in game

 

[Taril]

I'm okay with timers in some game structures

As I've noted, I've played a variety of games of different types that feature timers and in none of them I felt the global timer did anything to add value to the game.

The occasional timer put on some specific sections or quests, sure. It adds some urgency to the situation.

But a global timer? Nah. All it really does is lock you out of content (Something that is quite possible to do without a timer, by having conflicting content. Doing X prevents Y and vice versa). Usually in an incredibly frustrating way, especially if it gives you a false sense of security early on, only for you to realise late game that you screwed up by actually using your time inefficiently throughout the game...

I've yet to encounter any benefits from global timers. Especially ones that progress incrementally from you doing things (The "You have X days before Y happens, but days only progress when you specifically end the day and you can do whatever is available during the day" thing is fine. As there's no time pressure, but there's still elements of progression and quasi-urgency)

 

[GrimReaper801]

Well, after reading you, it feels absolutely terrible to me... and I can't imagine to suffer this during the whole game. So yeah like always it's not for everyone of course.
In fact, Blood Of Dawnwalker like Clair Obscur, will fall in the same list of games which seems fantastic but which I can't enjoy because game mechanics

Which is entirely fine!

Not every game is for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that.

For what it's worth, there is a narrative reason why the prologue quests you didn't do get locked out. If anything I personally see them as a reason to re-play the game and see how they affect the prologue.

Once you're out of the prologue though, it's very different. You get plenty of time to do what you'd expect to do in an open world game.

But I understand! If this kind of mechanic is an instant nope, that's all good. I doubt the devs weren't aware it was going to be a controversial feature.

If there is ever an Xbox demo though, give it a try, you may be surprised at how little pressure is felt from the mechanic. At least, as far as I'm concerned.

Out of curiosity, what was the mechanic that turned you off Claire Obscur?

Post automatically merged: Sep 3, 2026

Alright, my first impressions basically right after (still in?) the tutorials.

I feel like the timer does create replay value here, a lot. And it really doesn't feel pressuring. I don't hear the "tic tac" in my mind all the time. Now I'm actually curious how this will work storywise.
I don't seem to be a fan of combat, but it might just take time and getting used to. If you enjoyed KCD combat, you probably like this one too?
Met one character, that I really didn't know to expect. Not sure what I was expecting, but not that. Interesting?
Feels very Witchery/Kindom Come Deliverancery.
Just made my first timed choice, which felt kinda meaningless and possibly very important at the same time. Do I want to take this risk, or that one? I think I chose my path forward, but we'll see how long this decision (aca way to choose "my personality") will hold. And even in the middle of a timed task, you seem to have (edit: apparently not quite endless amount of) time to explore. I need to test this more and leave the actual quest area (if I can?) to see how it actually works, but at least in this one, the random exploration does not move the time.

I'm honestly very curious. Opinions are subject to change, when the game progresses more, but so far I'm definitely very curious with all this. And by all, I do mean all of it. Even the timer. And this is coming from the player, who really doesn't like timers in any game/quest/minigame.

Spoiler: Timer explained in game

View attachment 11434604

The combat is still the only thing I'm worried about.

I think comparing to KCD is both accurate and misleading. It's mechanically the same but much faster paced. Which is my main gripe with KCD, the combat feels sluggish.

This feels a lot more engaging. It's impactful and reactive. It's also very punishing, not just in the sense that enemies hurt. If you get damaged and are down to your first bar of health, you may not be able to control the hunger and end up attacking a friend in a conversation. It happened to me... and FML, I promised myself I wasn't going to save scum. So now I actually feel bad about it.

I haven't gotten to the point where I unlocked much in either forms and I still don't know if the combat is going to grow stale after 25-30 hours into the game.

 

[CiriusBlack]

...you may not be able to control the hunger and end up attacking a friend in a conversation. It happened to me... and FML, I promised myself I wasn't going to save scum. So now I actually feel bad about it.

Been there, done that!

I didn't reload. I wanted it so badly, but I didn't. I knew it could happen and I promised to myself that I would never let it happen. But oh boy the developers were sneaky with this...

I probably never stop feeling bad about it, but I really want to know how the story goes without me trying to manipulate it. Next time I can do things differently I think?

 

[GrimReaper801]

But oh boy the developers were sneaky with this...

Oh yes, yes they were!

Before that moment there were two instances where I spoke with people I meant no harm to with only a single bar of health. Nothing happened. That one bar was fairly full though so I figured the odds must be pretty low. Maybe they go up as that last bar gets lower?

Then I start this conversation. My bar is even fuller than the other times, I figured I didn't have to worry. Then the options slowly disappeared, leaving only the option to give in to the hunger.

Kids were sleeping, all I could do is scream "Noooooooooooooo" internally.

I almost broke and reloaded the autosave from just minutes before. Ended up deleting it to not be tempted

Then about 30 minutes later, something happened that I'm certain would have gone differently had that not happened.

Worst part is the whole thing is entirely on me. I tried being hyper aggressive in combat and throw caution to the wind. Got hit one too many times.

I still regret it a day later.

I'm also loving it.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

If there is ever an Xbox demo though, give it a try, you may be surprised at how little pressure is felt from the mechanic. At least, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah if there is a demo or if the game joins Game Pass, I will give it a shot obviously. But when I see the little capture @CiriusBlack posted about "in-game timer explanation", I already know it will irritate me, badly
For me, it's like pineapple or anchovy on pizza. If there is one of these on a pizza, no matter how top notch the pizza is or even if it's a "three star" pizza... Sure I can take a bite, but already know I won't like it.

Out of curiosity, what was the mechanic that turned you off Claire Obscur?

Mainly enemies spawning system and save/campfire/flag system. It completely kill my fun and desire to explore the areas (in the same way I had to force myself to finish Fallen Order and didn't pass the "prologue" in Survivor).
And on top of that, QTE. This system is an abomination for me, I hate it so bad...
But I gave the game a shot thanks to Game Pass, but didn't see myself spending dozens of hours in it.

 

[Spockprime]

Yeah if there is a demo or if the game joins Game Pass, I will give it a shot obviously. But when I see the little capture @CiriusBlack posted about "in-game timer explanation", I already know it will irritate me, badly
For me, it's like pineapple or anchovy on pizza. If there is one of these on a pizza, no matter how top notch the pizza is or even if it's a "three star" pizza... Sure I can take a bite, but already know I won't like it.

Mainly enemies spawning system and save/campfire/flag system. It completely kill my fun and desire to explore the areas (in the same way I had to force myself to finish Fallen Order and didn't pass the "prologue" in Survivor).
And on top of that, QTE. This system is an abomination for me, I hate it so bad...
But I gave the game a shot thanks to Game Pass, but didn't see myself spending dozens of hours in it.

I'll take timers any day and all day over QTE. QTE is one of the worst things that ever happened to video games. Fortunately for both Claire and Jedi, there are mods that fix it.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah if there is a demo or if the game joins Game Pass, I will give it a shot obviously. But when I see the little capture @CiriusBlack posted about "in-game timer explanation", I already know it will irritate me, badly
For me, it's like pineapple or anchovy on pizza. If there is one of these on a pizza, no matter how top notch the pizza is or even if it's a "three star" pizza... Sure I can take a bite, but already know I won't like it.

Hell yes, I agree with you about pineaple and anchovies on pizza. If I was a religious man, I would inevitably come to the conclusion that putting those on pizza is the devil's work.

Mainly enemies spawning system and save/campfire/flag system. It completely kill my fun and desire to explore the areas (in the same way I had to force myself to finish Fallen Order and didn't pass the "prologue" in Survivor).
And on top of that, QTE. This system is an abomination for me, I hate it so bad...
But I give the game a shot thanks to Game Pass, but didn't see myself spending dozens of hours in the game.

I expected the QTEs, it's the most common reason people don't like the game, but not the campfire system.

Crazy how amazing games can have such divisive mechanics

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Crazy how amazing games can have such divisive mechanics

Yeah and I would say > this is a good! Because otherwise we will all play the same kind of game.

Funny enough, I discussed with a friend of mine who played BG3 for the first time not long ago. And I know he hate looting while I'm a real loot goblin and absolutely love it. On his playthrough, he only picked up important stuffs (unique weapons, scrolls, arrows, bombs, potions, a bit of food) but that all. While on my playthrough(s) I pick up everything which is not nailed, everything! My only limit is the weight (1lbs/kg max). There is absolutely nothing left after I visited an area.

So I'm very interested by what CDPR changed to the loot in TW3 remastered, because for example, I love clearing all the point on Skellige, something I know a lot of people hate

 

[Taril]

QTE is one of the worst things that ever happened to video games.

QTE isn't that bad. It depends a lot on how it's used.

I didn't mind the "QTE" in E33 in terms of using attacks and having to push buttons to maximise damage. Such a thing was reminiscent of Shadow Hearts: Covenant which I love precisely because of a similar system adding depth to the JRPG gameplay that is otherwise "Just mash "Attack" command until beat the game"

Of course Shadow Hearts had an element of rhythm to it, input timings were based on character's attack animation timings. So over the course of the game you'd learn the timing much like an actual rhythm game (To the point were you could use all the fancy modifiers to do it on 5x speed, while not seeing the zones or the line indicating where you are and still land perfects every time). That said, there is a caveat to this, which is if you use something other than a character's attacks/skills (Like a healing item) these also had the same mechanic (Including the same modifiers you're using to boost your regular abilities) but you'd be much less practised at their timing due to using them infrequently.

Other uses of "QTE" systems aren't bad either. Like the Arkham combat system where you react to incoming attacks with a QTE button press (Overall the combat system has flaws, but that's more to do with the lack of engagement from just mashing attack 90% of the time rather than the "QTE" of reacting to incoming attacks)

Really QTE as a system is only bad when used improperly. Such as shoving it into cutscenes (Gosh I don't miss the days when every cutscene had a random QTE 2 minutes into it and missing it meant rewatching the entire thing again...) and other scenarios where inputs are not expected or are superfluous (Or are not particularly clear visually - Tifa's Limit Break in FFVII comes to mind with it's arbitrarily ordered "Slots").

My only qualm with E33's QTE's was the Parry/Dodge system. Simply due to how ridiculously overpowered they are if you are reasonably good at hitting them. For me, someone well versed in parry timings from years of Soulslikes, it kind of overshadowed the entire combat system where it didn't matter what my characters actually did because I just parried everything to death and took 0 damage as a result...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

QTE isn't that bad. It depends a lot on how it's used.

I didn't mind the "QTE" in E33 in terms of using attacks and having to push buttons to maximise damage. Such a thing was reminiscent of Shadow Hearts: Covenant which I love precisely because of a similar system adding depth to the JRPG gameplay that is otherwise "Just mash "Attack" command until beat the game"

Well it's just my opinion of course, but no, QTE are bad, no matter how it's done. No exception.
In E33 it doesn't add deepth other than an annoying and useless game mechanic. The point of turn based combat is not action, it's planification, plan your move, plan your next move or maybe even plan the three move after. When done well, turn based combats are not only "just smashing attack command until beat the game"... It's plan tactics to defeat the enemy you're facing using the tools provided (attacks, defense, buffs, etc...).

That's why I love turn based games, especially cRPGs and one of the reason why I gave up E33 after a couple of hours...
I tried The Beast Of Reincarnation when released and I would say I wasn't into it, but I dropped the game as soon as I saw the QTE prompt for the wolf attack... Nope, I'm done > Uninstalled

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah and I would say > this is a good! Because otherwise we will all play the same kind of game.

100% agreed. It's a good thing that not every game is the same.

The problem, and this is not aimed at anyone, is that a lot of people seem to get bitter when one mechanic they hate is in a game they're really interested in and get somewhat aggressive over it. It's just ridiculous in my opinion.

Clearly not your case though!

Funny enough, I discussed with a friend of mine who played BG3 for the first time not long ago. And I know he hate looting while I'm a real loot goblin and absolutely love it. On his playthrough, he only picked up important stuffs (unique weapons, scrolls, arrows, bombs, potions, a bit of food) but that all. While on my playthrough(s) I pick up everything which is not nailed, everything! My only limit is the weight (1lbs/kg max). There is absolutely nothing left after I visited an area.

Your friend is a blasphemer! What is this nonsense of not picking up everything that's not nailed down. This is morally wrong.

So I'm very interested by what CDPR changed to the loot in TW3 remastered, because for example, I love clearing all the point on Skellige, something I know a lot of people hate

Yeah, I honestly can't wait for the remaster. The TW3 remaster and a new expansion is genuinely one of the best surprises video-game wise in a very, very long time.

In E33 it doesn't add deepth other than an annoying and useless game mechanic.

You're also a blasphemer! E33 is pure perfection!

Obviously not serious, I loved E33 despite not being a fan of QTEs

 

[LeKill3rFou]

100% agreed. It's a good thing that not every game is the same.

The problem, and this is not aimed at anyone, is that a lot of people seem to get bitter when one mechanic they hate is in a game they're really interested in and get somewhat aggressive over it. It's just ridiculous in my opinion.

Clearly not your case though!

No point of complaining about indeed. It's not like if there was no other games to enjoy.
It would be like complaining about one pizza with pinapple on the menu while istead I can simply order another pizza without, one which I will absolutely love
I have a blast replaying DD2 right now, its new DLC arrive in october. Valheim will come in 1.0 version soon and The Witcher 3 remaster will come at the end of the month... I will be busy anyway.

You're also a blasphemer! E33 is pure perfection!

Yep I know...
E33 is in my list of games which are considered almost unanimously as masterpieces I simply can't play. On the other hand, there are many games I absolutely love which are considered almost unanimously as garbage

 

[Taril]

Well it's just my opinion of course, but no, QTE are bad, no matter how it's done. No exception.

Eh... I find QTE's have their place. Especially in action games where things like "Parry" and "Dodge" can count as QTE.

In E33 it doesn't add deepth other than an annoying and useless game mechanic.

It adds some depth by having some skill expression for maximal damage.

Like, you have the base skill. But if you perform the QTE's correctly, you do more damage. If you do them perfectly you get morer damage.

With the entire thing being like your own personal version of experience gain as your character also levels up throughout the game. You will start off being bad at the QTE and so your skills will be the least effective, but as you play more and practice more you get more proficient and your skills do more damage.

It's a kind of dynamic experience beyond "More stats"

When done well, turn based combats are not only "just smashing attack command until beat the game"

Aye, but 99.99% of JRPG's are not "Done well" and they quite literally are "Just mashing "Attack" command until beat the game"

Like, maybe you occasionally will use a skill instead (And just mash that until beat the game... Like FFVII where the optimal thing to do is just spam Quadra-Magic boosted Knights of Round for every action)

Heck, most RPGs, especially TB ones, really don't do things particularly well and will often just be about spamming default attacks - Especially for normal fights (Bosses sometimes require some actual tactics... Emphasis on "Sometimes")

It's why I rather enjoy the times when things are different and it's not mindlessly pressing the confirm button on 10x speed.

Hence enjoying things like Shadow Hearts: Covenant and its ring system, or Octopath Traveller and its Shield/Break system (Although this does have its flaws with getting spammy... Just using skills that deal multi-hits to take out the most shield points per turn instead of default attacks).

Adding in a touch of QTE can keep things engaging, having that extra bonus for performing the inputs keeps the feeling of spam low.

It's plan tactics to defeat the enemy you're facing using the tools provided (attacks, defense, buffs, etc...).

Aye, but most games don't need much more than default attack. I say this as someone who plays games EXCLUSIVELY on the very highest difficulty available.

TRPG's tend to have more tactics involved (As you'd expect given the title TACTICAL Role Playing Game) but even then it mostly amounts to a bit of positioning more than actual ability usage diversity (Which revolves heavily around default attack spam...)

I wish more games would offer better combat design with stuff like skill combos and utility skills being actually not a waste of an action in 99.99% of cases.

Terrinoth: Heroes of Descent was reasonably good about it. Almost every skill was based around comboing with another character's skill. Leading to interesting combat where you tried to mix together skill synergies while exploiting enemy weaknesses (Of course, the limitation was that your characters could only have 2 skills meaning you just spammed the one good synergy over and over...)

 

[LeKill3rFou]

It adds some depth by having some skill expression for maximal damage.

Like, you have the base skill. But if you perform the QTE's correctly, you do more damage. If you do them perfectly you get morer damage.

Just my opinion again which is mine and likely not shared by the majority since how popular E33 is, but sorry, it's terrible, useless and annoying. It have nothing to do in turn based combat. If a game include QTE, I will juste give up, no point to experience something I know I hate. I will play another game instead.
I already have to "transcend" myself to ignore the hacking QTE in ME1 on console with a controller... Luckily, it's only in ME1

 

[MartineDee]

I'll take timers any day and all day over QTE. QTE is one of the worst things that ever happened to video games. Fortunately for both Claire and Jedi, there are mods that fix it.

Eh?

QTE as in when Hitman is brawling? That's easy and simple.
But in some contexts it's just stupid. Don't force it.

 

[Taril]

Just my opinion again which is mine and likely not shared by the majority since how popular E33 is, but sorry, it's terrible, useless and annoying. It have nothing to do in turn based combat. If a game include QTE, I will juste give up, no point to experience something I know I hate.

Ehh... I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

Realistically, "QTE" is just the basic concept of interacting with a game.

An event happens. You press a button in response to that thing.

With varying degrees of "Quickness" required.

Like, take the original video game: Pong. It's technically a QTE to move the paddle in response to seeing where the ball is moving to.

And FPS it's technically a QTE to shoot the bad guy when they appear on the screen.

In a TB RPG it's technically a QTE to give your character a command in response to the enemy.

Rhythm games are literally exclusively QTEs, just sync'd up to music.

Heck, even a walking simulator has "QTE" in terms of you have to adjust what input you make to move your character through the environment.

The base mechanic of "QTE" is just how video games function. The term just got utilised as a buzzword for the particularly terrible implementation around 2010 involving random button presses for no reason during cutscenes (Or entire games based around arbitrary button presses like Heavy Rain)

There's a vast degree of how such interactions go in games. The worst being stuff like insta-fail conditions on strict timings with no warning (I.e. The 2010 cutscene button press fad). While other things are more lenient, with them having little to no consequence for failure (E33 has your skill still go off it's just a bit weaker is all), or having little to no time limit (TB games give you plenty of time to decide your response).

Action games tend to put more emphasis on speed and timing. While strategic games put more emphasis on picking the correct response.

Various games can blend these 2 directions together. RTS games for example are based on timing but also heavily revolve around correct responses. Old school JRPG's with their ATB systems (Active Turn Based) push timing and speed into the equation. Most modern Tower Defence games heavily feature speed and timing with you having active spells or controlling a character to shoot at enemies. Etc.

Modern games like to add in more active interactions to keep players engaged and because well... Video games are an interactive medium, people tend to like to be able to interact with them instead of sitting around watching 13 hours of cutscenes (Glares at MGS2)

 

[Spockprime]

Eh?

QTE as in when Hitman is brawling? That's easy and simple.
But in some contexts it's just stupid. Don't force it.

Okay, there are situations in which it does make sense. I probably overstated the point.

Post automatically merged: Sep 3, 2026

I picked up Dawnwalker now that I can modify the timer in various ways (which I haven't done yet, but as long as I have the option I'm satisfied). I'm not very far into it yet, but it's interesting and well done so far. Combat is frustrating since I'm still learning to read the timing indicators, but I'll eventually adjust. They work just like KCD, but I haven't adjusted to their location yet.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Ehh... I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

Realistically, "QTE" is just the basic concept of interacting with a game.

An event happens. You press a button in response to that thing.

With varying degrees of "Quickness" required.

Like, take the original video game: Pong. It's technically a QTE to move the paddle in response to seeing where the ball is moving to.

And FPS it's technically a QTE to shoot the bad guy when they appear on the screen.

In a TB RPG it's technically a QTE to give your character a command in response to the enemy.

Rhythm games are literally exclusively QTEs, just sync'd up to music.

Heck, even a walking simulator has "QTE" in terms of you have to adjust what input you make to move your character through the environment.

The base mechanic of "QTE" is just how video games function. The term just got utilised as a buzzword for the particularly terrible implementation around 2010 involving random button presses for no reason during cutscenes (Or entire games based around arbitrary button presses like Heavy Rain)

There's a vast degree of how such interactions go in games. The worst being stuff like insta-fail conditions on strict timings with no warning (I.e. The 2010 cutscene button press fad). While other things are more lenient, with them having little to no consequence for failure (E33 has your skill still go off it's just a bit weaker is all), or having little to no time limit (TB games give you plenty of time to decide your response).

Action games tend to put more emphasis on speed and timing. While strategic games put more emphasis on picking the correct response.

Various games can blend these 2 directions together. RTS games for example are based on timing but also heavily revolve around correct responses. Old school JRPG's with their ATB systems (Active Turn Based) push timing and speed into the equation. Most modern Tower Defence games heavily feature speed and timing with you having active spells or controlling a character to shoot at enemies. Etc.

Modern games like to add in more active interactions to keep players engaged and because well... Video games are an interactive medium, people tend to like to be able to interact with them instead of sitting around watching 13 hours of cutscenes (Glares at MGS2)

Yes, if you push the definition of QTE to simply "performing an action on you controller/keyboard depending of what's happening on the screen", every games ever released is pretty a bunch of QTE.
Personally, I talk about QTE I consider as bad, useless and annoying. Here some example below :
- Mass Effect 1 - Hacking mini game (on console)
- Cyberpunk 2077 - Chimera
- Crimson Desert - Arm wrestling
- Beast Of Reincarnation - Wolf attacks
- Expedition 33 - Combats
For me, this kind of stuff is boring and don't add anything to a game. It's just annoying, period.
The majority of people don't mind or even like that and it's fine. But me, I don't and avoid that at all cost to the point to not play a game if it take a major part into the gameplay.

Spoiler

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