What happened to quest design in Cyberpunk 2077?

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Act 1 was great, from Act 2 the (important) choices become less and less.
Yes, that's why it's not a bad game but disappointing one. Act 1 and the prologue mission introduced so many features and choices that had impacts, like the trauma team landing / Max Tec shooting gang members / different outcomes with Meredis. For some reason, to me the whole genre of the game from an RPG changed to an Action Adventure game, becoming more linear. They showed what the game is and could have been in the first parts of the game and stopped delivering.
 
Yep, it's the single biggest disappointment of CP77 for me. And it's the one they can't fix. As opposite to some game systems. It seems, they absurdly underestimated the amount of work needed to be done, because they decided to turn almost any serious conversation into a cutscene. So they couldn't just put two toons against each other, touch up on their facial expressions, lyp sin and body gesture and be done with it.
 
We needed like 20 quests as well made as "The Pick-up" with it's branching paths that affect things later like in "Second Conflict" (those quest names almost sound like a secret message from the devs). Then maybe another 5-10 unique to each life path. As it is now after two play-throughs I feel like there is nothing left to see other than the Street Kid prologue. I don't even feel like messing with the cops and just being goofy in the world because they are still broken. I wish they could have broken the lifepaths up into 3 expansions kinda like starcraft 2 did. Like first we Get CP2077 Nomad style which would be this game but the time spend on corpo and street kid would have gone into making what we have now closer to what it should have been. Then in street kid they add more branches to the quests and since they already have the base map and game complete new mechanics and fleshing out all the empty/illusory floors and inaccessible areas/locked doors. Then by the time they get to Corpo they can add even more mechanics/activities may a whole new resort/casino area. Then maybe a netwatch or voodoo boys version. I would happily pay for all of these. How many people still spend hours a day in skyrim sure there are plenty of map expansion mods but most people spend their time in parts of the map that are almost ten years old. If there is one thing that can be said about CP2077 that is better than Skyrim is it got a much more interesting and populated map.
 
A couple of things.

1. Time. The game had two major descopes. First time was when Witcher 3 was done and the creative lead was replaced. The other was in 2019 when they realized the game would take longer than they previously thought and it was rushed out.

2. Most of the people working on Witcher 3 left. Only 60 people of that team remained.

3. CDPR thought bringing in Keany Reeves would pull the wool over our eyes and not notice the mediocre story and almost near non existent choices in the quests that they advertised would "ripple through the game world".
 
To be fair though getting the best ending in the Witcher 3 relied on making some pretty unintuitive choices, so unintuitive that cdpr gave us a guide in a dialogue with Gaunter'o'dim that was part of a DLC if i'm not mistaken, this has me thinking there is more to discover.
This is the first game of a new IP, cdpr have not made anything like this before and the fact that it holds its own against other games of its kind is pretty impressive.
The witcher being more fleshed out is due to the fact that cdpr spent decades making witcher games and arguably, CP2077 should be compared to the first witcher game and not the sequels.
I'm still banging my head against a brick wall trying to get the main storyline off rails, maybe i'll find something, maybe not but this game is well and truly under my skin.
 
I'm pretty sure all the endings have been found but I also have a feeling/hope V's story will continue with a search for a true cure and our romances/the peralezeses(spelling?)/mr. blue eyes/passion choices carrying over like blood and wine did.
But there is just can not excuse the poor itemization and crafting/equipment systems and all the overlap in the perks/mods/cyberware making each other obsolete and just poor choices.
 
Because they failed to finish this game.
That's the first trouble they met.
All side question have to develop parallel, how can they be logically connected?
 
Almost all the dialog options in cyberpunk 2077 has no meaning/consequences. It gives a little bit of context to the quest/story and that's all, the choices are meaningless. It's really a big let down compare to what was advertise and the quests in The Witcher 3.
In Fact, it's like the team that worked on Cyberpunk 2077 never worked (or learned) on the witcher 3...
 
You can kill Smasher in the prologue :)


> Story wont continue . Need to reload from previous save .
> This explains a lot...I killed him here and couldn't progress anymore and didn't know why. I've been doing every side mission in the egame for 2 weeks, I literally have none left and didn't make it to act 3
 
Well, I tried to replay the Sinnerman quest. Went with Joshua, but didn't talk to him in the car or in the house. Rachel still says I'm a bad influence on Joshua.
Agreed to take money from her, but still went into the cafe - no new scenes, no new dialogue, no new way to continue the quest.

I'm beginning to think that the people who created quests in The Witcher 3 didn't work on Cyberpunk at all.

I also really hope that the developers will see this thread.
 
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Great post. I was really dissapointed when I found out that many times in CP77 there is no difference what you do or say, the quest will play out only in one way and many times even when it gives you a choice, it's illusionary and ends in one way.
It's a big regress compared to the Witcher 3 where choices really mattered. You could have different relationships with ciri, yen and so on depending on your choices. And the legendary Red Baron quest man....

All the quests with River, Kerry, Judy and Panam don't stand a chance against single Red Baron quest in W3.
Seriously, go back and play Witcher 3. Great game, jank as hell. This game once patched up is a much more cohesive game. The design in almost every aspect is a step above Witcher Wild Hunt.

Here's a list. Take off the rose tinted glasses

NPCs are majorly improved, they react to nothing Geralt does in W3. latest patch CP NPC's react a number of ways
Smuggler catches
The graphics, don't even need to go into depth here
3 endings, CP has 7 endings. Which if you actually ROLE play you will get an ending based on your life path
Navigation is W3 is horrible and Roach is absolutely hot garbage. Give me the Kusanagi any day.
Combat is jank as hell and Geralt has a arbitrary animation system which leaves him open most of the time after attacking
CP's builds are far more varied making the actual gameplay very different adding replay value for more than story differences

All the things you listed about CP makes sense. Why would you even be way out in the middle of nowhere
trying to save a Nomad you don't even know unless you actually met Panam?
Why would you hack a computer when you don't even know what you're looking for?
However if you wanna go with changes based on choices. Did you know that very same mission
as a corpo is completely different allowing you to walk straight into the complex without a shot fired?
 
The thing that felt really bizarre to me. Was that, out of all the neglected Lifepath elements. You'd think each one would of had a single mission made for them. When I played Nomad. Which was my first run. I was like: Cool the car mission gave you the option to take it back, give it to the woman. I wonder what the other two LP's get. And they get nothing. Like, WTH happened?
Which if you actually ROLE play you will get an ending based on your life path
If the endings are designed based off the LP's. Than the endings should have been restricted to the LP's. With the sole exceptions Secret and Suicide. Not usable by everyone. Since they are, than all endings must incorporate all LP's in their resolution. I can't play all the LP openings with one character. Who's idea was to allow that with the endings.
 
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Right?! The most depressing thing in Cyberpunk for me. I can get over bugs, bad mechanics and such, but the narrative and quests system was really, really poor for this game and this developer.

I remember meeting Joshua early in the game, and when he was crucified I thought that I did something wrong, missed something or chose wrong lines in dialogue, tried to replay this quest and got the same result. Then I check the guide and understanding that there was no different outcome was kind of shocking.
The same is for almost every quest in game. They linear, they have no decent ending, and most of them just enter-kill-exit shit with no story at all.

I'm currently replaying Witcher 3 and it is almost unbelievable that this is the game from the same developer.
 
Nope, totally disagree, Witcher 3 is diffrent(you have no idea what are you talking about)
I suggest to watch this guy
Cybertrash is not even 1% of what Witcher 3 is, and you wanna know why? because most of the talented people left after the Witcher 3 release
 
Finally got sick of this myself and uninstalled the game, it started to feel like i was painting the firth of forth bridge thinking this bit will be different. But each quest follows the exact rule the previous one did. Mains, Sides Gigs, just bland shades of brown.
 
The thing that felt really bizarre to me. Was that, out of all the neglected Lifepath elements. You'd think each one would of had a single mission made for them. When I played Nomad. Which was my first run. I was like: Cool the car mission gave you the option to take it back, give it to the woman. I wonder what the other two LP's get. And they get nothing. Like, WTH happened?

If the endings are designed based off the LP's. Than the endings should have been restricted to the LP's. With the sole exceptions Secret and Suicide. Not usable by everyone. Since they are, than all endings must incorporate all LP's in their resolution. I can't play all the LP openings with one character. Who's idea was to allow that with the endings.
As corpo you get a dead drop from former colleague, boss is cleaning the house so he decided to try and bring you in for profit. One smack to the face and special corpo quest is over, matter of 30 seconds including the trip and trying to talk him out of it. As always, done in a way to technically tick the promise off.
 
Witcher 3 quest structure is highly compartmentalized - its just very cleverly ordered so you don't see the ways in which it is linear.

For example, Yennefer never meets the Bloody Baron or any of his family, so the Baron's quest, the first meeting with Yen and the second meeting with Yen on Skellige are compartmentalized in location and time to ensure they never run into each other Therefore there is no need to build out contingencies for scenarios where the player does something that would cause both of these characters to meet.

Cyberpunk is different in the sense that the missions are shorter, but much less compartmentalized and there are more little vignettes when you do things "out of order".

For example, if you kill Jotaro before Disasterpiece, you get additional dialogue with Judy, who finds out it was you who did it. It also slightly changes how you find the XBD dealer, because you already know one of his suppliers from The Oh-ho club's computers.

When you are doing recon with Takamura in Gimme Danger, if you joke about him going out for take out pizza, the following morning with the Bakeneko, you can see the pizza boxes on the ground so he actually went and did it! If you don't make the joke, the pizza isn't there.

Johnny also has a surprising amount of reactive dialogue, even in nondescript gigs, which is a real design challenge because hes in your head all the time, so if you do something in a freaky order, his reactive dialogue needs to make sense.

The game is full of little things like that, which I didn't notice until my second playthrough, or some eagle eyed player spotted it, thought it was cool and posted about it.

Both Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk's stories are linear, and they have to be because if you want the big feels, you have to do things in a certain order and build up to it. I like both for different reasons.
 
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As corpo you get a dead drop from former colleague, boss is cleaning the house so he decided to try and bring you in for profit. One smack to the face and special corpo quest is over, matter of 30 seconds including the trip and trying to talk him out of it. As always, done in a way to technically tick the promise off.
And what does street kid get? 10 seconds of working in a store.
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For example, Yennefer never meets the Bloody Baron or any of his family, so the Baron's quest, the first meeting with Yen and the second meeting with Yen on Skellige are compartmentalized in location and time to ensure they never run into each other Therefore there is no need to build out contingencies for scenarios where the player does something that would cause both of these characters to meet.
This is really not the aspect of affecting the world people are talking about. I will always go back this part of the game. CP gives you these choices during the VB mission. Spare/or kill the VB's and Placid. As well as spare/kill Sasquatch. You choose to kill them. Their story ends and are gone. You choose not to kill them. Their story ends and are gone. No branching, continuation of their stories. There's no side mission opened up for Sasquatch. No side story opened up for both of them living, nothing. False choice.
 
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